GYMN-L Digest - 2 Aug 1995 to 3 Aug 1995
There are 21 messages totalling 620 lines in this issue.
Topics of the day:
1. Sorta Fan Mail
2. Gutsu (was Re: Trivia Answers #31: Shooting Stars)
3. 90 Junior Euros?
4. '90 European Jrs
5. Topper Pads for sprung floors
7. Newsletter and a couple other things
8. Change in W. Champs Schedul
9. Nationals (2)
10. Info. on W.Champs/Sabae
11. Other Stuff
12. And now for something completely different.
13. Are they related?
14. Gymnastics books (2)
15. the three per country rule (2)
16. Zmeskal's book
17. '89 *and* '90 Jr. Europeans
18. Gymnastics Team Championship of US?
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 22:52:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Sorta Fan Mail
GO BLUE!!!Coach Plocki is awesome...Is your newsletter something that
will be available to us? If so I would be interested...
> I caught people talking about fan mail last week, and I thought I'd just
> post this since I am so happy about it.
> I am putting together a newsletter based on the NCAA women's championships
> from this past year, and wrote to each of the Supper Six schools requesting
> information. I heard back from Michigan yesterday. Plenty of info, many
> pics, and (I think) the media guide they put together. Special thanks
> to Bev Plocki and the Michigan SID. You guys are rgeat. I hope the
> newsletter comes out as nice.
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 23:20:31 -0400
Subject: Gutsu (was Re: Trivia Answers #31: Shooting Stars)
> Gutsu competed in a single Worlds (she wasn't
>at Paris, right?) and imho only had a major impact in '92. Relative to
>Olympic and World champs and medalists who had a "major" impact, her career
>was pretty short-lived.
In this era of lightning quick careers, I'd say Gutsu had actually one of the
She retired at 16, but you have to realize that she had been doing arguably
the most difficult routines quite consistenly since 90.
Major inpact was definitely in 92, but however it WAS in the year of the
Olympic Games and Europeans.
Her major titles have been:
90 Jr Europeans all-around
91 Moscow Stars
91 Worlds Medalist (two silvers, one gold)
91 USSR Nationals
92 Moscow Stars
92 CIS Cup (USSR Nationals)
Not a shabby list over 3 years, especially the consecutive USSR national
titles (the #1 team in the world).
Here's a trivia question: Has any other Jr European champ gone on to win the
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 13:39:36 +1000
Subject: 90 Junior Euros?
> Her major titles have been:
> 90 Jr Europeans all-around
I've never seen a report or video coverage of this meet, and had pretty
much come to the conclusion that it didn't exist........where was it
held and what were the results? During the 1991 Int'l Mixed Pairs, Kathy
Johnson said that Stobtchatia won 90 Junior Euros........but there was a
90 Senior Euros in Athens, and never any mention of the juniors......
I've been wondering about this meet, and if it really existed for a long
time, so if anyone can provide results I'd really appreciate it!
P.S. Does anyone have it on video? Who else was in it?
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 02:15:37 -0400
Subject: '90 European Jrs
There was a meet - though I've never seen video. If anyone has it I'd love
I know that the men's portion at least was held somewhere in Austria. The
USSR team consisted of notables such as Voropaev, Trush, and Ivankov. Along
with Demianov (He was way cool ... anyone know what happened to him?),
Kurilov, and Tichonovich. I had to look the last three up but Voropaev,
Trush, and Ivankov all talked about the meet in various interviews so I knew
the meet had to exist. I think that Voropaev, then 18, earned his spot on the
Soviet team partly due to this meet. I *think* he won the AA, if there even
was one. I know that he had the highest total score after team (57.8
according to _IG_) and got the highest score of the meet on FX.
The Soviet team won by a measly 9+ points over Italy, Bulgaria, East Germany,
and the home team Austrians (*31* points behind the Soviets).
Jr. Europeans added all sorts of obscure championships after '88. Different
venues & years for "Team Championships" seemed to occur almost at random
The Euro Jr. meets I know of in the past three years alone ...
A '92 team championships that featured many of the current Russian stars
(Nemov, Fabrichnova, etc.) among others.
In '93 they held a major joint men and women's AA & EF Jr. championship and
then another "team" championship.
Last year they combined the Jr's and Sr's. There was no team for Jrs that I
know of and for the first time there was a team comp. for Srs.
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 12:04:28 BST
Subject: Re: Topper Pads for sprung floors
Hello Ken, from the U.K.
You asked in your message of 2nd August if there is a special reason why a
closed cell foam structure is used in modern topper pads.
The answer is yes.
I'm afraid that I will have to jump into some technical detail at this
point, so I will apologise to the rest of the GYMNers first, so please bear
The topper mat has to provide two main functions. Firstly to provide
initial absorbtion of the impact of the gymnast making contact, an secondly
to transfer the momentum of the gmynasts landing to create a deflection of
the sprung floor. The rebound is the reverse of this process. Therefore the
foam be soft on initial compression and then to firm up as the compression
increases. In close foam structure the cells are individually sealed and
air cannot pass from cell to cell. This has the effect of producing a foam
with a non-linear elastic coefficient, that is the harder you squash, it
the firmer it gets.
