GYMN-L Digest - 3 Jul 1996 to 4 Jul 1996 - Special issue
There
are 22 messages totalling 614 lines in this
issue.
Topics in this special issue:
1. Flash photography at gym meets
2. Nadia Swatch Watch
3. What did Bela
say?
4. comments
about OT (long)
5. MOceanu's FX Start Value
6. Did the Trials set a record?
7. TV Alert
8. Gymnasts not finishing routines
9. kERRI
STRUG
10. Dominique and kerri
11.
Bill Foster & reality
12.
GYMN-L Digest - 3 Jul 1996 - Special issue
13. Attn: BETH GOLDER
14. Observations (2)
15. idea for
7-6-5 revision
16. Continuation
of last note
17. COACHING
JOB
18. Moceanu
in Atlanta?
19. Great NBC
Coverage
20. NBC converage, women's trials...
21. Olympics and Positive Thoughts!
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 06:14:42
-0400
From: ***@CAPITALNET.COM
Subject:
Re: Flash photography at gym meets
Jennifer wrote:
>Suggestion
here: Try "pusing" the film instead. Open
up your
>f-stop as far as possible, push the
film to 1,600 or 3,200 and
>work from there.
You might get some usable pictures.
Unless you develop your own film,
there's a >gotcha< here. Pushing your
film
also means the film must be push-processed. When you take your film
into a photofinisher, you will have to tell them what ASA
you pushed it to.
As different chemicals (or a different mix) are required, MOST
custom
photofinishers will charge you extra (up to
double) for push processing.
This cannot be done in an hour either, like at
a Motophoto or Price Club,
etc.
I
was also in attendance at the Fleet Center for the U.S. Olympic Trials
all weekend. The
announcer was asked to say, "If you cannot turn off your
flash, then please cover it up". Um... duh... this does NOT
work. The
flash
will still go off, visibily, annoying everyone around
you, the police
(or whoever those husky uniformed
men with hats were) will hunt you down in
your
seats, AND all your shots will be shamefully WAY underexposed.
My
Minolta Maxxum cameras do all this automatic stuff so
I can't push film.
If you're intent on shooting during competition, get
FAST film like Fuji
800 Super G, 1600 Super HG, Kodak Royal Gold 1000, or Ektapress 1600 Plus
colour print film, or Kodak Tmax
3200 black & white print film.
The film
will be more expensive but not the
processing and well worth it in terms of
results.
Otherwise,
save your flash photography for the pageantry, ceremonies, and
post-meet celebrations.
Actually, it was quite remarkable how hundreds of
flashes
went off during the Springfield College Tableaus performances on
both nights of optionals. It was like fireworks!
Speaking
of which, on both nights, I ran out of film before they lit the
torch so if anyone has a nice shot of the Tableaus' finale, I'll
trade for
a nice action shot (of which I have many
- men & women). E-mail me.
Regards,
Grace
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 06:31:03
-0400
From: ***@CAPITALNET.COM
Subject:
Re: Nadia Swatch Watch
No Name wrote:
>I am wondering if anyone
has seen the Nadia Swatch watch? There is a series
>of
pictures on the strap. All are from the 1976 Olympics, except the one at
>the top. Nadia's competition number was 73 from the 1976
Olympics, but the
>top picture shows Nadia in a
leotard with the number 38 performing either a
>Comaneci dismount on
bars (most likely) or a cuervo on vault. Therefore
this
>picture is not presumably from the 1976
Olympics. Just out of curiosity,
>does anyone
know from which competition this top picture was taken?
I have one of
these Swatches. The top image might
be from the pre-Olympic
event. My memories from 20 years ago aren't
that clear. To me, it kinda
looks like her double
twist on floor.
BTW, there's a big huge one (working clock) hanging at
the Swatch booth at
the Prudential Center in
Boston. Nadia and Bart made an
appearance there
on Saturday. The lineup looked rather long. I was having a sandwich
outside, enjoying a few brief moments of sun between
Congress sessions.
Did any of you actually go to this? Did they do a demo? The giant Nadia
Swatch was padded
like a mat. I wondered if they'd
lay it out on the
ground so she'd tumble on
it.
Regards,
Grace
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 06:39:05
-0400
From: ***@CAPITALNET.COM
Subject:
What did Bela say?
I just watched the NBC
broadcast of the US Olympic Trials.
Towards the end
of the women's compulsories
show, they zoom in on Bela Karolyi
sitting
there obviously enjoying the evening. He turns to the camera and sputters
what sounds like, "Ha ha ha... Grafaglog, I get you palinka for this!", and
then slaps hands with the cameraman. I don't have a
Transylvanian-English
English-Transylvanian dictionary
handy. Could someone please
translate?
