GYMN-L Digest - 4 Mar 1996 - Special issue

There are 13 messages totalling 652 lines in this issue.

Topics in this special issue:

  1. full in punch front
  2. tumbling
  3. GYMN-L Digest - 3 Mar 1996 to 4 Mar 1996
  4. GYMN-L Digest - 2 Mar 1996 to 3 Mar 1996
  5. The American Cup
  6. Karoyli and Boginskaya
  7. In defence of NBC showing us John Roethlisberger.
  8. NBC's coverage
 10. Kerri's moment vs. Dom Live
 11. French Intl. Preview
 12. NBC SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!
 13. GYMN-L Collegiate Update vol. 1, no. 18


Date:    Mon, 4 Mar 1996 08:01:43 -0500
From:    ***@YALE.EDU
Subject: Re: full in punch front

> Impressive skill that it is, I still think Mitova's double layout punch
> front is the best floor tumble I've seen.

As long as we're not forgetting it was done before Mitova (Camelia
Voinea in '87).

> Closely followed by Groshkova's double double (I think that's what it was)

Double full-in.  Silivas did the double double.

> Simone



Date:    Mon, 4 Mar 1996 08:39:49 -0500
Subject: tumbling

        With respect to the tumbling mentioned in the previous forum, I just
wanted to confirm that Tatiana Groshkova actually tumbled a double full-in
back out as her first tumbling run and also Milosovici did indeed perform a
full-in back out punch front at the 1991 Worlds.  I agree that Mitova's
double layout punch front was awesome but, IMO, Cristina Bontas' layout
full-in back out performed at the FX finals in Indy, 1991 was the most
spectacular I have ever seen.  It was truly LAID OUT!

        Regarding the American Cup, I too plan on sending a message to NBC
complaining about them covering Roethlisberger saying "hi" to his pet fish
instead of showing Tousek's FX.  Also, congratulations to Kerri Strug!
Noone deserves it more than she!  Chusovitina was really incredible too and
I hope she wins a medal in Atlanta.



Date:    Mon, 4 Mar 1996 08:34:40 +0200
From:    ***@MERCUR.USAO.EDU
Subject: Re: GYMN-L Digest - 3 Mar 1996 to 4 Mar 1996

my name's katrinka, this is the first time I've posted to this list.
I am a fan of gymnasts, and use to compete in the olden days (Late 70's
early 80's) I live in chickasha oklahoma, which is home to several world
tumblers. one suggested me to this list, after I explained to him the
differences between the uneven bars in the 70's and 90's.
yes, I live in the same state as a former world champion. a state that is
quite on the strange, because they still can't call bart connor a citizen
even though he's been here since 76! time and time again, the local news
talks about the only oklahoma gymnast that has won an international medal.
(I am not blaming the former world champion it isn't her fault)
I am peeved because our local NBC channel did not choose to show the
american cup because Miller was not competing. I called them, and they
said there was no oklahoma intrest, and if she's not in a meet, their not
going to show it!
well, I'll probably be posting tomorrow with the results of an OU
gymnastic meet.


Date:    Mon, 4 Mar 1996 08:52:04 +0200
From:    ***@MERCUR.USAO.EDU
Subject: Re: GYMN-L Digest - 2 Mar 1996 to 3 Mar 1996

I forgot to say in my last posting,
I didn't get the triple cast, because my cable system refused to carry it,
if anyone taped the woman's gymnastics, can you e-mail me privately? I
would really like to get the parts the NBC didn't show. I like seeing
gymnasts from all over the world, not just the "stars". the networks
forget that winning isn't everything. and sometimes seeing a routine that
scores in the 8's from someone from a country that just joined the
gymnastic comunity, is more thrilling then just seeing the same gymnasts
over and over.
I got to go fortworth worlds with my gym club (I was a spectator, but had
good seats), and watched many of the emerging countries. (When everyone
else went shopping, I stayed and watched the British woman, who I was
impressed with) I also liked watching the Dutch and aussie team.


