GYMN-L Digest - 8 Aug 1995 to 9 Aug 1995
There are 15 messages totalling 507 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Qualifiers for Nationals
2. sunday@Stanford (fwd)
3. sorry, but... (2)
4. Gymn: An Electric Forum for Gymnastics is Rated in the Top 5%
5. USA Championships reporters:
6. Bela & Mary Lou's Book
7. TV Note ... Correction
8. USA Laws: Title IX
9. concentration (2)
10. mary lou
11. Teodora (2)
12. Define "Great"
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 22:59:49 -0400
Subject: Re: Qualifiers for Nationals
In a message dated 95-08-08 11:44:42 EDT, Mayland writes:
>David St. Pierre was on the UCLA team during college, always liked his
>gymnastics, but he just never really went anywhere in college. Nice to see
>that he is making a good come-back.
I'm pretty sure he is training and competing for Broadway Gymnastics in S.
California. He is lonely on the US men's team in that he has somewhat
difficult tumbling (double layout, running double front along the side, usual
front passes, tucked full-in).
Date: Tue, 8 Aug 1995 20:07:40 -0700
Subject: sunday@Stanford (fwd)
Traffic delayed my arrival @ Stanford. I entered in the middle of the second
rotation. I was mega pissed.
Worse yet! They were doing 3 events at once !
Now hows a guy gonna watch all that? I didnt even have Z! along to
help me catch scores. Well here went ! (Again I think Pat Tower might
be able to touch up my Names and scores, I KNOW theres boo-boos in it)
When possible I averaged the scores, sometimes I only got 1 or had to
derive it by counting the clicks when they set up the next score.
A couple guys I just could not place, I had to give them nicknames.
8.2 PH Foody
7.9 FX Stein (Berkeley kid, no relation to Josh)
8.3 SR M Booth (Oh hell,, dont u DARE fold on me !)
9.2 FX Sinchoen
8.6 SR J Ellis (WHAT ?!? is the WHOLE Stanford squad gonna take a powder?)
7.1 PH Mamakos (This guys got shoulders & upper arms to die for
you just gotta see him, he walks you just KNOW hes gymnast)
8.5 FX Mason
8.8 SR K Asano (Wait a sec here !
Stanford aint pooping, EVERYBODY's getting nailed!)
9.1 FX Kruse (Clean !)
8.5 PH Dimas (Mr guts returns ! Poor guy fell off the horse & it cost)
9.2 SR J Stein
9.2 PH D St Pierre (Look at the altitude hes got! CLean scissors work!)
8.4 PH Oliver
9.2 FX Bircklebaw (Nice altitude)
8.8 SR Jair (That judge is being NASTY!)
6.8 PH "Stripe" (Blond kid, navy blue tank, white stripe, dont ask about
8.1 SR "Blue" (Same outfit as "stripe", african guy, couldnt place him
Charlie Lake was supposed to show but doesnt look like
7.6 FX "Curly" (White tank w/ american flag on it)
SR G Perry (too much kids running around)
SR "knees" (another african guy, dunno who he is, yellow knee brace,
looks alot like "blue" but sky blue warmup suit,
wasnt wearing my glasses, cant make out facial details,
again kids running about interfered with getting scores)
9.1 FX M Booth (OK, low but better...)
8.9 PH Larson (Arizona ? do they still HAVE a program ?)
8.2 SR Foody
8.9 FX J Ellis (he bounces a couple times)
7.5 PH Stein-Berkeley
8.8 SR Mamakos
8.8 PH Sinchoen
9.0 FX K Asano
8.6 SR Dimas
8.3 SR D St Pierre
9.1 PH Mason
9.5 FX J Stein (It dont get any better. Clean execution, extra difficult)
8.0 FX J Lynch (I think he hurting)
8.9 PH Kruse
8.9 SR "purple" (same uniform as Foody)
9.2 PH Bircklebaw
9.5 PH Bertram
8.8 SR Oliver
8.2 FX "knees"
8.1 PH "curly"
8.8 SR "stripe" (the rings would not stand still for him)
FX Wiley (Dratted kids made me miss the flash)
FX "Freddy" (somebody called him freddy again more kids/bad flashing)
6.4 PH "red" (burgundy shirt, also from arizona, unfortunate routine)
8.4 SR dunno who this was
8.6 VT Mamakos
8.5 HB Stein-Berkeley
9.2 PB Ellis
8.3 VT Dimas
9.1 PB K Asano
9.2 HB Sinchoen
9.4 PB J Stein
9.5 VT D St Pierre
9.4 PB J Lynch
8.8 VT Oliver
8.6 HB Mason
8.9 VT "Stripe"
8.9 VT "Knee"
8.5 VT Foody
9.65 HB Kruse (Nice & clean, som added difficulty too)
9.3 HB Bircklbaw
7.8 HB "blue"
7.4 VT "Curly"
9.1 PB "Freddie"
5.3 HB "Red" (Poor guy had a lousy meet, but put up a great fight anyways)
9.1 PB Wiley
9.1 PB Booth (Disapointed not to see some of the old "Booth magic" from
Marks frosh year, but hey, hes holding together better)
8.8 HB Larson
9.4 VT Sinchoen (Almost stuck it, better than most)
8.1 HB K Asano
PB T Dimas (Damn ! I missed !)
