GYMN-L Digest - 5 Sep 1995 to 6 Sep 1995

There are 17 messages totalling 740 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. '95 Intl. Jr. Champs. (2)
  2. Ginger -- er... Geinger?
  3. This TV height & weight thing (3)
  4. Axels/RE: Katy Maty (2)
  5. scholar,Utah&UCLA,visualiz
  6. they do look taller on TV
  7. USAG Video List Update
  8. Fwd: USAG-Order-Form
  9. USAG Videos
 10. Atlanta Invitational.
 11. Floor routines and choreography, NCAA difficulty
 12. Lisa Moro on 'Today'
 13. Floor routines and choreography, NCAA difficiculty


Date:    Wed, 6 Sep 1995 01:25:47 -0400
Subject: Re: '95 Intl. Jr. Champs.

>1995 Intl. Junior Champs.
>August 30-31, 1995
>Yokohama, Japan
>8. Jamie Dantzscher (JPN)    9.562 9.125 8.675 9.500   36.862

JPN???  What?  They didn't have enough girls on their team?  ;^)


Date:    Wed, 6 Sep 1995 01:37:50 -0400
Subject: Re: Ginger -- er... Geinger?

Kathy Hennis asked about the difference between a "ginger and a piked ginger".
Could this be a Geinger (flyaway half regrasp)?  Elfi Schlegel pronounces it
the German way, so it sounds different than it is spelled.  But, yes, a layout*
Geinger is much more awesome than a piked one, especially on men's high bar.
I would think the piked version should be lower in value or devalued, but I
don't have a recent Code of Points.

* Now -- should that be "layed out" or "laid out"  or "layout"?  Never could
get that one straight (sorry, bad pun)  8^)



Date:    Wed, 6 Sep 1995 02:21:25 -0400
Subject: This TV height & weight thing

Apologies for having lost the top of this thread but...

Having just watched my 8th straight day of U.S. Open Tennis (if ONLY World
Gymn coverage could be so wonderfully thorough, eh?), I now put on my
"armchair athlete" hat/helmet.  I don't think publishing the basic vital
stats on an athlete is necessarily bad.  In fact, it's usually interesting
trivia.  Like Helena Sukova is 4 inches taller than her brother Cyril Suk;
like Monica Seles grew 2 inches and is really close to 6 feet -- no wonder
the added weight;  like Andr=E9 Agassi flies off the ground on his groundstr=
because he's only 165 lbs.;  and like Thomas Muster - ousted today :( - is
only 5'11" but looks much monstrously larger.  This trivial information
certainly helps put athletes into some perspective for television which ofte=
makes people look larger or smaller than they really are.

When gymnastics is on TV, especially in podium competitions where cameras po=
upwards, gymnasts look larger than they really are.  Amy Chow, for instance
looks like she could be 5'4", because she is so lean and lithe, but the
captions say that she's just 4'10".  Shannon Miller looked huge on the beam
at the U.S. Nationals on TV, but she's still small for an 18 year-old.  Bad
camera angles too.  Same with Dominique Dawes on floor.  BTW, is this the
first time U.S. Nationals is on podium?  Nevertheless, Miller and Dawes are
still performing excellently, just with a bit of bad luck.  It's too bad
body shape thing is such a stigma in our sport.  There's little relativity
to guide the viewer.  The athlete is either young and tiny or old and fat.
Truly tragic.  It's not so bad in other sports -- even figure skating.

Just the other day, I had the opportunity to skate with Isabelle Brasseur.
She looks relatively small on TV, which tells me that she's 5'0" and 95-ish
lbs.  I'm about the same height but about 15 lbs. heavier than Isabelle.
So seeing her beside me, she was no larger or smaller than I expected her to=
Had I not known her stats from TV, I would have thought she'd be larger beca=
I would have thought Lloyd Eisler would be like 6'4" (he's really just 5'11"=

So, to sum up, TV does strange things to your perceptions of athletes' sizes=
That's why the height and weight stats are there -- to put things into more
proper perspective.  If the stats are accurate and given by the athlete,
what's the problem?  I should think that athletes also have the perogative t=
not provide their stats to the media too.