Date:    Mon, 4 Mar 1996 11:53:35 -0500
From:    ***@WAM.UMD.EDU
Subject: The American Cup

First of all, I would like to say WOOOOOOOWWWWW!!! I am REALLY happy for
Kerri Strug! She is really coming out on her own.  It's nice to see
someone whose had so many problems what with going from gym to gym and 3
injuries since the '92 olympics to grab the opportunity and to show so
much confidence to win the title.
However, I was just wondering, where was Kim?  Isn't the McDonalds cup
sort of a "coming-out" competition for these athletes? I know why Dom. M.
and Shannon could'nt compete, but I'm a little bit concerned about Kim
because she hasn't been in alot of international competitions where at
least some of the top contenders for the Atlanta all-around
participated.  is she just waiting for National's for what will literally
be her "debut"?  Isn't that a little risky? What do y'all think?
Second, too bad about Kristy's FX.  But you have to admit, it was a lot
better than her Arabian number (at least in my book).
Third, HOW ABOUT BOGI! YOU GO GIRL! 23 and still going strong, My God
what a performance, especially in prelims!  This just proves, along with
Shannon Miller, Dominique Dawes, Kerri Strug, Oksana Chusovatina whom I
can't say enough about, and all the other 19 and over gymnasts whom
people would write off as "ancient" or "old", that it is possible to keep
going at this incredible elite level, and still be competitive.  I, for
one, am really glad that gymnastics has seemed to open up to older
more mature gymnasts like it was before when 24 or even 25 wasn't
considered old.
I am definitely looking forward to Atlanta.


Date:    Mon, 4 Mar 1996 11:59:55 -0500
From:    ***@WAM.UMD.EDU
Subject: Karoyli and Boginskaya

Just me again- Just wanted one more answer to a question I have:
        Why is Bela coaching BOTH Bogi and Strug?  What will he do in the
Olympics when they're going to be competing not only against each other,
but for different countries?  How will the team competition be? Won't
there be a conflict of interests?  Is there any regulation prohibiting a
coach from coaching two athletes from holding different citizenship?


Date:    Mon, 4 Mar 1996 12:23:25 -0600
Subject: In defence of NBC showing us John Roethlisberger.

There have been a lot of complaints about NBC showing John waiting for
his score and stayed with him during the canadian's FX routine. I have to
agree that I, too, thought about seeing the routine instead of John. But now,
I support NBC's decision. JOhn has an incredible point about the fact that
TV tends to show Women's Gymnastics in greater depth, but only shows spotlights
of the men's competitions. Women's gymnastics has more air time (which is
surprising since they only compete on 4 apparatus whereas the men compete on
6). John is correct in saying that USA gymnastics needs air time, not just the
women. And his success at the American Cup (regardless if you want to call it
call ia fair meet or not) desires the camera's attention. You'll note:

        (1) NBC gave us great information and snippets about Powell and
            her coach, Bogi, Strug, and all kinds of info about Moceanu
            (who wasn't even there but was beamed there live via satellite
            so we wouldn't forget her absence), but not ONE in depth (or even
            shallow) bio about the men competing. I was even surprised
            that they *meantioned* that John's sister was an olympian, as
            was his father. Gee, Tim, she was only a national team member
            and Olympian while you were!! And, she competed in the
            1985 America's Cup (the same year Tim won it!!

        (2) NBC showed us five different men competeing. They showed two
            vaults, three PB, and four HB routines. They showed us 6 UB
            routines, 5 BB routines, and 6 FX routines. Where's the balance?
            With this being live competition, there was always a chance
            to show the men's routine going on in between the women's routines
            But NBC showed their snippets above or something else.

        (3) NBC's proganda machine was out in full force again by airing its
            advertizement for another gymnastics video without men on it
            (apparently- they were no men shown in the highlights they

And finally, my biggest bone with the one person out there who said something
that really ticked me off.But I deleted their message so I can't respond
privately so I'll do it here.