Regards,
Grace
<Don't ask me what I'm doing
up so early this morning...>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 10:18:29
-0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject:
comments about OT (long)
In a message dated 96-07-03 06:07:23 EDT, you
write:
<<
If they "fix" it so that Moceanu
makes it to the all
around final, it will be one the biggest farces in
gymnastics history. >>
ABSOLUTELY!!! Let's just say for a minute that Dom M
will be in good shape
for the Olympics. If she does the same FX as she did at nationals, it
will
only be out of a 9.9! Therefore, it would certainly be unfair
to put her on
floor when other gymnasts are more
capable. (like
Chow or Borden)
Speaking of Chow, I really didn't like her floor. I don't know about the
issue of the music being offensive, but I felt it was
completely unsuited to
her personality. I thought it was interesting to see her
on compulsary
floor,
doing a routine to classical-type music.
It looked so much better on
her! With her body type and personality, I
think classical or some type of
lighter music
would be much better for her.
I'm so happy for Amanda Borden! She had so much energy in her floor
routine.
Did you see her near
triple full in her second pass?!! :)
I'm also
happy for Kerri Strug. Has anyone else noticed that she has her
best meets (eg, these OT's and the American Cup) When
she can get the total
attention of Bela? (No Dom M
to worry about)
I was really happy to see Mary Beth Arnold and Kulikowski at OTs.
I realized
that out of all of the
competitors, they were the only 2 I had never seen
compete! I really liked Mary Beth's beam. Original choreography.
I was
disappointed at Dom Dawes' compulsary beam. No, she didn't fall, but
it really was a terrible routine. The announcers really didn't pick up
on
it, but I had seats right behind the beam, and
could see clearly her major
mess up on her mount,
and her shakiness throughout the entire routine.
Now, two quick
questions: How is Marta Karolyi a head coach for the Olympic
team? I thought she was only a beam
coach. Also, Jeff asked about if
we
could hear John Tesh
in the Fleet Center. No, he wasn't
announcing, but I
swear I could hear his
voice. Was I the only one? During the gymnasts' beam
routines, when the arena was silent, I heard quiet, but
annoyingly persistant
static
sounds that were obviously words. (though they were
undecipherable) My
mom, who was sitting with me,
picked up on this too. Let me know
if you
heard this too!
I just got back
from Boston, so this was my first chance to comment on the
trials... that's why this is so long :) Thanks for bearing with me!!!
Jenny
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 10:31:53
-0400
From: ***@YORKU.CA
Subject:
MOceanu's FX Start Value
Even
though I've made it no secret that I'm not a Moceanu
fan, I
think her floor start value needs to be
clarified. USA Elite meets are
judged using competition 3 rules, which require 2
"D" moves just to get
the base score of
9.4; therefore you don't start getting bonus for an
extra
"D" until your third "D". The floor routine that Dominique did
at
USA"s this year would start from a 10 in both team (comp.1b) and AA
finals
(comp.2) at the Olympic Games. In her tumbling alone she had 4
"D"
moves, plus adequate special
connections bonus, which would give her the
10 SV even in
competition 2. The judges at
USA's obviously didn't give
her credit for her cat
leap 2/1 as this is a "D" move and her routine
would
therefore have started from 10. Btw
she could even water down her
tumbling from USA's
and start from a 10.0 in Atlanta in the team event: in
competition1b
only three "D"s, or 1 D and one E plus full connection bonus
is needed for the 10.0 Start Value.
Again, I just thought that this should be cleared up.
Chris.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 11:10:26
-0400
From: ***@UKY.CAMPUS.MCI.NET
Subject:
Re: Did the Trials set a record?
I believe you'll find that the 1991
Worlds at the Hoosier Dome in
Indianapolis set the US record, if not
all-time, for attendance at a gym meet.
Chris
>
>On Friday night the attendance was announced
at over 16,500, and on Sunday
>night (women's optionals) the attendance was almost 17,500!! That WAS
a
>FleetCenter attendance record, but I'm not
sure about gymnastics in general.