Date:    Wed, 6 Sep 1995 02:41:22 -0400
Subject: Axels/RE: Katy Maty

Shawn Allen wrote about how Katy Maty (have no idea who she is) performed
a tour jet=E9 with a 1/1 twist.  How much did this look like an Axel jump, a=
in figure skating -- 1.5 rotation from a forward take-off landing backwards?

Trying f.s. jumps on beam and floor would be choreographically cool, not
to mention very tricky without the forward momentum. I am just learning to
jump on skates (flips, salchows, toe loops, and loops) after having gymn'ed
for several years.  It's an interesting challenge.

Notice how jumps in f.s. aren't like jumps in gymnastics in the definitive
sense.  In gymn, jumps are defined by take-off from 2 feet, landing on 2 fee=
While in skating, jumps are really like leaps or hops -- take-off from 1 foo=
landing on 1 foot.

Any other gymnasts-turned-figure-skaters out there (other than Surya "bad
example" Bonaly)?  How about figure-skaters-turned-gymnasts?



Date:    Wed, 6 Sep 1995 03:30:00 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: '95 Intl. Jr. Champs.

>7. Yulia Sobko (BLR)         9.050 9.200 9.325 9.625   37.200

She's still a junior?!?!?  Also Turgurlan!



Date:    Wed, 6 Sep 1995 07:25:00 UTC
From:    ***@GENIE.GEIS.COM
Subject: Re: scholar,Utah&UCLA,visualiz

Re:  Scholarships for Foreign students.
     Univ. of Florida has had a pipeline of Canadian gymnasts on scholarship
for years and UCLA currently has two fine Canadian gymnasts (Leah Homma and
Stella Umeh).  The University of Alaska has Russian gymnast, Elena Tkacheva.
     It seems like the bulk of our foreign collegiate gymnasts are from
Canada.  Those from non-English speaking countries have to pass a very
difficult Test of English as a Foreign Language (TOEFL).  I bet this limits
the number of eligible foreign athletes.
     The question of whether tax-dollars should go to foreign students is a
tricky one.  If the arguement is tax benefits going only to those being
taxed, then shouldn't the scholarships be restricted to residents of the
University's particular state?  If scholarships are going to out-of-state
students, then what does it matter if they are out-of-state or out-of-

Re: Univ. of Utah and UCLA recruits for 1995.
    From the Gymnastic Insider (P. O. Box 753, West Jordan, UT 84084) they
list Utah's recruits as Holly Northrup, Sarah Northrup, Summer Reid, and
Angie Leonard.  The recruits listed for UCLA are Kiralee Hayashi and Susie
Erickson with Keri Strug in a holding pattern until next year.

Re; visualizations.
    I read a neurological study that proved that visualization fires the
same nerve pathways in the brain that are fired when the actual physical
movement is made.  This really validates that visualization is doing

Kathy E.


Date:    Wed, 6 Sep 1995 20:04:07 EST-11
Subject: they do look taller on TV

I agree with Grace.

TV does make you look taller.

In late 1987 I was fortunate enough to see the Soviets in exhibition.
Afterwards when my sister and I were leaving, we managed to take a
wrong turn and end up in the same room as the gymnasts.  I clearly
remember Svetlana Baitova as being particularly small, but when you
see her on the tele she looks just over 5ft, but I estimate her
height at about 4ft 9 or 10.


Date:    Wed, 6 Sep 1995 05:22:13 -0600
From:    ***@RMII.COM
Subject: Re: This TV height & weight thing

Grace asked:

| BTW, is this the
| first time U.S. Nationals is on podium?