        Whatever *IDIOT* said that they couldn't believe that NBC showed
        John Rothlesberger stripping down to his UNDIES on national
        television, those are not UNDIES, but his leotard, (you know, that
        thing that Men *and* women are required to wear in competition(?))
        and I have NOT heard a single complaint about the fact that NBC
        showed us Kristy Powell, who put on a tee shirt over her leo so that
        she could change her leotard (or atleast take the top off) was
        covered live on national television by NBC. NBC kept that camera
        on her for awhile, too. What no complaints?

Though I'ld like to have seen the routine, I think that in retrospect, John's
comments are only strengthened by the comments made on this list recently.
To put it simply, what's good for the goose is good for the gander.



Date:    Mon, 4 Mar 1996 10:07:01 -0800
Subject: NBC's coverage

I have some useful information as well as some opinion to provide here.

First of all, taken from the NBC WWW page, the email address for NBC
sports is

Now for the opinion.  Whether it is undies or a leotard, I think it's a
waste of rare gymnastics airtime to show someone changing clothes.  I
thought this when they showed Kristie taking off her leo, and I thought
it when they showed John changing his pants.  I also thought that there
*must* have been something that they could have shown that would have
been more interesting than Kerri taking off her grips.  Although it was
curious that she seemed to be saving the pre-wrap for another time, it
was not as interesting as seeing what was going on in the men's
competition at that time.

I don't think that you can count someone changing clothes (or psyching up
in the locker room, where he was obviously trying to be alone with his
walkman) as productive airtime for men's gymnastics.  If they had reduced
the "fluff" pieces by at least half (for instance, eliminating the first
Dominique interview--that girl has to learn to say "you know" a lot less)
and shown some more men's competition, I think everyone would have been

Once I watch my tape of the telecast again and can organize my critique,
I plan to let NBC know how I feel (although I think there is still an NBC
producer on this list), and I encourage everyone to do the same.



Date:    Sun, 3 Mar 1996 15:09:21 -0500
From:    ***@GWIS2.CIRC.GWU.EDU

Well, I'm not really sure how one would go about organinizing the
specifics of this, but it does sound very intriguing.  I for one am very
interested in this concept and would be willing to help get it going.

> Howdy, folks:
> Perhaps I need to articulate a bit better what 'Fantasy Gymnastics' would or
> could be.
> First, we would need to have a list of the international class gymnasts out
> there that regularly compete in the international meets.  Then, through a
> 'draft' process, each GYMN member playing would need to choose their team
> members, and NOT necessarily from the same country (i.e., six competing
> from any countries to represent their team(that's the 'Fantasy' part of it,
> your own personal 'Dream Team')--the selection process for this would really
> need to be hammered out with soooo many people on the list...In Fantasy
> Football, there are usually only 10-15 regular folks who are playing).
> Now that each participant has her/his teams, YOU get your own personal score
> adding up the individual scores of your six gymnasts competing.  If one of
> gymnasts gets injured, oh well--you're stuck without a gymnast, and hence,
> without a score.
> I will attempt to give you an example using the results of yesterday's
> Cup, since I have the results here in front of me (thanks to the Newark _Star
> Ledger_...)
> I have chosen, by some yet-to-be-determined method, the following gymnasts for
> my team:  Strug, Miller, Piskun, Chusovitina, Boguinskaya, and Tousek.  Here
> how my team score looks, using all-around scores:
>         TEAM C:
>         Strug           39.13
>         Miller          0       (Neither Miller or Piskun competed today,
>         Piskun          0       both are on my hypothetical team, so I don't
>         Chusovitina     38.635  gain any points for them today)
>         Boguinskaya     38.687
>         Tousek          37.861
> _________________________________
> C's Total
> for Am Cup of
> 3/2/96  :              154.313
> The way this works in American Football is the game takes place over a
> season--so your individual players' performances are tallied up over the
> of 16 games.  Perhaps this would be the case in a Fantasy Gymnastics
> game--include not just one meet, but a series of meets.
> As I said before, this is a very sketchy outline, but as I also said, I am
> willing to hammer some concrete specifications out if anyone is interested in
> participating and also interested in helping set this up.
> Hope to hear some feedback soon...
> Michele


