GYMN-L Digest - 5 Apr 1996 to 6 Apr 1996

There are 18 messages totalling 490 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. MAG/WAG: CBS presents Budget Invitational:
  2. USSR team today (2)
  3. ER (3)
  4. Judging
  5. Open letter to Dean Dryer
  6. Oprah Winfrey
  7. WTC, STC, Soviets, USA Team
  8. Clipart
  9. Kim's Injury
 10. Request for PAC-10 tape
 11. NY Times article on Nadia and Bart
 12. Which 7 would be on the "Soviet" team today?
 13. Karpenko
 14. WAG: Hindorff (sp?)
 15. Hi, I am a new member...


Date:    Fri, 5 Apr 1996 17:30:12 -0600
Subject: MAG/WAG: CBS presents Budget Invitational:

This meet will be broadcast on April 21, 1-3 PM (EST). It will NOT BE ON
teh same day as the meet.



Date:    Fri, 5 Apr 1996 17:44:52 -0500
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: USSR team today

I think the most likely team for the women would be:
Lilia Podkopayeva
Svetlana Khorkina
Dina Kochetkova
Oksana Fabrichnova
Rosa Galieva
Svetlana Boginskaya
Elena Piskun
alt: Oksana Chutsovitina
another possibility would be Elena Grosheva.
Now I have a question:  do you think this team would be strong enough to beat
the Romanians and the Chinese?


Date:    Fri, 5 Apr 1996 16:45:24 -0600
From:    ***@CARLETON.EDU
Subject: ER

I was the one who mentioned ER and I in no way meant to imply that ER was
slaming gymnastics ... I mentioned no outcome because ther was none and
also to point out they really were just passing events not a real story
line. :)

Date:    Fri, 5 Apr 1996 12:48:54 -0700
From:    ***@ASU.EDU
Subject: ER and gymn

        Someone mentioned that _ER_ has shown gymnastic-related injuries
twice in two weeks, without showing an outcome.  I don't think this
implies a slam against gymnastics.  The style of _ER_  is frantic, and a
lot of the cases shown have no outcome.  I don't think that anyone
watching the show would get a negative implication about gymnastics from
watching the show.  I mean, the vast majority of serious injuries on the
show are from shootings and auto accidents, and often there's no outcome
those cases either.



Date:    Fri, 5 Apr 1996 16:51:20 -0700
From:    ***@CSN.NET
Subject: Re: ER

>I was the one who mentioned ER and I in no way meant to imply that ER was
>slaming gymnastics ... I mentioned no outcome because ther was none and
>also to point out they really were just passing events not a real story
>line. :)
Wow...those must be dedicated tv-land the latest injury
occurred in the wee hours of the morning.  Guess I'm glad my daughter's gym
doesn't schedule practices at 2:00 a.m. ;-^)  I'm not even sure that the
most villified elite coaches would go that far...



Date:    Fri, 5 Apr 1996 22:58:29 -0500
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Judging

I have a question for Robin, the gymnastics judge.
I was wondering what you thought about someone judging at a Level 9/10 State
Meet (and being the head judge) who was also an owner of a very large well
known gym that was competing and who also happened to have her daughter
competing in that meet? As parents of gymnasts from a smaller less known gym
we were thinking that this was a conflict of interest and shouldn't be
tolerated much less allowed. The scores were definitely in favor of gymnasts
from her gym and they were ridiculously high also.
The coach from our gym would like to know also how other people feel about
this.  Does he have any recourse? Can he take this issue to anyone who would
Thanks for any input

Gym Mom


Date:    Fri, 5 Apr 1996 22:33:07 -0400
Subject: Re: USSR team today

Hi Liz
First off I disagree with your team,
I see
alt karpenko
I do think this team would beat the chinese.  Whether it beat the
romanians would depend on whether milo and gogean hit their routines.
the veterans usually set the pace.  A romanian team that hit composed of
ana maria bican
this team could beat the proposed ussr team, but it would be very close.
It would probably rely on the performances of presecan, and bican vs. the
performances of Piskoun and galieva
Just my opinion


Date:    Fri, 5 Apr 1996 22:20:41 -0500
From:    ***@INETNOW.NET
Subject: Open letter to Dean Dryer

I am wondering why I am the butt of personal insults and lies. A week ago or
two ago, I mentioned I saw Dominque Moceanu in a TV interview and she looked
tired to me. I then said I hoped she wasn't getting burned out from gymnastics.

