GYMN-L Digest - 8 Jul 1996 - Special issue

There are 20 messages totalling 602 lines in this issue.

Topics in this special issue:

  2. Moceanu's tumbling, and spring-loaded legs
  3. direction in compulsories
  4. Ivankov
  5. Woops!
  6. Caffeine
  7. Predictions
  8. Olympics- Ivankov Out
  9. Womens Euros and other stuff...
 10. Survey
 11. Picks
 12. Comments on USAIGC's  (LONG)
 13. Rythmic Gymnastics
 14. Elfie
 15. Handedness and turns
 16. U.S. Team in event finals past
 17. WAG/Amanar's FX SV
 18. Fabrichnova, UKR teams and other things
 19. Final questions and comments on US trials
 20. email me please


Date:    Mon, 8 Jul 1996 10:45:32 -0500

Chris asks:

>        How do gymnasts qualify for the all-around from the team competition
>if not every athlete does every routine?  Will the only athletes eligible to
>compete in the AA be ones who compete every single apparatus in the team
>event? The 7-6-5 rule should allow some athletes not to compete in some
>events, which should make rules for qualification more complex.  I think I
>have that right.  Any information would be appreciated.  Thanx in advance.

In order to qualify to the AA, a gymnast must compete all events, both
compulsory and optional.  This means that many gymnasts will compete in the
team event knowing they can't possibly make it to AA finals, even with all
10.0s.  It also means that coaches will have to balance the importance of
the team medal against the importance of individual AA medals when choosing
which gymnasts to compete on what events.


Date:    Mon, 8 Jul 1996 10:45:40 -0500
Subject: Moceanu's tumbling, and spring-loaded legs

I've never see Moceanu perform any of the more difficult tumbling I hear
she can do.  What exactly is she able to perform?  Has anyone out there
seen her double layout?  Her double front?  How are they?

Moceanu is mighty springy, and remembering that got me about other springy
gymnasts.  Among the women, Chusovitina strikes me as the springiest around
currently.  As I recall, Dianne Durham had amazing height on her tumbling.
As for men, does anyone else remember Ron Galimore?  I have _never_ seen
springier legs.  I wonder what his tumbling would look like to me today,
now that I've seen far more difficult skills being performed.


Date:    Mon, 8 Jul 1996 10:45:36 -0500
Subject: direction in compulsories

When I was competing, I remember that I'd walk into a new gym and instantly
know where I wanted to mount the beam and where I wanted to start my fx
routine.  I have no idea how I knew, or what my decisions were based on,
but one direction would feel right and the others would all feel wrong.

Has it always been true that elite gymnasts can decide on the directions of
turns and various elements in their routines?  I never competed elite, but
the last Class I (equivalent of level 10, for those of you who don't
remember) beam routine I competed was set up to insure that everyone had to
do some elements in what was probably their less favored direction.  It was
actually kind of good for me because I was never a consistent enough righty
or lefty, so it was nice to see other gymnasts have the same problems I'd
always had.  Still, it meant I had to do a wrong-leg split leap and a wrong
direction handstand pirouette--not hard skills, but skills I had to
remaster because I'd never bothered to learn them in the wrong direction.

I would have _loved_ to choose my direction on each skill separately.


Date:    Mon, 8 Jul 1996 11:11:30 -0400
From:    ***@YORKU.CA
Subject: Ivankov

        According to the Cetate internet gymnastics magazine, 1994 World
Champion and two time defending European champion Ivan Ivankov of Belarus
will not be able to compete in Atlanta after rupturing his achilles tendon
during training in Charlotte :-(  Very sad news indeed........


Date:    Mon, 8 Jul 1996 12:57:00 EDT
From:    ***@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
Subject: Woops!

Oh boy.  What a typo.  I just read my post about Kathy Johnson's comment
during Euro's and what I meant to say was she had the GUTS to say it,
not the guys to say it.  Boy am I stupid.  Just to clarify...