Date:    Sun, 3 Mar 1996 15:01:01 -0500
From:    ***@GWIS2.CIRC.GWU.EDU
Subject: Kerri's moment vs. Dom Live

I also did not think it was necessary to Dominique M. live during the
Cup, not at the end or at all for that matter.  Don't get wrong, I love
this gymnast--but she wasnt there and the commentators could have given a
short explanation and have been done with it.  This was Kerri's day (and
Svetlana's also).  I too noticed that Bela did not seem real excited
about it.

> 6) I got the impression that Bela was mad that Domi was on the TV live there
> at the end. I think he (and myself) felt that this moment was Kerri's more
> that Dom's.


Date:    Mon, 4 Mar 1996 11:10:44 -0800
From:    ***@NETCOM.COM
Subject: French Intl. Preview

Some tidbits from the Saturday/Sunday issue of _l'Equipe_:

Confirmed gymnasts include: Li Donghua, Chechi, Scherbo, Ivankov,
Misutin, Wecker, Mogilny, Amanar, Gogean, Kochetkova,
Podkopayeva, Begue, Teza, Canqueteau, Zaripova, Batyrchina,
Serebrianskaya, Vitrichenko, Lukyanenko, Severino and Serrano.

Gymnasts out with injuries: Nemov (injured foot); Casimir (dislocated
collarbone); and Lemoine (double fracture of the thumb).

More than US$100,000 in prize money will be distributed.



Date:    Mon, 4 Mar 1996 14:59:34 -0500
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: NBC SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just can't keep my mouth shut.  I'm sorry, I tried, but I just can't do it.
 For the record, I too, don't like NBC, but your complaints about them not
showing that Canadian girl are starting to drive me crazy.  I'm sure many of
you don't like what I have to say, but oh well.  I have to vent also.

First, one of the reasons why they probably didn't show the floor routine is
because they didn't want to cut in the middle of it.  They don't think that's
proper or whatever.  MANY times I would've loved to see my HUSBAND or friend
competing instead of them showing some girl stripping (I guess it's okay for
you guys for them to show Kristie stripping?) or just sitting around taking
tape off or looking at scores.  At least they show the girls!  I'm sure if it
was a Canadian meet they would've shown her.  But, we Americans don't even
get to see our American men at even Nationals!!!!!  So I can't say I
sympathize for you much (I do empathize though).

Second, you guys complaining about them showing John instead of the Canadian,
doesn't help the Men's situation.  John won the darn event.  I think he
deserves a couple of minutes of coverage.  Why is it okay that they sit and
watch Kristie Powell forever after she messes up floor when they could've
been showing someone else?!!!  I don't understand you guys.  Maybe now you
guys can start to understand how we men supporters feel at each and every
meet.  The frustration you are feeling now happens to us all the time.

Please, the guys aren't in the best situation as it is, please don't make it
worse.  At least (I'm assuming) you get to see your top girls at Canadian
Nationals.  The last time they showed men at nationals was 1992!!!!!!

-The Die Hard Revolter for USA Men's Gymnastics


Date:    Mon, 4 Mar 1996 13:06:05 -0800
Subject: GYMN-L Collegiate Update vol. 1, no. 18

                      GYMN-L's Collegiate Update
                           Volume 1, no. 18
                             Mar. 4, 1996


1. Missouri vs. Oklahoma (W)
2. UIC vs. U. of Illinois (M)
3. NAGL Championships (M)
4. Alabama vs. Georgia (W)


    *****Item number 1.18.1*****

Date:         Sat, 02 Mar 96 01:29:56 CST
From: ***
Subject:      Missouri vs. Oklahoma (W)