8.7 VT Mason
9.6 HB J Stein
VT Kruse (Missed score)
8.2 VT Bircklbaw
PB D St Pierre (I was real pissed that I missed that score)
8.0 VT "Red" (only decent score he got all day, I'd have been so pissed
I'd have bailed. Real sportsman, finishing what sttarted)
8.7 HB J Lynch
8.4 PB Oliver
8.9 VT Larson
8.0 PB "Stripe"
8.9 HB "Knee"
8.6 PB "blue"
8.5 PB Foody
8.1 HB "Freddie"
9.55 HB Wiley (WTF did you DO? "Stalder Leonev"? Incredible!)
7.8 PB Mamakos
9.35 HB M Booth
You could tell that everyone was getting punchy, by now.
9.5 VT J Stein
9.2 HB D St Pierre (Even poor David was starting to look fatigued)
9.2 PB Mason
8.2 VT J Lynch
9.0 HB Oliver
9.2 PB Kruse
8.8 VT "Knee"
8.6 HB "stripe"
8.8 PB Bircklebaw
VT "Freddie" (missed score, kids getting REALLY antsy)
PB "Curly" (missed score, kids getting REALLY antsy)
8.6 HB "blue"
9.6 VT Wiley
7.8 PB "red"
8.7 VT M Booth (Tain't funny Mc Gee!)
8.9 PB Larson
8.7 VT Ellis
8.85 HB Foody
8.3 VY K Asano
8.4 PB Stein-Berkeley
8.4 HB Mamakos
9.1 PB Sinchoen
9.75 HB T Dimas (This is what I was expecting!)
Sportsmen of the weekend were Dimas & "Red" in my opinion.
Trent came back from that hard hit on PB on Sat and somehow managed to
keep a poker face through it all, and managed to finish what he started.
"Red Showed a similar courage, to give it his all, not give up, not quit,
and not look pissed off at his scores. He and his buddy Larson headed off
to their car looking like they both won.
Mark Booth held together better than I have seen him in a long time.
Dave St Pierre showed that "When you are over the hill, you pick up speed"
I hope I get to see more of that "oldtimer" !
They said final scores would be out Monday.
Since then finals have already been posted to the net.
I bade farewell to friends & aquaintences and headed out.
On the way back to the car, I checked on Dave J's wolf and found his
water dish over turned. Dave calls him a dog, but I think hes pretty pure
wolf. (I TOLD you I work for a mad man!
God love him, his invitation was the cure I needed for the blues!)
Turns out Tim Dalyrimple decided not to go out for nationals this year.
Hes been down with a pretty ugly virus lately anyways.
I STILL dont know where the Sam Hill Mr Manson was ?!?
"I LOVE the smell of chalkdust in the air....
It smells like VICTORY!" --Texx
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 20:21:06 EST-11
Subject: sorry, but...
Mary Lou wasn't a great gymnast. She was just lucky to be in the
right place at the right time.
I know the majority of people on this forum are American but I am
entitled to my opinion. And my opinion was that she was overscored.
Sure, it was a great vault, but the floor exercise???????
Watch it closely and see how well she disguises those hops foward.
Olga Mostepanova is probably the most ripped off gymnast in history.
You know, until I started subscribing to this forum I never met
anyone who liked Mary Lou gymnastics.
Exercising my right to freedom of speech, Simone
PS Flame if you like, this is a discussion group after all.
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 04:39:56 -0600
Subject: Gymn: An Electric Forum for Gymnastics is Rated in the Top 5%
I got the following note yesterday. Pretty cool -- I'm amazed that
we're up there with hardly any graphics!...:
| Your home page has been rated among the top 5% of all sites on the Internet
| by Point Survey.
| Point is a free service which rates and reviews only the best sites on the
| World Wide Web. We provide surfers with a standard of excellence: a
| catalog of the most lively, useful, and fun sites on the Net. If you
| haven't already seen Point, you can visit us at:
| ... Our ratings are based
| solely on merit as judged by our users and reviewers....
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 04:45:45 -0600
Subject: USA Championships reporters:
Just a note to let you know that Debbie and I will be the Gymn
reporters at USA Championships. Any pressing questions or special
interview requests should be submitted to me (we'll see what we can
do). Scores and brief highlights will be posted nightly to Gymn and
the WWW; at the conclusion of the competition will be the more
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 13:34:56 -0400
Subject: Bela & Mary Lou's Book
Mary Lou and Bela's book is "Mary Lou: Creating An Olympic Champion"
It is Written by Mary Lou Retton and Bela Karolyi with John Powers It was
published by McGraw-Hill Book Company in 1986.