:) Joy (blushing)


Date:    Mon, 8 Jul 1996 10:04:12 -0700
From:    ***@SEATTLEU.EDU
Subject: Caffeine

Somebody wrote that Dom M had 5(!) cokes during the optionals at Trials.
Has anyone else ever heard that caffeine "sucks" calcium out of a
person's body?  I would think that this would be bad for the healing of
her leg.  Please write if you know anything about this.
Corrie :)


Date:    Mon, 8 Jul 1996 12:06:07 -0600
Subject: Re: Predictions

This is fun, but I am sure the final results will be nothing like this.
Here goes (only for WAG, as I don't know much about the men):

1.  Which three teams, in your opinion, will win the medals in Atlanta
     (in order)?

        1.  China
        2.  United States
        3.  Romania
        4.  Russia
        5.  France

2.  Which ten gymnasts would you expect to place in the top ten in the

        1.  Mo Huilan
        2.  Lilia  Podkopayeva
        3.  Svetlana Boginskaya
        4.  Shannon Miller
        5.  Dominique Dawes
        6.  Lavinia Milosovici
        7.  Alexandra Marinescu
        8.  Svetlana Khorkina
        9.  Roza Galieva
        10. umm . . .  maybe Piskoun, or Moceanu if healthy, or Strug?  or
Gogean if she has really recovered from the surgery (if not then
Marinescu), or Amanar who I just don't like much.  This field is SO deep.
It is going to be so exciting to watch.

The above aren't really in order except for the first two, who I do think
will medal.  The bronze is just a toss up for the rest of the field.

3.  Who do you think will place in the top three for each of the four
     event finals?

I just don't know.  Gogean if healthy, but who knows about that?  I've seen
Huilan vault well in the past, but haven't seen her recently (not since 95
worlds).  Pod usually hits her vaults, but the second one is out of 9.9.
Khorkina could medal if she sticks.  I would pick Chusovitina but the
judges never score her fairly.  Piskoun ought to be a contender.  Amanar
will probably medal but I just hate her piked second vault that she gets
full credit on.

1.  Khorkina
2.  Huilan
3.  Dawes or Piskoun or Miller or Pod

1.  Boginskaya (sentimental favorite for me, although I doubt she'll win)
2.  Kochetkova
3.  Huilan or Marinescu

1.  Pod
2.  Miller
3.  Kui Yuanyuan

I know I should have a Romanian in there, but I just can't handle the lack
of choreography and I'm betting that Gogean will not be full strength.

4.  Who are your three (or more??) favourite "elite" gymnasts a) of all
time, and b) presently competing.

a)  Boginskaya, Nadia, most of the old Soviets with perfect form and great
choreography, Dobre too
b)  Bogi, Pod, Khorkina, and Huilan

I'd be interested in feedback.  If you try to do this yourself, I think you
will find it very difficult.  There are so many amazing gymnasts now.  I
remember back to previous Olympics where you could easily pick out who
would/should medal it they hit.  In 76, it was all Nadia and Nelli Kim, in
84 all Retton and Szabo, in 88, all Silivas and Shushunova.  In 92, there
were more contenders, but still far fewer than today.  With the improvement
by China, France, and the US as well as the breakup of the Soviet Union
allowing great entrants from BLR, UKR, and Russia, the number of really
great gymnasts has just exploded.
Jill Conway (
UIUC College of Medicine


Date:    Mon, 8 Jul 1996 13:38:24 -0400
From:    ***@CYBERNEX.NET
Subject: Olympics- Ivankov Out

        According to Cetate World Gymnastics Ivan Ivankov will not be able
to compete in Atlanta because he "tore up his achilles tendon in preperation
for the games in Charlotte."  Its a shame because he could have won several
medals in Atlanta.

        In my local newspaper there was a short article about the Romanian
womens team.  Apparently they left for Atlanta yesterday.  It had a short
quote from both Milosovici, and Gogean so I assume they will be competing.



Date:    Mon, 8 Jul 1996 10:48:58 +0100
From:    ***@ASUCLA.UCLA.EDU
Subject: Womens Euros and other stuff...

I'm so glad I got to see Dina K.'s  sleepwalking FX performance AGAIN rather
than Joana Juarez's lyrical spanish performance. My favorite part of Dinas
FX is right before her last pass when the music is going crazy and she is
staring blankly into space.  You can't teach that.