University of Missouri vs. University of Oklahoma
Columbia, MO

MISSOURI           192.200               OKLAHOMA           191.800
VAULT               47.450               VAULT               48.000
Katie Sutter         9.275               Leslie Williamson    9.300
Amanda Peterson      9.400               Kari Ellis           9.625 (5)
Jodi Emery           9.450               Shannon Olson        9.650 (4)
Chrissy Harkey       9.625 (5)           Teresa McGrath       9.350 (1)
Charise Schrupp      9.000               Diane Cushenberry    9.675 (3)
Jessica Haag         9.700 (2)           Melissa Griffith     0.000

BARS                48.150               BARS                47.175
Kelly McKinnie       9.375               Tenby Dettman        9.200
Jessica Haag         9.225               Shannon Olson        9.375
Amanda Peterson      9.575 (6)           Teresa McGrath       9.350
Jodi Emery           9.800 (1)           Kari Ellis           9.625 (3)
Katie Sutter         9.625 (3)           Melissa Griffith     9.150
Chrissy Harkey       9.775 (2)           Diane Cushenberry    9.625 (3)

BEAM                48.325               BEAM                48.650
Katie Sutter         9.625               Tenby Dettman        9.700 (6)
Jessica Haag         9.375               Kari Ellis           9.700 (6)
Amanda Peterson      9.150               Shannon Olson        9.550
Charise Schrupp      9.725 (5)           Teresa McGrath       9.875 (1)
Chrissy Harkey       9.775 (4)           Diane Cushenberry    9.825 (2)
Jen Hillman          9.825 (2)           Leslie Williamson    8.350

FLOOR               48.325               FLOOR               47.975
Chanda Johnson       9.500               Leslie Williamson    9.625 (6)
Katie Sutter         9.650 (3)           Tenby Dettman        9.200
Amanda Peterson      9.525               Kari Ellis           9.525
Jessica Haag         9.650 (3)           Diane Cushenberry    9.625 (6)
Chrissy Harkey       9.650 (3)           Teresa McGrath       9.875 (1)
Charise Schrupp      9.800 (2)           Shannon Olson        9.325

1) Teresa McGrath    OU  38.850
2) Chrissy Harkey    MU  38.825
3) Diane Cushenberry OU  38.750
4) Kari Ellis        OU  38.475
5) Katie Sutter      MU  38.175
6) Jessica Haag      MU  37.950

-Melissa Griffith apparently injured her neck during vault warm-ups.  She
competed bars, then was nowhere to be found when her name was flashed on the
scoreboard to compete on vault.  After the meet, I saw her walking around with
a neck brace on.

-Without my media guide next to me, I do know that Harkey and Sutter both set
career all-around highs tonight.  Mizzou also scored a team high tonight,
boosting their chances at qualifying for central regionals.

-Mizzou also had two exhibition beam routines from Beth Remillong and Jennifer
Shear.  Jennifer will probably read this post, so I had to throw that in. :)

Missouri's next meet is the 2nd Annual Corvette Cup, March 10 at 2 p.m. at


    *****Item number 1.18.2*****

From: ***
Subject: UIC vs. U. of Illinois (M)
Date: Sun, 3 Mar 96 16:48:32 CST

Results from UIC vs. the U. of Illinois

1. Greg McGlaun (U of I)   9.6
2. Carey Reddick (UIC)     9.4
3. Gareth Robinson (UIC)   9.3
     U of I - 37.2
     UIC    - 37.15

Parallel Bars
1. Matt Redman (U of I)    9.6
2. Yuval Ayalon (U of I)   9.45
3. Chase Penny (UIC)       9.4
   Goncalo Macelo (U of I) 9.4
   Greg McGlaun (U of I)   9.4
     U of I - 37.85
     UIC    - 37.0

Horizontal Bar
1. Shannon Welker (UIC)    9.7
   Yuval Ayalon (U of I)   9.7
2. Matt Redman (U of I)    9.65
   Goncalo Macedo (U of I) 9.65
3. Greg McGlaun (U of I)   9.625
     U of I - 38.625
     UIC    - 37.45

Floor Exercise
1. Carey Reddick (UIC)     9.8
2. Shannon Welker (UIC)    9.75
3. Greg McGlaun (U of I)   9.65
     U of I - 38.3
     UIC    - 38.55