"Winning the Gold" written by Bart Conner with Paul Ziert Published by
Warner Books in 1985
"Nadia" Written by Nadia Comaneci with Graham Buxton Smither Published
by Proteus Books in 1981
"Mary Lou Retton" Written By Gorge Sullivan Published by
Wanderer Books in 1985
"Olga Korbut: Olympic Gold!"Written By Wayne Coffey Published by
Blackbrich Press, Inc. in 1992
"Nadia Comaneci" Written by Gloria D. Miklowitz Published by Temo Books
I Found this Info in the back of KIm's Book
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 13:55:17 -0400
Subject: TV Note ... Correction
Let's see I got the times a bit wrong last time ...
NBC will air the US National Championships on Saturday August 19th from 8-9
PM EDT/PDT (W AA) and Sunday August 20th from 7-9 PM EDT/PDT (W EF).
It's the only time during the year that a network will air gymnastics in
prime time and last year I think it finished below a re-run of a Bob Hope
special in the ratings so you'd better watch. :-)
It's also the last time before Worlds (mid-October) that gymnastics will be
on network TV (I think ESPN may air Trials in Sept.).
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 14:28:08 -0400
Subject: Re: USA Laws: Title IX
>A couple of questions:
>1. Where is the funding coming from and what is it intended for (I'm
>assuming NCAA atletics, but the way the US Congress works it could be
Funding is from the Federal Government.
>2. How will this affect Title IX women's sports?
The idea of this bill is to have the quota system being interpreted
removed, that it becomes on a need basis, instead of a numbers basis. In
theory it should define the needs of sports, so that a sport like
gymnastics, men or women, wil receive the funding that it needs, and that
both sports have an opportunity to exist and one can't be cut for another.
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 14:26:52 -0500
I have a daughter who is 14 and will be a Level 7 this coming year. She
get pretty good scores and enjoys herself up until March when the push for
state starts and when state comes around she is so nervous that it becomes
her worst meet. She usually qualifies her first or second meet so the
psychological aspect of qualifing is not there. Are there any videos or
books available that she could learn to avoid her nervousness and to start
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 13:22:36 -0700
Subject: Re: sorry, but...
>Mary Lou wasn't a great gymnast. She was just lucky to be in the
>right place at the right time.
>I know the majority of people on this forum are American but I am
>entitled to my opinion. And my opinion was that she was overscored.
>Sure, it was a great vault, but the floor exercise???????
I agree! I believe someone mentioned earlier, what is an Olympics without
the Soviets and East European countries (excluding Romania). It certainly
can not be a true show of the best! Mary Lou may have been good but far from
the best. If it had been a true Olympics and it had not taken place in her
home country, she would probably have remained relatively unknown.
P.S. Just so you don't think I'm being biased...the same applies to the
Moscow 1980 Olympics.
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 16:09:10 -0700
Subject: mary lou
I think that the issue of the quality of a win at a
boycotted Olympics has been beaten to death especially
as it applies to Mary Lou. I just feel sad that, at times,
athletes are unable to compete in the Olympics because of
how about, we change the to topic to an all-time favorite
list of female gymnasts and possibly why they are your favorite?
(i am sure that some won't have Mary Lou on their list and some will.)
My favorite is Olga Korbut. She introduced some really cool
and really difficult tricks that had never been done before.
wish I had a tape of her performance...
(human memory is a VERY faulty storage device!)
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 16:09:39 -0700
Subject: Re: concentration
> I have a daughter who is 14 and will be a Level 7 this coming year. She
> get pretty good scores and enjoys herself up until March when the push for
> state starts and when state comes around she is so nervous that it becomes
> her worst meet. She usually qualifies her first or second meet so the
> psychological aspect of qualifing is not there. Are there any videos or
> books available that she could learn to avoid her nervousness and to start
> looking within.
The answer is NOT "tai chi" but rather that is a tool with which to find the
Find a GOOD program. I prefer Shao Lin myself, but interview the sensei
and see who is the best master under whom to study.
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 21:09:16 -0400
Last I heard Teodora Ungureanu was coaching at American Gymnastics in
Bedford Hills, NY. I know a husband and wife who coach there too, and they say
Teodora is very happy and a really friendly person. If anyone wants to send fan
mail, I have the full address of the gym. I bet she'd be tickled to get letters
from fans who appreciated her gymnastics and easy-going demeanor. I always felt
bad for her having to be in Nadia's shadow all the time... She was definitely a
great gymnast! :)
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 21:12:12 -0400
Subject: Define "Great"
Someone on here wrote that Mary Lou was not a "great" gymnast.
Tell me, what defines a "great" gymnast?
Just curious. It should be interesting to see how folks interpret that.
I, personally, believe Mary Lou was a great gymnast because she not only
had world class routines but also added that special "something," which in
her case was her personality and charisma.
Gymnastics is very much a subjective sport, and that charisma carried her
part of the way.
Is she any less of a gymnast because of that?
I don't think so.
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 1995 18:55:10 -0700
Subject: Re: Teodora
> Last I heard Teodora Ungureanu was coaching at American Gymnastics in
>Bedford Hills, NY. If anyone wants to send fan mail, I have the full
address of the gym. I bet she'd be tickled to get letters
>from fans who appreciated her gymnastics and easy-going demeanor.
What is the address? I would love to know.
End of GYMN-L Digest - 8 Aug 1995 to 9 Aug 1995