Yes.  USA Gymnastics felt this was better preparation for
international competition.  World Trials in Austin will be on a podium



Date:    Wed, 6 Sep 1995 09:08:41 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: USAG Video List Update

1995 USAG Merchandise Videos (9/6/95)
A partial List (Most Current)

To order any USA Gymnastics Merchandise, use the form on page two of
any issue of _Technique_ magazine.

To order via e-mail, use the USAG ORDER FORM (available on USAGO! or
on Gymn's ftp,gopher,www sites.)

Unless otherwise noted, most competition videos are taken from the stands of
the meet by volunteers with camcorders. Training videos are very nice
quality. More coming soon!

Currently Available:

1995 Budget Invitational (USA/UKR)
San Jose, CA. Women's Training. (Close-up, good looking footage.)
Features: Amy Chow, Dominique Dawes, Alexis Brion, Jamie Dantzscher, Gail
Kachura (USA), Anna Mirgordskaya, Oksana Knizhnik, Svetlana Zelepoukina (UKR)
(All competitors)
Item # 2430

1995 Budget Invitational (USA/UKR)
San Jose, CA. Women's Competition. (Hand-held shot from press table.)
*Includes BONUS Music Video!!
Features: Amy Chow, Dominique Dawes, Alexis Brion, Jamie Dantzscher, Gail
Kachura (USA), Anna Mirgordskaya, Oksana Knizhnik, Svetlana Zelepoukina (UKR)
(All competitors)
Item #2431

1995 U.S. National Championships
Women's Training Tapes 1 & 2
Footage from podium & training gym, Sr's and Jr's. (Close-up hand-held
footage. A gem for the gymnastics fanatic!)
*Includes BONUS Music Video!!
Features: Dominique Dawes, Shannon Miller, Jaycie Phelps, Dominique Moceanu,
Mina Kim, Vanessa Atler, Alexis Brion, Jamie Dantzscher, Kaitie Dyson... (All
Tape 1- 2:25
Tape 2- 2:00
Item #2451
(Total time) 4:25

1995 Congress Session
Mary Lee Tracey: Athlete and Staff Motivation
Item #2432

1995 Congress Session
Steve Nunno: Planning To Win
Item #2433

1995 Congress Session
Muriel Grossfeld, Tammy Biggs & Roe Kreutzer: Developing Elites
Item #2447

1995 Congress Session
Bela Karolyi: Secrets of Successful Coaching
Item #2446

1995 Congress Sessions
Tammy Biggs & Vladimir Artemov: Body Alignment
& Tony Gehman: Conditioning for Women's Gymnastics
Item #2439

1995 Congress Sessions
Steve Nunno: Tumble-Trak Drills
& Mike West: Spotting Basic Tumbling
Item #2448

1995 Congress Sessions
Tom Lenzini: So, Coaches, You Think You Want To Own Your Own Gym?
& Jeff Lulla: Developing Effective Advertising and Public Relations Plans
Item #2441
2:15 (SLP Speed)

1995 Congress Sessions
Vladimir Artemov: The Importance of Flexibility and Conditioning for FX and
BB in Relation to Skill Performance
Bryon Hough: Basic Uneven Bar Progressions and Drills
Darla Franz: Balance Beam Progressions and Drills
Item #2449
3:15 (SLP Speed)

1995 RSG Jr. Olympic Championships. Level 8
Part 1- 1:20
Part 2- 1:20
Item #2371

1995 RSG Jr. Olympic Championships. Level 7
Part 1- 1:20
Part 2- 1:20
Item #2372

1995 RSG U.S.A. Senior National Championships. Jacksonville,FL. Sr. Prelims &
Part 1- 2:00
Part 2- 1:15
Part 3- 1:00
Item #2373

1995 RSG U.S.A. Junior National Championships. Jacksonville,FL. Jr. Prelims &
Part 1- 1:50
Part 2-
Item #2374

1995 Jr. National Testing
Oakland, CA. Routines, Elements & Training Camp.
Item #2470

Home Trampoline Safety
1 Tape. Item #2490
Pack of 10 Tapes Item #2491
0:10 ea

1995 Men's Winter Cup Challenge
Colorado Springs, CO. Compulsory Competition.
Item #2245 $19.95

Level 4 Women's Artistic

    From warm-up to the handspring vault. From a beam complex to kip
cast handstands. Many of the skills and preparations that you need to
produce a gymnast ready for Level 4. Meg Warren and Richard Kearns are
the coaches. A Charles Minster production.

