GYMN-L Digest - 2 Jul 1996 to 3 Jul 1996

There are 9 messages totalling 340 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Goodbye
  2. Team unity
  3. All Around
  5. GYMN-L Digest - 2 Jul 1996 - Special issue (2)
  6. more re us trials
  7. 2 q's re Alexis Brion
  8. Opinion of the Masses...


Date:    Tue, 2 Jul 1996 22:34:43 -0400
From:    ***@INETNOW.NET
Subject: Goodbye

Please, please, please. If anyone disagrees with me on this forum, e-mail me
privately. I don't understand why some people insist on insulting me
publicly and on a personal level. Nearly everybody who has done this has
misquoted me, used incorrect grammar, and lots of misspelled words. I will
no longer response to any of the venom spewed on this forum.

This is ridiculous. IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY TO ME, E-MAIL ME. Don't
misspell my name, don't post really off-base (spelled correctly) accusations
against me, and don't try to publicly insult me. I have never insulted a
member of this forum (not intentionally). I have never slandered or called
another forum member names. And I never will. It's seems that some people on
this forum use that as their method of debate- insults, name-calling, and

This is entirely the reason why I dislike some of the members of the forum
so much. The personal insults. I am sorry some people hate me so much that
they have to spread lies about me to other forum members. I tried to use a
creative screen name  (Underdog) to be interesting and fun. But since some
people don't wish to respect my "handle", I will not longer use it. It seems
that they would prefer to insult me personally.

Look at this garbage:

I also think that you are way off bse in saying these things Galfar.  First
off, there may be a few who don't answer mail but most do, so for you to say
that a lot throw mail away is wrong.  IMO, you need to stop posting things
that you know cause contravesry, when I first came on I was warned about
you, and about now i need to be writing a thank you to the person who warned
me.  You are constantly making comments just to get responses, and I think
that you really need to get a life.  You make some very valid comments too,
don't get my wrong, but perhaps you should think before you post.

It is also our responsibility (that is the rest of us on the list) to ignore
these stupid comments and not give him the satisfaction of us writing back.

Just my two cents!


Look at this, LOOK at it!!!! Filled with misspelled words, incorrect
grammar, and personal insults. It looks like a 8 year old wrote this. This
is pitiful.

Well, people you have gotten your wish. I am outta here. If I am such the
Satan some of you claim, it would be futile to stay here. This man wasted
valuable space to insult me publicly. He should be chastised by other forum
members. Now, you have lost a good forum member because of the hateful
insults and remarks of a personal level made against him, UNJUSTLY.

I appreciated and enjoyed communicating with those of you who are decent,
kind, intelligent, and knowledgeable gym fans, like myself. I have tried to
be witty, incisive, entertaining, and sometimes provocate. Is there no room
for debate, and yes, sometimes "controversy"? Is the entire existence of
this list-serv supposed to only display competition scores, and why you hate
a certain TV announcer (I see personal insults against John Tesh, Kathy
Johnson-Clarke, etc are acceptable)?  What is "controversy"?

But the hostile attitude of SOME, certainly not all, gymn forum members, has
been too much even for me. Ever since I raised the question of whether
Dominique Moceanu was becoming burned out, last April, I have been the
mortal enemy and target of some people on this forum. At the time, I had no
idea that I was raising such a volatile issue. A lot of the information I
presented was based on information readily available in the newspapers,
magazines, and books.

The little-hearted, close-minded, selfish hatemongers finally won. So now I
am gone. Don't celebrate too hard.


Date:    Tue, 2 Jul 1996 22:34:09 -0400
From:    ***@CYBERNEX.NET
Subject: Team unity

        I attended trials, and must say that all of the girls were genuinely
happy for each other.  Shannon and Dominique M talked for a good 20 min
before optionals began, and after routines, Amanda, Kerri, and Jaycie
congratulated most of their competitors.  Before the team was announced all
of the athletes and coaches were no more than 15 feet from me, and most were
in tears of joy. Most notably Amanda who was hugging everyone in sight.  She
and Kerri talked quite abit.  Once the team was marched out onto the floor
Jaycie and Kerri were joking back and forth.  I think most of the problem
has been the coaches, not the athletes, and maybe they are starting to know
each other better.