Every since then, since then I have been sent numerous hate filled messages,
and insulted publicly on this forum. Why? Because I brought up some issues
that some people in gymnastics, like yourself, are ashamed and embarassed
of? Did you really think that insulting me publicly and trying to discredit
me would make me shut up. It resulted in the opposite response.

Now you claim I have "serious personal problems"? What kind of fool are you?
Have you read the books and articles that are readily available, that detail
the same things I have been talking about for the last week? Have you seen
the TV programs that bring up those same issues? But the whole thrust of
this argument  has been trying to call me names and insults.

First it was Micheal Roge, and now you. Why don't we ignore you? I am not a
man to take insults, lies, and smears lying down, when I know I am, and was,
telling the truth. And for those people suggesting that they e-mail me
privately, for what? All the vile insults are in public!!

vile personal  insults aganist me will never change the truth. You can't
hide from it. It's in every library. All any enlightened person would have
to do is look up the subject gymnastics. The articles would pour forward.
You won't need me to tell you what I read. You know it. The abuses of
gymnastics are well known. MANY, MANY, MANY articles and TV reports have
been done on it.

 For you people who want sources, I have given them. But if you want, I WILL
The name of every article I have read, the date, source. The same for the TV
programs and books. How about that? OH NO!!!!!!!!!!! Those of you who have
thrown personal insults and lies at me publicly ,and privately, who not want

Lies and insults will never silence me. I will not be intimidated for
speaking the truth. I have had over 70 e-mail messages sent to me over the
last week and a half, and almost all were negative. Most were not fit for
public viewing. This is why I am mad. I am going to stay mad till
foolishness ends. I will continue to speak the truth, about this and other
subjects, when the need arises. If you don't agree, debate me intelligently,
without hate, insults, and attempts at intimidation. Do you really want
those bibliographies posted? I can do it, if you want. I guarantee you
hatemongers who have being insulting him, revile the idea of that.


Date:    Fri, 5 Apr 1996 21:53:34 -0500
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Oprah Winfrey


A film crew from the Oprah Winfrey show spent 3 hours last night doing
with our gymnasts, and filming the practice.  This is in conjunction with a
show she is
doing with our favorite author, Joan Ryan, of "Little Girls in Pretty Boxes"
notoriety. We will be going in April 10th to do the talk show thing.  It
should air sometime in the week following, when I have the exact air date
I'll let everyone know.


Date:    Sat, 6 Apr 1996 14:21:44 +1200
From:    ***@VOYAGER.CO.NZ
Subject: WTC, STC, Soviets, USA Team

>What does the title 'WTC' mean?
>One more thing: Do they post these SV's at big meets, so that people in the
>arena can see it or is it something that you see only if you look into
>"the pit" where the judges are located near the apparatus. I've only seen
>SV shown once on TV, and that was on VAULT, where this women held up this
>sign which simply said "10.0" and showed it to the judges. I remember
>seeing this in Atlanta, on vault as well, when Bogi vaulted, a judge
>flashed a 9.9 to the other judges. So, is this judge/offical the STC?
>I miss being told SV by commentators. They used to do this on some events.
>Now it is just on V, and with so many gymnasts doign the same vault, it
>isn't hard to remember the SVs.