    Item #: 2190
    Price:  $29.95

Still Coaching Women's Artistic
    A video to assist the teaching of advanced skills and techniques
for women's artistic gymnastics. Thirty-nine skills with more than 185
progressions including Tsukahara, double backs, giant circles and back
handsprings on beam. This video carries on from Series 1. Colin and
Christine Still are the coaches. Skills are presented in an easy to
follow manner. A Charles Minster production.

Vault--Handspring; handspring with full twist; 1/2 on 1/2 off;
  Tsukahara; handspring front salto.
Bars--Kip to cast; cast to handstand; straddle back to handstand; layout
  flyaway; layout flyaway 1/1; top change; blind change; clear hip
  circle to handstand; back giant; front giant; double flyaway.
Beam--Beam complex; spins and turns; hands to feet - landing; back
  walkover; flic flac; handstand to flic flac; flic flac, flic flac;
  flic flac layout salto; RO; and RO tuck back salto.
Tumbling--Flic flac; round-off; backward salto; backward salto tucked;
  double back salto tucked; layout back salto with 1/2 twist; layout
  back salto with full twist; hand supporting the twist action; layout
  front salto with 1/2 and 1/1 twists; full and double twist;
  handspring; handspring with salto; handspring + salto with 1/2 twist;
  handspring + salto with full twist.
    Item #:  2450
    Price:   $29.95

The official video magazine of USA Gymnastics
Contents of Vol. 1, No. 1, April 1995:
Competition Highlights--Men's 1995 Winter Cup Challenge, Colorado
  Springs, Colo.; Women's 1995 American Classic, Oakland, Calif.; 1994
  Rhythmic Challenge, Colorado Springs, Colo.; and 1995 American Cup,
  Seattle, Wash.
Club Tour--West Valley Gymnastics
Athlete Spotlight--Amy Chow
Other--How do you warm-up? International Protocol Summit.
    Item #:  2466
    Price:   $14 (single issue price)

videos for $120 is being offered for a limited time.

1994 Coca-Cola National Championships, Nashville, Tenn., August 1994.
(SP, two tapes, 2:56)
    ITEM #:  2142
    PRICE:   $24.95

1995 MEN'S AMERICAN CUP, Seattle, Wash.
Preliminaries and Finals.
    ITEM #:  2246
    PRICE:   $19.95

1995 MEN'S PAN AMERICAN GAMES, Mar del Plata, Argentina
Preliminaries and finals.
    ITEM #:  2247
    PRICE:   $19.95

Two tapes. Includes Finals and Children's floor.
    ITEM #:  2390
    PRICE:   $24.95

1994 EUROPEAN CHAMPIONSHIPS, Tesalonika, Greece.
Two tapes. Senior individual finals and Junior group (1st rotation top 26).
    ITEM #:  2391
    PRICE:   $24.95

1994 RSG World Championships, Paris-Bercy, France, October 1994.
Two tapes, SP, 4:00.
    ITEM #:  2398
    PRICE:   $24.95

1994 RSG World Championships, Paris-Bercy, France, October 1994.
One tape, SP, 2:00.
    ITEM #:  2399
    PRICE:   $16.95

To order any USA Gymnastics Merchandise, use the form on page two of
any issue of _Technique_ magazine. To order via e-mail use the
Merchandise Mart order form.