Date:    Tue, 2 Jul 1996 22:39:10 -0400
From:    ***@YORKU.CA
Subject: Re: All Around

On Tue, 2 Jul 1996, Artemis wrote:

> Is the process to qualify for the all-around still the same for Atlanta,
> meaning that a maximum of three gymnasts are allowed per country? I would
> have a seriously hard time imagining that Moceanu could even qualify if
> Miller, Dawes and Phelps hit. Now what will the hounds of the media do
> should that happen?
        Yes, only 3 per country can make the AA finals, but unfortunately
under 7-6-5 rule, the coaches could "fix" which three make it by having
only three gymnasts compete on each event.  It is my fear (and that of
many others out there who I know agree with me) that they will make sure
that DomM is one of only three US gymnasts to do all events so that she
will for sure be in the All Around finals.  IMO, Strug, Miller, and Dawes
are the ones who deserve to be in the AA finals, and I'm speaking
gymnastically here.  If they "fix" it so that Moceanu makes it to the all
around final, it will be one the biggest farces in gymnastics history.
Who makes the decision as to who does each event anyway?  The coaches?
Hopefully Marta and Mary Lee will have enough sense to do what is right
and best for team, and let four or five gymnasts fight it out for a spot
in the AA finals.
        ON a side note, if Moceanu is still unable to adequately perform
on all events, I think it would be nice/appropriate to have her maybe only
do one routine (like what Hategan from Romania did in Sabae) just to make
her feel a part of the routine.  But who knows what they will decide?


Date:    Tue, 2 Jul 1996 22:34:51 -0600
Subject: MOCEANU.

If she's healthy and can compete at full force, just think of this:

        Who will play her in the made for TV movie about her life
        (all 14 years of it)?


P.S. Did you ever wonder that if the commentators say that Bela has
the energy to do the routines himself and is always jumping up
and down the reason why he is so fat?

July: Dina appreciation month.


Date:    Tue, 2 Jul 1996 20:48:09 -0700
From:    ***@NETCOM.COM
Subject: Re: GYMN-L Digest - 2 Jul 1996 - Special issue

Re: Flash

Some of the cheaper cameras you cant turn it off.
This is no excuse but it should be remembered.
Also distraction from the flash COULD cause SEVERE injury.
Dont be afraid to accost someone in the stands and tell them
"knock it off or Ill have security throw you out!"

Re: Tesh (you sick of this thread yet ?)

Tesh is on there because hes cute.
Before Tesh we had Dick Button (burnt out skater)

Its been said on this list that we should get some ex-gymnasts on.
Remember Kathy & Bart can be pretty insipid too.
I havent seen Tim Dagget in action yet, but last one I saw of Vidmar doing
commentary I was about to stuff HIS face fulla peanut butter too!

I KNOW who * I * want to see on there, but it'll never happen.
Jason Cohen, ex-stanford, hes great on radio, I bet he could do TV without
making an ass of himself.....


Date:    Wed, 3 Jul 1996 00:55:13 -0400
From:    ***@EROLS.COM
Subject: more re us trials

Since I was one of the first to start picking on Tom Forster this time out,
thought I'd amend my comments slightly.  I still think -- not because of
commentary but because of the nature of the expression on his face -- that
his initial reactions to both falls in compulsories was inappropriately
self-pitying (not just disappointed).  I was not the least bit influenced by
any fluff pieces done this time around (though I may have been influenced by
a couple of interviews he has done over the past year that I thought handled
such disappointment poorly).  *However* -- I was quite impressed with how the
whole Colorado crowd handled themselves on Sunday.  Maybe NBC just did a
better job of putting it all in context; I don't know.  But just as I stand
by my interpretation of his reaction on Friday, while grasping that it was
excerpted what were clearly the worst moments of the meet for him and for his
gymnasts, I also don't think the reactions on the floor on Sunday were
anything less than genuine.  (And I agree that Nunno and Karolyi,
historically, have had far more moments that I would argue with than Forster

No-go zones:  I didn't care about the terminology, and liked the focus on the
folks on the bubble, who we likely won't see much of in the games -- but I
thought the presentation, particularly by Tesh, was misleading on the women's
side.  The gulf in adjusted points between 5th and 6th going into optionals
was .431, and between 4th and 6th, it was 1.101 -- and it kept getting
farther apart through optionals, not closer, but NBC kept insisting that the
competition was fast and furious.  There was definitely competition for 6th
place, which could end up amounting to something -- but for the team?  Not
realistically, unless one of the top 5 had a disastrous time on more than one
event.  It was one thing to speculate about this at the outset -- but there
really wasn't much suspense to anything except how the ranking would come out
(between Dawes, Phelps, and Strug for 1st-3d, Chow and Borden for 4th and
5th, with an outside chance for Mary Beth Arnold (who looked great!), and
the race for 6th, just in case).  Oh, well.  At least they treated the
Miller/Moceanu situation straight-up, acknowledging when it became
mathematically impossible for them not to make the team (though Tesh insisted
on claiming that people who were still doing routines had also reached this
point of mathematical impossibility!).

To those who didn't find him so irritating -- it gets really bad if you tape
it and try to listen to it again, as idiocies that escaped you the first time
jump out and the repetitions were you down.