A note to all those folks out there that are getting all bent out of shape
because people have opinions that don't agree with theirs.... GET OVER IT!

These are the same people who resort to name calling and making statements
like "Dont post that garbage" or whatever.  I guess as long as you agree
with them its ok..

You need to separate the person from the gymnast..Kevin Costner might be a
nice guy and he might read to the blind in  his spare time and he might have
done the AIDS ride and all that, but I think he's a horrible actor, and I'll
say so.  I have that right.  The same goes with gymnastics...  Amy Chow
might be a cool kid but she has all the fluidity of a bad Level 6.. This is
solely a statement about her gymnastics, not about her personally.



Date:    Mon, 8 Jul 1996 12:00:21 -0700
From:    ***@NETCOM.COM
Subject: Survey

Here's the first paragraph of an article I found in one of the clari.

>   GREENWICH, Conn.--(BW SportsWire)--July 8, 1996--Synchronized
>swimming, rhythmic gymnastics, beach volleyball and sailboarding
>(commonly known as "windsurfing") should be dropped from the Summer
>Olympics, according to the results of a nationwide media survey
>sponsored by The Northwestern Mutual Life Insurance Company.
>   The survey of sports editors, columnists, writers, sportscasters
>and commentators

RSG ranked third in negative reaction (57%), behind sailboarding (69%) and
synchro. swimming (63%).  Those being surveyed said the sport they'd most
like to see added to the Olympics was golf [ugh!...apologies to those who
like golf].



Date:    Mon, 8 Jul 1996 14:04:40 -0700
From:    ***@IX.NETCOM.COM
Subject: Picks

>>1.  Which three teams, in your opinion, will win the medals in
>>     (in order)?

               1. Romania or USA(you have to admit, we have a teriffic
               2. China
               3. Russia

>>2.  Which ten gymnasts would you expect to place in the top ten in
>>      all-around?

                        NO PARTICULAR ORDER!!

            1. Shannon Miller
            2. Dom Dawes
            3. Milo
            4. Pods
            5. Moceanu
            6. Gogean
            7. Bogi
            8. Marinescu
            9. Dina K.
            10. Korhina

>>3.  Who do you think will place in the top three for each of the
>>     event  finals?
>        VAULT           UNEVEN BARS       BEAM            FLOOR
>        -----------     ------------     -------------
        1. Amanar        1. Dawes           1. Mo           1. Miller
            2. Strug     2. Mo(any Chienese)2. Dina         2. Mo
        3. Mo            3. Korhina         3. Moceanu      3. Borden
>>4.  Who are your three favourite "elite" gymnasts a) of all time, and
>> presently competing.

                        A.) KIM ZMESKAL
                        B.) Kerri Strug, Amanda Borden
                   (B was hard. I have a lot of respect for all of the
athletes who are competing today. I like them all!!!!)



Date:    Mon, 8 Jul 1996 17:07:21 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Comments on USAIGC's  (LONG)

Hi to all,

I just watched USAIGC's on tv, and I wanted to add some comment----

Gymstrada, IMO, looked excellent. Alexis Brion's floor impressed me, (double
layout, OVER ROTATED)  and not just the tumbling, but the dance was much
improved over last year. Her interview afterwards, was great, although who
ever was interviewing her got annoying, fast.  Katie McFarland's vault,
Yurchenko 1 1/2, impressed me, even though she sat it down. Cory Fritzinger's
9.9 on bars was well deserved. When's the last time you've seen an
international competition where a gymnast has thrown a front giant full,
double front combo?? The other Gymstrada gymnast, (name escapes me) gets the
credit for hitting beam when it counts most, after 2 previous falls from

Gymcarolina gets the choreography award. Each gymnast's beam and floor were
unique, and interesting. It was nice to see 11 year old Micha Gross dance to
the fullest, with mature, but fun, choreography. On beam, the whole team was
fun to watch.  I have seen this team in the past, and every gymnast, down to
their level 8's, have the same quality to their dance. It's nice to see.