 USAG Merchandise:
P.O. Box 5562, Indianapolis, IN 46225-5562


Date:    Wed, 6 Sep 1995 09:08:52 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Fwd: USAG-Order-Form

Forwarded message:
From:   ***
Date: 95-09-06 05:31:25 EDT


To order any USA Gymnastics Merchandise, use the form on page two of
any issue of _Technique_ magazine. To order via e-mail include the
following information:

Day telephone:

Item name:
   Item #:
   Price:     $
   Sub-total: $

(copy above for each additional item)

Sub-total:    $
+ S&H*:       $
TOTAL:        $

Credit card information:
MC:  ___
Card number:
Card holder name:
Expiration date:

*Shipping & Handling charges:
  orders $15 & under    add $4
         $15.01-$50     add $5
         $50.0-$100     add $6
         $100.01 & over add $9

  Delphi address:    USGF
  Internet address:


Date:    Wed, 6 Sep 1995 10:38:03 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: USAG Videos

Well everyone, I've posted a list of USAG's most current videos for sale. I'm
out of town until Sunday 9/10, but I'll be happy to answer any questions when
I return.  :)


Date:    Wed, 6 Sep 1995 12:21:11 -0600
Subject: Atlanta Invitational.

Anyone know about tickets being available for the Atlanta Invitational being
held in November. You know, the pre-Olympics meet in the Georgia Dome. Though
it will fall during the same month as Worlds, it would be nice to see, since
I haven't a chance in he*l of getting to the games in 1996.

Thanks. Jeff


Date:    Wed, 6 Sep 1995 17:27:30 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: This TV height & weight thing

Hey. would everyone please except my unsubscription. Thanks!!


Date:    Wed, 6 Sep 1995 19:39:11 -0500
Subject: Floor routines and choreography, NCAA difficulty

Date sent:  6-SEP-1995 19:26:20

Well, good evening and hello to everyone.
I finally got the most recent International Gymnast magazines from the
former men's gymnast coach here at school, and I'm a bit annoyed. Everyone
keeps raving about the great choreography of the Russians and bitching
about how some routines are all tumbling and no choreography. And, judging
by some of what I read today, I think the implication was that many of the
lacking routines belong to Americans.

Well, I'd like to disagree with that. First, there are some top US athltes
that do NOT have well choreographed numbers, at least not ones that are
strong in dance (Brion, Chow, etc.) But many US athltes do have good
routiens. Especially notable are Miller's grace, Dawes (whose new Russian
number really appeals to me), Phelps, who seems to have found a good
balance between her grace and music choice, and especially Amanda Borden,
whose floor routine is one of the best ever done. In the past, Phoebe
Mills' 1988 number was well done, as was Spivey's Cats number. Brandy
Johnson's numbers once she returned to Brown's were also classy.

I think the implication that is often made is that you need to be classical
to be a great gymnast, that unless your music is violins or something
like it, you will be termed "lacking in grace." I disagree. Certainly,
routines like Khorkina's or Pdkopayeva's stand out, but so do US routines.
They just don't fit what I guess is expected.

Comments on this are welcome. Oh, I forgot to mention KIm Zmeskal's "In
the Mood" number. I loved it, and still do.

OK, next topic. I was watching everyone argue about the NCAA difficulty
problem. The one thing I enjoy about watching the NCAA's is that routines
are somewhat simpler, and therefore can be hit very very well. But I do
agree there is far too much leeway. Now, no offense to Alabama routines,
but how can their floor total come even close to Georgias when both teams
are on? Because the code of points is far too lenient. Then again, I don't
want to see choreography sdacrificed for difficult tumbling. I think, on
a whole, NCAA choreography is more appealing and more audience-oriented.
Case in point: Aimee Trepanier's floor routine this year. far and away
some of the best I've seen.

Again, comments are welcome. And thanks to everyone who sent commentary
and compliments on the Olympic preview. It's nice to feel appreciated,
something which doesn't come easy in this profession.