>
>Lynanne
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 11:35:27
-0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject:
TV Alert
I was browsing through the TVguide
and I noticed that on ABC's WWOS this
week, they
are going to be broadcasting the Europeans from Birmingham. It is
on at 4:30 Eastern. Does anybody know if this was the
Europeans that were
supposed to be on two weeks
ago, when boxing was on instead?
yours in
gymnastics,
Shari
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 12:06:50
-0400
From: ***@VAXC.HOFSTRA.EDU
Subject:
Re: Gymnasts not finishing routines
How about Tatiana Lissenko at the 91 worlds after hurting her fingers. I
can't
remember but I am almost posotive she walked off in a
dazed impression
Alisa
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 12:16:42
-0400
From: ***@VAXC.HOFSTRA.EDU
Subject:
Re: kERRI STRUG
Hi Leanne,
I can't tell
you how much I agree with you. I
think Kerri's form on beam
is great. I think she chould
compete on every event.
As far as uneven bars go, I would take moceanu out.
How ever, since that
event is the least
pounding on her leg, then I think that the coaches
will
put her on that event rather than any other.
You must also consider
politics. Moceanu
and strug are the head coaches
gymnasts. IMO both will be in contention to make
AA. I don't think
moceanu should, but since bela still has his influence.....
As for mary lee, there is NO way she will
take phelps off any event.
IMO the two gymnasts
who have the greatest chance of suffering are
shannon and dom. d.
A sham too since both could
win.
Well Just my opinion. Alisa
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 12:21:17 -0400
From: ***@VAXC.HOFSTRA.EDU
Subject:
Re: Dominique and kerri
I saw something at
trials that I really liked. It
seems that dom. m.
truly admires kerri. She was
seen trying to catch up with her, and as
kerri approached dom's face
went from the pout she had on all day to a
huge
smile. Just my
opinion, and a nice thing to see.
Alisa
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 13:18:54
-0400
From: ***@MINDSPRING.COM
Subject:
Bill Foster & reality
Well, I for one am happy to finally find out
that a reality is defined
as being only one's own
opinion. Although I offered up the possibility
that
Tom Forster had his head down out of disappointment FOR his girls,
I would
like to point out, yet again, that we spectators are free to
form opinions on coaches as we would on politicians, movie
stars et al.,
and that if I were a parent (which
would make me one of those worthless
spectators)
that I would be disgusted if my daughter had just had her
heart broken in the trials but her coach wasn't there to
comfort her
because he was having a hissy
fit.
Just my opinion and ... (see below)
--
--- Jeff
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 13:22:31
-0400
From: ***@MINDSPRING.COM
Subject:
Re: GYMN-L Digest - 3 Jul 1996 - Special issue
That sounds a bit
exaggerated to me. The duration depends on where
you're
going from/to as there can be train changes involved, but I'd say
offhand that to go from anywhere on the Perimeter (I285) to
the center
of downtown Atlanta where the
gymnastics are held is about 30 minutes
without
changes, and MARTA lets you out right next to the Georgia Dome.
Keep in mind, they're expecting the MARTA lots to be full by
7am.
--
--- Jeff
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 02:28:04
-0700
From: ***@IX.NETCOM.COM
Subject:
Attn: BETH GOLDER
Beth,
Thanks
for the great wishes from you, Rhiann, and your
entire club!
I lost your email address, so I wasn't able to send this
to you
privately.
I appreciate you taking
the time to send the note!
Mihai
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 14:54:00
EDT
From: ***@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
Subject:
Observations
I think a reason that Kristy Powell went back to Aladdin
music is
because so many gymnasts started using
"Fugue" performed by Vanessa-Mae.
Not only Mary Beth, but many college athletes, and a bunch of other top
gymnasts.
However, I think Kristy's choreography was the best out of
all the Fugue routines.
In response to Jeff's
comments, I think the US needs Amanda on the team.
There has
been so many problems with team unity in the past, and Amanda
really brings everyone together. I mean, you
could see the difference
in the 1994 World Team
(with Amanda) and the 1995 World Team (wihtout).
Her
major contributions may not be in score, but in spirit, which may
prove more valuable in the end.
I too noticed a bit
of hostility between Kerri and Shannon.
I also
noticed it at the 1996
Nationals. Kerri was talking and
laughing with
Jennie Thompson and when Shannon came over to have Jennie
unpin her
competition number, Kerri immediately
froze up and left. Anyone know
the history of this?
I agree that Forster's actions
did not LOOK good, but TV has a way of
focusing on
unimportant things. I too was a
little offended by how the
profile of Tom and
co. said
that he gave up his Olympic dreams in high
school,
and now they rested with his athletes, but NBC made it out to be
that way--NOT Tom Forster. I agree that he was probably
disappointed
FOR his athletes. And there is a lot of pressure since Tom
so publicly
opposes harsh training methods to show
that you can still get results in
a positive
environment. I think the Forsters are some of the best
people
to come though gymnastics in a while.