American Twisters, looked to me, to be much improved over last year. Susie
Kinkaid's (spelling?) vault, Yami-double full, was incredible, along with
Morgan White's bars--(did she do *3* healys into her counterswing-handstand?)
The form was great, and she's an amazing swinger.  For only 12, her calmness
during the interview afterwards was impressive, although she must of said
"thank you" to the interviewer 100 times. Shannon Watt's double twisting
front was one of the best that I've ever seen, and I do believe that the last
leap she did (switch side with an extra 1/2 twist) is named after her, at
least in the JO Code of points. Can any judges confirm this?? Mary Moore's
beam was also good. She really showed off her flexibility (gotta love the
planche at the beginning) and her switch side shushanova was really well
done. I think some elite gymnasts need to take a look at her sheep jump. This
is how it is suspossed to be done, with your feet above *head* height.

Capital also looked well-trained. It's nice to see Gail Kachura back in
action, along with some other very talented teammates.  Little Monique Chang
(who won US Classic) reminded me of a young Mina Kim on floor. Presice,

Stephane Carter, of Ricochets (spelling?) threw a full *out* on floor.  Too
bad she missed her other 2 passes.  She also did a full out off bars, and a
tucked Yurchenko full vault.

Well, the above is JMO, and since I'm only 14, don't expect perfection...I'm
NOT Nadia...    Anyway, I hope I provided some insight for those who didn't
see the competition.

Onto Atlanta....



Date:    Mon, 8 Jul 1996 17:26:41 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Rythmic Gymnastics

Do rythmic gymnasts do any tumbling in their routines?  If they don't it
would seem pretty boring(no offense or anything to all those rythmic gymnasts
out there) to me.

BTW,  what do IMO and IMHO stand for?



Date:    Mon, 8 Jul 1996 18:15:17 -0400
From:    ***@KENT.NET
Subject: Re: Elfie

>Elfi Schlegel is a former gymnast from Canada. I believe she was
>nationals champion at least one year, though I may be wrong, and
>was featured in "The Yong Gymnasts," by Lyn Moran, along with Karen
>Kelsall and Monica Goermann.
You're right.  Elfi commentated for CBC for many years.  She did
gymnastics and also assorted other sports like freestyle skiing.
She probably won Canadians for several years; I don't really know
what her accomplishments were.  She is always mentioned
as one of the Canadian "greats".



Date:    Mon, 8 Jul 1996 18:15:19 -0400
From:    ***@KENT.NET
Subject: Re: Handedness and turns

Grace wrote:
>BTW, I still am not convinced that handedness has anything to do with
>turning direction.
I agree.  I am right handed, but in ballet we have to do turns in either
direction.  Sometimes my left turns are better, sometimes my
right turns are better, and sometimes both are good!  Most
dancers seem to have one side that they favour more than
the other, but it doesn't correspond with handedness that much.

What about cartwheels?  I'm right handed and I always
did them the "leftie" way (left hand goes down first).



Date:    Mon, 8 Jul 1996 18:18:56 -0400
Subject: Re: U.S. Team in event finals past

She also made the finals in 95, and chose not to compete

> Kerri Strug made vault finals at both the 1992 and 1993 Worlds.


Date:    Mon, 8 Jul 1996 15:58:32 +0000
From:    ***@IGC.APC.ORG
Subject: WAG/Amanar's FX SV

Someone mentioned that Simona Amanar's FX routine
in the event finals at Europeans had a start value of 9.8.
Is that her usual FX routine, or did she leave something
out? I would be surprised if she went to the Olympics with
only a 9.8 routine--she seems capable of enormous difficulty.

Let's talk Romanians, btw.  What lineup?  Marinescu
was the flavor of the month not long ago; is Amanar
going to steal the day, peaking just in time for Atlanta?
Or will Milo and Gogean once more get the high scores with
their boring routines (my opinion, my opinion....)?  (I'm
not a fan of Gogean's style, but if she's recovered in time
for the Olympics, good for her).