Sorry everyone for using abbreviations it is habit.  I have had a few
questions so here is the answers to everyone.
WTC  is the Womens Technical Committee of the FIG.  The WTC member is drawn
by ballot for each apparatus and competition.
STC stands for Scientific Technical Collaborator.  She writes the entire
programme of the routine ( in symbols)  and checks the special requirements
and Value parts, all bonus points etc.
In short all deductions for elements that are downvalued,  series  not
given, bonuses not paid  are taken by this person in collaboration with the
WTC member.  The WTC member does have the final say in a dispute,  but as
far as I know that has not happened.  An Expert has disputed a SV but has
been overruled by the STC a few times.
The reason why the commentators only give out the vault start value,  is
because the gymnast has to flash the vault number prior to performing it,
and it is easy.  However this only works if the gymnast does the correct
vault.  The STC on the vault may decide that the vault number that is
flashed is not the performed vault.  If that happens then the performed
vault SV plus a technical deduction is taken. The lady at the end of the
vault run up who flashes the start value is not an official judge of the
competition but an assistant.  The STC and Expert and WTC member always sit
at right angles to the apparatus  and have the very best view.
 Every other apparatus it is too hard for the commentator to even guess what
the SV would be..  The times that I have watched meets and the commentators
have guessed the SV they have usually been wrong. They usually get element
values wrong as well.   It would help the enjoyment of  a competition a lot
more if they had top knowledgeable people with the commentators advising
them of any missing requirements or the total of bonuses.
Here in NZ the Start Value is always flashed,  and I think that it should be
in all meets but it isn't.  It would explain a lot to the audience and
coaches  why a final score is what it is.  At the moment the start value is
only flashed electronically to the judges computer terminal  and the FIG
jury,  thats all.

Oldest gymnasts.
Ovary was the oldest at Sabae  followed by Boguinskaia  and Dagonert (Hun)

Reply to Chris Scott.

Khorkina is down to compete at Puerto Rico  along with Kotchetkova.

What about  Podgorny for the Soviet team,  awesome triple back on floor.

The USA coaches do not appear to have much team spirit,  the gymnasts are
usually kept apart from each other and are trained individually whenever I
have seen them at Worlds.  So any blame for lacking team unity should fall
on the coaches shoulders.

Sorry about the long reply,  I thought I'd cover everything while I was on line.


Date:    Fri, 5 Apr 1996 21:14:37 -0500
From:    ***@YALE.EDU
Subject: Re: ER

> Wow...those must be dedicated tv-land the latest injury
> occurred in the wee hours of the morning.  Guess I'm glad my daughter's gym
> doesn't schedule practices at 2:00 a.m. ;-^)  I'm not even sure that the
> most villified elite coaches would go that far...

I know some guys who have practiced at such hours during Hell Weeks in
the summer when they would all live at the gym.  They had to finish what
they were assigned to do, and if they didn't, they had to return to
practicing later in the evening until they did.



Date:    Fri, 5 Apr 1996 18:24:18 -0500
From:    ***@PRIS.BC.CA
Subject: Clipart

I know this was brought up once before, but I missed the outcome of it, so
if anybody can help that would be great.

What I am looking for is some gymnastics clipart, or some pictures, that
would be easy and appropriate for a gymnastics homepage, or better yet, for
club letterheads.  If anybody knows of places where I could find this type
of print, or if anybody hase such fonts, could you please let me know.  Any
help would be greatly appreciated.



Date:    Fri, 5 Apr 1996 17:31:22 -0800
From:    ***@IX.NETCOM.COM
Subject: Kim's Injury

You wrote:
>Is it true tht Kim had an ankle injury during the '92 Olympics but no
>one knew it until after the Olympics were over?

                        Yes. Kim had a very nasty stress fracture in
her ankle. After he magnificant performance in the team final(in which
she placed first) she could hardly walk but still kept a smile for the
cameras. What a fighter. She never used this an exuse though for her
performance. It's not her style.


Date:    Fri, 5 Apr 1996 20:10:54 EST
From:    ***@BBN.COM
Subject: Request for PAC-10 tape

My attempt to tape the SportsChannel/Prime coverage of
the PAC-10 championships earlier this week failed completely.