(Besides Mary Lee Tracy,
of course!) Their
gymnasts are well-rounded individuals as well as great
athletes. A gymnasts who used to train with the Forsters attends Penn
State and as a freshman has
proved to be one of the best gymnasts Penn
State has ever seen. Besides this, though, she is very kind and
very
well-adjusted.
I seriously don't
think that Dom Moc will be up to competing in
Atlanta.
If she and Bela are this upset about it,
that should tell everyone
something. I hope she's not pushed past her limit
so that she may
compete in future competitions. Her career should not be over at
14.
(And college gymnastics is out of the question since she gave up
her
eligibility at the knowledgable
age of 12...)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 15:04:14
-0500
From: ***@ASTRO.OCIS.TEMPLE.EDU
Subject:
idea for 7-6-5 revision
My partner, who isn't
all that interested in gymnastics but who patiently
listens to my thoughts anyway, just came up with an idea for
revising the
7-6-5 rule to make it more
tolerable.
What would you think of a system whereby the coaches
decided which six
gymnasts they want to have
compete in each event. Then all
seven gymnasts
compete, but the score of the
seventh doesn't count toward team competition
no
matter how good it is. It does, however,
count toward qualification for
AA and event finals.
With
that system in place, coaches could choose the best gymnasts on each
event for the team competition without jeopardizing anyone's
chances in the
finals.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 15:09:00
EDT
From: ***@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
Subject:
Continuation of last note
Sorry, sent it by accident.
Considering
Dom Moc's condition, and also considering that Marta
is head
coach, I think Dom will be on the team but
should not compete in all
events. Especially not on floor--her start value
before this big layoff
was 9.9 and obviously her
tumbling is not up to par with top athletes,
even
on the US team. That said, here's
who I think should compete
optional routines:
VAULT--Strug, Dawes, Chow, Phelps, Miller, Moceanu
(if healthy enough)
UBARS--Strug, Dawes, Chow,
Phelps, Miller, Borden
BEAM---Strug, Dawes, Chow,
Phelps, Miller, Borden
FLOOR--Strug, Dawes, Chow,
Phelps, Miller, Borden
Seeing this, I really think that having Dom Moc on the team will hurt
the
US. I am also concerned about Dom
herself. There is no way that
she will be in any kind of shape to compete at a high level,
and if she
does, I really think it could end her
career. What for? One or two
routines
which will surely not be her best?
I think Dom should focus on
the long-term,
not just the Olympics. It hurts me
to see her suffering
mentally right now, but I'd
hate to see her compete, not do well, and
retire
feeling like a failure. I don't
know what I'd do as her coach.
But I'm not her coach, so that's one less
decision I'll have to make.
Miller is obviously not out of shape at
all, I am sure she'll be up to
Atlanta standards.
What does
everyone think of having Kulikowski on the team? I'm all for
it--let
Dom heal and be in Sydney 2000.
Joy :)
PS-Did the people who
requested the Kim Kelly article ever get it? I've been
having
computer problems and I'm not sure if they were ever send. E-mail me
privately and let me know if I need to send it
again.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 15:17:38
-0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject:
COACHING JOB
Looking for a girls team coach
(levels 5-9) and/or a head boys coach. New
(8 months old) gym in
Michigan that is growing quickly (400+ students, with
42
on team). There is a
tremendous opportunity here for growth and
responsibility, in an affluent, highly populated area,
30 miles west of
Detroit. Great
gym with pits and in-ground tumble trak, pleasant
working
environment. Need someone with energy, enthusiasm and
ideas. Philosophy of
gym is upbeat, playful and innovatitive.
Motto of gym is "all children are
stars."
Lots of opportunity for advancement, travel.
Experience
with gym management, computer skills, and marketing and
fundraising
a plus.
Contact ***@aol.com.
or
All Star Gymnastics
235 E. Main St.
P.O. Box
147
Northville, MI 48167
810-380-5330
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 15:15:20
-0600
From: ***@ZEPHYR.MEDCHEM.PURDUE.EDU
Subject:
Moceanu in Atlanta?
One thing that I do find
distressing is that Moceanu seems to
be thinking (by her words -ALL I worked for all my life)
that if she
doesn't compete in Atlanta then she
blew it. I think that with alot more
maturing she could be a better gymnast. She might not be the
'olympic
champ' but that is a long shot anyway and she could even
qualify to
AA and not win a medal. Does that mean she failed? I see alot of
pressure on this
athlete and even though I dislike her gymnastics
i feel it is stupid of her or anyone to measure her
success and
hard work by an AA gold medal. By that
measure, only a handfull
of
gymnast would be a success. Someone needs to talk to her.