Finally (I promise) Amy Chow's floor -- a dissenting voice on the dance
(though not on the music) -- although this is not the sort of routine I like,
I actually thought that this masked her weaknesses at dance better than
earlier routines had.



Date:    Wed, 3 Jul 1996 00:43:18 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: GYMN-L Digest - 2 Jul 1996 - Special issue

I also attended Trials and here is some thoughts:
Kerri Strug rocked!!!!!!! I can't say enough about her.  Her compulsary floor
lit up the arena, and her optional vault was gorgeous. Her floor was great,
the dance....MUCH IMPROVED! The thing that got me the most was her smile.
Never before has Kerri looked so happy, proud and comfortable performing.
Bela really did it up for her, and it was really nice seeing him get so
excited just for her, It was also cute to hear him call her "the baby", a
nickname he often used for her in '92.  Well, this baby has definately
matured, and if optionals had weighed more.........GO KERRI!
I was also standing in line behind Kim Zmeskal in the bathroom for over 5
minutes before realizing it was her! She looked very content as a spectator!
I also loved Amy Chow, although her tumbling was wonderful the music is a bit
much!  But bars! LOOK OUT! This routine could medal in Atlanta.  Also, after
that fall, I (sitting in the 2nd row by BB and FX,) could see that bump
getting bigger, and I was holding my breath. I knew she still had the full,
rulfolva (sp?) and triple. She handled it great!!  congrats to Amy!
Amanda Bordon's performances definatlely tugged at my heart. After floor I
 had tears in my eyes, sitting in front of her crying dad.  When Mary Lee
looked into her eyes and said "it's for sure honey!"  OHH!
Well, just when I thought I'd dried the tears, I went home and popped my
coverage from NBC in. The story on Moceanu, brought those tears back quick!
My heart is breaking for Dominique, and Bela's comment of how much he loves
her, just tore at my soul.  I really wish they wouldn't have left the camera
on her for so long while she cried. I can'r stop thinking of why this had to
happen to this one, and why now? I don't know how anyone can look in to the
eyes of this little girl or her coach and not pray with her.  I met Dom in
Boston before the meet and she was very sweet. I really wish these negative
comments about her and the media attention would stop. Can't you see she's
hurting enough.
Finally, in all I think we've got ourselves one heck of and Olympic team.  I
just hope the can all stay healthy and united, and pull together for a great
home showing in Atlanta.
To them I say I love you all, and am very proud of the way you represent us!
 Hurry back Dommy!


Date:    Wed, 3 Jul 1996 01:08:07 -0400
From:    ***@EROLS.COM
Subject: 2 q's re Alexis Brion

I have two idle questions about Alexis Brion, after watching her in the
USAIGC championships last month:

(1)  For those who have commented, this year and last, that her dance is
weak, what is it that you mean?  I'm not up on the code for dance, but
certainly I find her routines this year and last much more pleasant to watch
than most -- graceful, polished, expressive, with moves extended, etc.  If it
*is* a lack of difficulty that, in part, enables her to put together such an
expressive routine, is there anything in the new code that would reward these
qualities more effectively?

(2)  I'm not sure whether she has had her hair cut since last year (bangs
look new), but suddenly she reminds me very strongly of an old favorite
gymnast of mine, probably Soviet, probably from the 1970s, but I am blanking
on the name and the old IG's are still back at my mother's house.  One name
that comes to mind is Maria Filatova, but I don't think that's right (though
she was a favorite).  Does this ring any bells for anyone else?

As for gymnasts from other countries -- when did Gina Gogean have the
appendectomy, exactly, and how is it that she really can be back in time for
the Olympics?  Does anyone have any idea what the odds are that she would
compete every event?



Date:    Wed, 3 Jul 1996 01:41:47 -0700
Subject: Opinion of the Masses...

I read alot about people being angry that only Dominique Moceanu is the
only gymnast mentioned on the today show, or that the media (for the most
part) doesn't do a good job representing gymnastics to the public...but
the truth is, the only people who really give a damn is us gymnasts and
true gymnastics lovers...and the mainstream public viewer far outnumbers
us.  I was watching the women's olympic trials with three non-gymnast
friends, and they drove me nuts, and they could not understand why they or
the commentators drove me fact, I found that John Tesh's
oftentimes stupid and annoying remarks played to their ears just fine.  I
finally hit the record button on the VCR and watched it later with a
gymnast friend.

so when the world tunes in the olympics this month, NBC will change
nothing about their commentating because the average viewer doesn't know
any better...And advertisers always go with the it's too
bad, but that's life...


End of GYMN-L Digest - 2 Jul 1996 to 3 Jul 1996