Does anyone know if this will be rebroadcast (it's not
listed in this coming week's TV Guide for the Boston
area)?  Failing that, would someone be willing to
help me get a copy?  I'm happy to either pay or trade.



Date:    Fri, 5 Apr 1996 20:07:45 EST
From:    ***@BBN.COM
Subject: NY Times article on Nadia and Bart

Today's (Friday, 4/5/96) NY Times has an article about
Bart Conner and Nadia Comaneci and their upcoming wedding
(three weeks away, with highlights the next day on
ABC's Wide World of Sports).  The article discusses how
after meeting at the American Cup in 1976, they didn't
really cross paths again until after Nadia defected.
Then Bart talked himself onto the "Pat Sajak" show
when Nadia was to be interviewed, sensed she was
afraid of Panait (the man who'd help her defect), and
arranged for her to leave Panait and move to Canada.
After a year as "phone pals," they began making
appearances together, and the friendship eventually
grew into a romance.

Bart is in NYC to promote the Sabae Worlds.

A few quotes:

Conner:  "Sometimes the story seems just a little
too cute.  Joe Midwest and the mysterious beauty
from Transyvania."

Comaneci:  Bart has "not guilty written on his face."

Conner: Nadia's in New York "to buy more clunky
black shoes."

There are two photos, both taken for the interview,
one of Bart kissing Nadia on the cheek on a New York
street, and the other of Bart and Nadia sitting
together on a couch laughing.



Date:    Fri, 5 Apr 1996 19:53:24 -0500
From:    ***@PIPELINE.COM
Subject: Re: Which 7 would be on the "Soviet" team today?

Subject: Re:      Which 7 would be on the "Soviet" team today?

On Fri, Apr 5, 1996 12:08:05 PM  at Christopher Scott wrote:

>So I pose the question:  if the USSR still existed as one
>team, which 7 gymnasts, men and women, would you put on their Olympic

Svetlana Khorkina
Viktoria Karpenko
Roza Galieva
Lilia Podkopayeva
Natalia Bobrova
Yelena Piskun
Oksana Fabrichnova

Alexei Nemov
Vitali Scherbo
Alexei Voropayev
Ivan Ivankov
Grigory Misuitin
Rustam Sharipov
Dimitri Karbonenko



Date:    Fri, 5 Apr 1996 19:12:17 -0400
From:    ***@FOX.NSTN.CA
Subject: Karpenko

        In response to Chris's prediction for the "Soviet" team, I agree
entirely except I would not consider Boginskaya as the alternate and would
place Chusovitina ahead of Piskun.  As for Karpenko, this little gymnast could
 be a surprise medallist in Atlanta.
Watch for her as she is truly unbelievable, especially on FX!



Date:    Sat, 6 Apr 1996 00:20:33 -0500
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: WAG: Hindorff (sp?)

Hey - what is this skill...



Date:    Sat, 6 Apr 1996 00:43:28 -0500
From:    ***@WAM.UMD.EDU
Subject: Hi, I am a new member...

Hi all.  I am a junior at the University of Maryland College Park, and
I am a Kinesiology major.  I coach gymnastics at a small dance studio
in southern Maryland with students ages 4 to 12 at beginning to
preteam levels.  Since we do not have a competitive team, I would
appreciate any info out there about starting up a team.  I was a level 5
and 6 competitor in high school, and I really love the sport.  Eventually,
I want to open up my own gym for all levels of gymnstics, so if anyone can
give me advice, please e-mail me at . Also, I would be
interested in hearing advice about coaching techniques - especially for the
 highigher levels.  Does anyone know about competitions (other than collegic)
for older gymnasts?  One last question - has anyone reads the book,
The Zone and is it applicable for gymnastics? (It is by Barry Sears).


End of GYMN-L Digest - 5 Apr 1996 to 6 Apr 1996