Date:    Thu, 7 Sep 1995 10:58:37 +1000
From:    ***@STUDENT.GU.EDU.AU
Subject: Lisa Moro on 'Today'

The Australian 'Today' show, did a profile piece on Lisa Moro this
morning.  It was obviously taped a few weeks ago, since she's now heavily
into a Worlds training camp at the AIS in Canberra.  It showed her
training at the Victorian Institute of Sport (VIS) gym in Melbourne, having
dinner with her family (she has two older brothers), feeding a blue
budgie, and in class at school (she was wearing the same uniform as Jo
Hughes, who goes to St Leonards College, so I guess most of the VIS
girls go there).

Lisa won FX at the China Cup last year, and two silver medals at the
Pacific Alliance Champs.  This year she won BB & FX at Australian
Nationals.  She's now 14, and has made the top 8 for Sabae Worlds.  In
terms of talent, polish and skill level she's probably the best gymnast
Australia has ever produced, all she needs now is consistency and luck.

In the beginning of the piece, her coach Fiona Bird said that 6 girls,
aged between 14 and 17, had been targeted for Atlanta, and were training
30 to 35 hours per week at the VIS.  Obviously Jo and Lisa are two of
them, and I guess Zeena McLaughlin, Susanna Le, Bree Munro and Claire
Cribbes are the others?

Anyway here's what was said.  The quotes seem random, since they were
pieced together by the interviewers comments, which aren't worth repeating.


Fiona Bird: "We very strongly support that phylosophy of having the kids
have the opportunity to stay at home.  If they do want to go to the AIS,
that's fine.  That's their choice.  Our job is to make sure they have
that choice."

Lisa's Father: "When Lisa started, if it had been a matter of
packing her bags and going to Canberra, she never would have gone."

(Lisa spends 3 nights at a foster home, and 4 nights at home per week,
because her family lives a distance away from the gym in Cheltnam).

Lisa Moro: "I really missed my parents at first, but I felt much better,
cause I had lots of friends around that understood how I felt, cause a
lot of different girls stay there without their parents."

Coach Fiona Bird: "She gained alot of confidence in the last 12 months,
and that's been through her successes and her results.  But, also alot
more focus, because she really realises now that she has a real chance."

Lisa Moro: "I just go out there and I just concentrate on myself, and
just try and think I can do a certain apparatus to the best of my
ability, and I just go out and do what I can do, and the result
come......(she trailed off there)

Lisa Moro: "You have to really love the sport, and I think that you have
to have, like, some hunour in you, be really happy, cause sometimes it
can get you down and you can't get back up again."

Lisa Moro: "I've been pretty determined.  If there's something that I
really like or love, I will probably do almost anything."

(Interviewer asks if she has to win)

Lisa Moro: "Not really, I just take it as I go, and if I win, it's a bonus."




Date:    Wed, 6 Sep 1995 21:45:00 -0500
Subject: Re: Axels/RE: Katy Maty

I used to do something in my fx routine that was a bit like an single axel.
I'm not sure I remember it right, but here's my best reconstruction.  It
had a one foot, forward-moving take-off and was supposed to be a tucked 1
1/2 twist in the air with a one foot landing.  If I recall right, it was
_so_ hard to do on the floor in my gymn, but _much_ easier in meets where
there was usually a spring floor.

Come to think of it, tumbling was also much easier on a spring floor, which
meant that no one on my team ever got nervous before competing fx.

I've always wanted to take skating lessons.  Perhaps this year.  How much
of your skill do you find transfers from gym to fs?


Date:    Wed, 6 Sep 1995 22:08:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Floor routines and choreography, NCAA difficiculty

> Dawes (whose new Russian
> number really appeals to me)

What Russian number?  When did she do it?

Laura :)


End of GYMN-L Digest - 5 Sep 1995 to 6 Sep 1995