Pommel Horse
1. Chase Penny (UIC)       9.85
2. Carey Reddick (UIC)     9.7
3. Robert Gargano (UIC)    9.55
     U of I - 37.1
     UIC    - 38.55

Still Rings
1. Shannon Welker (UIC)    9.85
   Goncalo Macedo (U of I) 9.85
2. Jason Orna (UIC)        9.75
3. Yuval Ayalon (U of I)   9.65
     U of I - 38.3
     UIC    - 38.5

All Around
1. Yuval Ayalon (U of I)   57.1
2. Chase Penny (UIC)       56.35
3. Carey Reddick (UIC)     56.25

University of Illinois         = 227.375
University of Illinois-Chicago = 227.2


    *****Item number 1.18.3*****

Date: Mon, 4 Mar 1996 14:54:39 -0500
From: ***
Subject: NAGL Championships (M)

Results from North Atlantic Gymnastics League Championships
at Radford University on Sun March 3, 1996

William and Mary        217.35
James Madison U.        211.75
Radford                 156.55
City College of NY      138.95
Cortland State          102.55


    *****Item number 1.18.4*****

From: ***
Date:          Mon, 4 Mar 1996 14:27:29 CDT
Subject:       Alabama vs. Georgia (W)

Alabama (8-1)197.55  Georgia (10-1)196.675

Bama posted the highest team score in school history at 197.55, breaking the
old mark of 197.40 set last year against Georgia.  They also set a
new school record on floor with a 49.525, all in front of a
Southeastern Conference and Coliseum record crowd of 13,563.
Georgia started on bars with a break when Leslie Angeles hit her foot
on her full-twisting Tkatchev.  Karin Lichey broke when she was
setting up for her piked Jaeger and ended up with 2 extra swings.
Lori Strong hit for a 9.9 and Leah Brown nailed her double front
dismount after falling on it several times during warmup.  Bama
tallied a 49.2 on vault not having to count Kim Bonaventura's falls
on both front pikes.
     Bama moved to bars and scored the second highest total in school
history at 49.425, led by first place finisher Stephanie Woods at
9.925.  Kim Kelly has added her RO back tuck mount back into her
routine.  Georgia gained big ground on vault with a 49.7 and a 10.0
from Leah Brown.
     The third rotation was Georgia's demise as three girls had
breaks.  Stacey Galloway went out of bounds, Karin Lichey put her
hands down on her piked full-in and Kim Arnold put her hands down on
her double tuck final pass.  Bama went to beam and scored the second
highest total in school history at 49.4.
     The final rotation only saw one fall.  Leslie Angeles fell on
her flight series but the rest of the Georgia squad hit.  Lori Strong
nailed her double tuck dismount for the beam win at 9.95.  Meredith
Willard was the floor winner at 9.95.  Kim Kelly has changed her
floor music and is now using  "Yeah Alabama/Sweet Home Alabama" mix.
She scored 9.925 for her four tumbling passes.
     Meredith Willard was tops in the all-around at 39.65 breaking her
record again while Lori Strong was second at 39.625.
     I was very pleased with the Alabama crowd as no one booed for
Georgia.  Everyone applauded when they fell, for a confidence booster,
and applauded when they finished their routines.
  **One of the highlights of the meet was the performances by
Paulette Hunt.  He, or "she", I should say, performed on beam and
   Another interesting note.  I had said in the past that if Georgia
hits they would win.  196.675 +1.00(for 2 counted falls)=197.675.
Bama needs work on vault;  throwing five 10.0 vaults with 2 being
inconsistent so far, Kim Bonaventura's front pike, which she can do
very well but has only competed on vault a few times this season,
and Marna Neubauer's front 1/2.
***3 out of the last 4 regular season meetings between Bama and
Georgia, it has SNOWED, which is rare for the south.


  The "GYMN-L Collegiate Update" is a twice-weekly collection of news on the
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End of GYMN-L Digest - 4 Mar 1996 - Special issue