Jeff
Dina,
Dina, Dina.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 16:31:28
-0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject:
Great NBC Coverage
To All:
I was on the phone Monday with a
co-worker, and she started talking to me
about the
men's gymnastics meet she had seen on Saturday. (The trials, of
course.) She went on to say how exciting it was and how she
was cheering so
loudly for Chainey
Umphrey.
I was a bit taken aback by
this conversation. This woman is NOT a
gymnastics
fan, nor did she know I was. She simply brought this up in normal
conversation. She went on to name the various competitors
and tell me about
their routines. (Saturday was
the first men's gymnastics meet she had ever
seen.)
After a few minutes, I told
her of my involvement with gymnastics and
began
questioning her on what she liked about the broadcast. She, of course,
liked all the little side stories that made the competitors
more "human" and
likeable to the average
person.
I think on
the Gymn list, we get too wrapped up in ourselves and
what WE
think a broadcast should be. The fact of
the matter is that we likely
represent less than 1
percent of the market that NBC (and other stations) are
aiming
for.
I watched
both the mens and the womens
trials over the weekend and was
overwhelmingly
pleased with their coverage. The opening segments were
particularly
wonderful and were perfect for drawing in non-gymnastics fans to
the show. (That's how my friend was drawn in.)
On a related note, a lot of
people pick on some of the commentators
because
they say certain things again and again, but we only notice that
because we watch EVERY broadcast. For the average non-fan,
those comments are
important -- just as the
recurring stories about Shannon, Dominique, etc.,
are
important.
I'm sure there are track fans and volleyball fans out there who are
bothered by certain
commentators, but you and I likely wouldn't be bothered
because
we so rarely would be watching such broadcasts.
The same is true with
most people of the gymnastics broadcasts.
I applaud NBC for
their coverage and thank them for giving our sport a
special
boost.
-- Ronald
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 14:07:35
PDT
From: ***@CISCO.COM
Subject:
Re: NBC converage, women's trials...
Just wanted to say --
particularly since I have been receiving some
very
nice email from NBC about my comments on trials over the weekend
that
I may have been too hard on them in my last message...
I thought
coverage was good (better than usual.)
Moreover, I thought
that it looked like NBC
had listened to comment HERE! In
particular,
I though that the ratio of actual gymnastics to
"commentary" was high,
and the decisions
to focus on the "bottom" positions (including human
interest segments on FORMER near-olympians)
was "interesting". I
also
appreciated that the competing athletes were
more-or-less left alone.
Chops
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 17:49:17
-0400
From: ***@VAXC.HOFSTRA.EDU
Subject:
Re: Observations
I thought about one thing regarding dom m. and karoly. We all know that
karoly has shall we say a flair for the dramatic
side. Could everyone be
hyping dom's injury, so that when
she performs brilliantly in atlanta
everyone can be so impressed with how she overcame
adversity?
I certainly hope not.
Alisa
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Jul 1996 16:25:00
CST
From: ***@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU
Subject:
Olympics and Positive Thoughts!
I've been packing & shopping &
getting ready to go to Atlanta.
I'll be
there for 3 weeks as an assistant
with the scoring. I am starting to
get
excited!
Anyhow, while at USAG
Congress last week, I attended a session on "Olympic
Protocol"
meant for those of us who will be volunteering there. A point
that
was heavily emphasized about being POSITIVE. While we as Americans
love our freedom of speech and chances to talk &
speculate, the rest of the
world, and the rest of
the world's judges don't necessarily come from the
same
background. Negative talk can be
VERY damaging and rude to our
visitors from
throughout the world.
So what we all can do, is to stay positive about
ALL the gymnasts, American
and foreign. "Setting up" other judges with
negative talk and speculation
may actually be a
detriment to the US kids. This is
an International list,
and most certainly judges,
coaches and officials from throughout the world
are
"listening in."
I thought it might be an important point to
share. I know there are some
on the list that could take offense at the suggestion that
their speech be
less than open and free. But, positive talk and affirming
thoughts may be
the supportive and helpful
feedback we can give in working towards the best
and
most exciting Olympic Games ever.
On to Atlanta, and GO
GYMNASTICS!!
--Robin
------------------------------
End of GYMN-L
Digest - 3 Jul 1996 to 4 Jul 1996 - Special issue
***************************************************************