--Mary Lynne


Date:    Mon, 8 Jul 1996 19:31:24 -0400
Subject: Fabrichnova, UKR teams and other things

     I was fortunate enough to attend the Ukrainian team's
exhibition/intrasquad meet yesterday (it was open to the public, though not
particularly well publicized). The men performed only exhibition routines, and
Korobchinsky and Misyutin did not take part at all. But I saw Korobchinsky
train, and he is a living miracle! After rupturing his Achilles just last
November, he has made the most remarkable recovery I have EVER seen. His
opening pass on floor is a full-twisting double layout and he ends with a
double layout. He was also practicing handspring double front vaults. I didn't
think this was even possible only 8 months after an Achilles injury. He is VERY
motivated and wants so much to compete AA in Atlanta. I hope he gets his
chance! Misyutin looks completely unmotivated, but is still strong on floor
(again, I am basing this on what little I saw of him training, since he was not
at the intrasquad). He will do at most 4 events (floor, pommels, rings and
MAYBE vault). The rest of the men looked good: Sharipov, Svetlichny, Kosyak,
Yermakov and Shamenko. Stepanchenko was there, but unless someone gets injured
will surely be heading back to Kiev soon (as with Russia, the 8th gymnast is
getting sent home). I THINK the gymnasts doing all events and, thus, trying for
AA are Svetlichny, Sharipov, Korobchinsky and Shamenko.
     The girls currently in the States are Lilia Podkopayeva, Viktoria
Karpenko, Anna Mirgorodskaya, Lyubov Sheremeta, Svetlana Zelepukina, Yelena
Shapornaya, Olga Teslenko and Oksana Knizhnik. The general consensus seems to
be that Knizhnik is No. 8 and will not be in Atlanta, which is a shame. She
looked quite good at the intrasquad, although she did not do bars. Karpenko had
to sit out the meet with a pulled hamstring, but I doubt she'll be replaced
unless this injury is REALLY bad, and I don't think it is. Shapornaya has a
foot injury, but performed beautifully. Just from what I saw, I would make
Zelepukina the alternate and send Knizhnik to Atlanta, but there is evidently a
lot of politicking going on here, very much like the US it seems. Lilia fans
will be pleased to know that she looks to be in great shape, although seemed
not to be pleased with her performances. But her legs were completely together
on her Gienger! :)  Let's hope she can do the same in Atlanta. Mirgorodskaya
looks 100 times better than she did in Puerto Rico and Birmingham - slimmer,
more motivated, more emotion in her dance. And her bars are still amazing.
Sheremeta also looks very crisp and clean, but might be denied a slot in AA
because of being kept out of a compulsory event (I HATE this 7-6-5 rule...)
     I was talking to Sheremeta's coach, and she said Arkayev changed his mind
and sent Fabrichnova to the US for Russia's training camp. :) I assume this is
reliable information (Sheremeta's coach said she spoke to a Russian coach after
the team had arrived in the US). The other girl "on the bubble" is Dolgopolova.
So perhaps Fabrichnova will be in Atlanta after all - I hope so!! I asked about
the men, but the UKR coach didn't know which 8 made the trip here from Russia.
     There were various rumors going around about Belarus, the main ones being
that they have nowhere to train in the US and were still at home as of July 3.
But the worst news, if it is true, is that Ivan Ivankov popped his Achilles and
will not be in Atlanta at all. A lot of this info is word-of-mouth, so I'm not
sure how accurate it is, but the sources seemed reliable (Slavic coaches).
Well, we'll know soon enough...



Date:    Mon, 8 Jul 1996 20:09:27 EDT
Subject: Final questions and comments on US trials

Hello to all,

Just a few simple comments and questions in regards to the US Olympic Trials.

1. What exactly is a Phelps? Is it a half-twist on; back layout with a

2. What is the purpose of the chalk markings on the side of a balance beam? I
saw this at Trials and noticed it before. Are they for the benefit of the
gymnast or the judges?

3. Mary Beth Arnold's beam routine actually resembled a floor routine IMO. It
was nice to watch.

4. A. Maloney's FX music was *Sweet Georgia Brown* except for a small portion in
the middle of the routine. Anyone know what the other piece was? *Georgia on my
Mind* perhaps?


Good luck to all competitors in Atlanta.


Date:    Sun, 7 Jul 1996 15:07:00 -0600
Subject: email me please

          Leonie Hadzic, could you please email me? I want to write
          back to you but dont have your address.




End of GYMN-L Digest - 8 Jul 1996 - Special issue