Other foams are mostly open structure, where the air can pass from cell to
cell. These usually have a linear coefficient and are mostly used for
safety matting and crash mats, where the object is to decelerate and
absorb the kinetic energy of the gymnast. These, when used with sprung
floor, will deadenen the rebound as the gymnast's kinetic energy is used up
in compressing the foam rather than deflecting the sprung floor.
Regarding the problem you have see with wrist injuries, this is probably
due to overextension of the wrist joint whe impacting the floor during a
flic, where the joint is pushed deep into the floor leaving the fingers on
the top. This problem is minimised if a closed cell mat is used as the
floor will only give a short distance before firming up, and the wrist
joint is not pushed as deep into the floor. I suspect that the foam you are
using is open cell.
I have also had some experiences of minors injuries that have happened to
wrist and ankles that have occured when routines training on firm matting
has been followed by a competition with a sprung floor, even though the
topping pad was a closed cell structure. At our gym we do not ( yet ) have
the luxury of a sprung floor, however we do make extensive use of a sprung
tumble run. Although the tumble run ( home made ) is a good simulator for
a sprung floor, its characteristics will be different to the competition
floor and will have a different feel, adding uncertainties on landings.
Also many injuries are caused during apparatus warm-ups where excitement,
and the thrill of using a proper competition sprung floor, can sometimes
lead to some over enthusiastic tumbles. Yet another hazard for the poor old
coach to look out for !
I hope this rather lengthy explanation goes some way to clarifying your
query, and wish your club every success in the future.
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 08:00:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Gutsu
>Her major titles have been:
>90 Jr Europeans all-around
I thought Vanda Hadarean won the Jr Euro AA that year. Was Vanda 1991?
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 09:32:27 -0500
Subject: Newsletter and a couple other things
1)The newsletter I am putting togetehr (RE: Sorta Fan Mail) is being
done for my portfolio for journalism. If people want a copy, I
need to know by a certain, which I will set later. I need to make
sure I will get the infor from the other universities first. Also,
there willbe a small charge for it, no overhead, just to cover the
cost of printing it and mailing it. Probably about $1.50 to $2. If
there is a way to post it on the gymn homepage, that won't violate
any laws or anything (ie I might need to check with the coaches) please,
Rachelle, conatc me if you are interested. Otherwise, personal
copies I still need to charge for. Sorry, guys, I'm a broke college
student, I need to at least charge cost (which is all it is. Runs
$.78 for the mail, and about $.50-$.75 for the copy, depending on
the paper I use). It will be professional, to the extent of my knowledge
(which is pretty decent) and will run about 8 pages, with the super
six teams focused on and complete NCAA results included.
2)WEW! That was long. OK, second, I never said it was Sandy Woolsey's
floor music. I SAID it was the Alabama gymnast who was performing on
floor while Sandy Woolsey was on bars. Thanks, Shawn, you just answered
one of my questions. That WAS Meredith Willard on floor. :)
3) A couple of more quick NCAA championships questions. Anyone know if
Meredith Willard was still injured? Her performance level (judging
from scores) seemed to have dropped a little from last year. Also. who
is the girl with the shaggy brown hair in the UTAH team? I've got
everyone else identified (the other blond ponytail is Delaney, right?)
but I don't know who that one girl is. And can SOMEONE from georgia
please tell me who the girl with the short, straight blond hair is. I know
she wasn't competing, but she pulled the springboard for Ballard's beam
OK, folks, that's it for now. Once last note on the newsletter: I agree
that Plocki is cool. Now I hope the other coaches I contacted as as nice.
I'm anticipating good resutls. Cross your fingers, all.
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 14:13:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Change in W. Champs Schedul
While we were discussing the 3 gymnasts per country rule something was
mentioned about the possible elimination of the full World Champs after
Sabae. Is this something that is still being discussed? From what you've
heard (Adriana), is it being done for financial reasons? Although it is
nice (and probably easier financially) to separate the competitions, I think
I would miss the larger gathering every couple of years (besides the
Olympics, of course) of the world's best gymnasts. In addition, the
spectators would no longer have a choice as to what type of competition they
would like to see.
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 14:36:39 -0400
Does anyone have information as to what exactly they're doing with the
Superdome during Nationals this year? Are they using the whole floor for
competition or are they going to split it up somehow? Also, is there any
semi-official word as to who will compete?
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 14:52:08 -0400
Subject: Info. on W.Champs/Sabae
For anyone going to Sabae --
I have information on trains, planes, and hotels
How to get around
That it is near Fukui about 3 hours from Tokyo & 2 hours from Osaka
It is very expensive!!!!!!!!!
I also have the complete schedule and other details.
Please e-mail me if you want information. If there is enough interest I
will put something together for the forum and maybe a WWW page.
Presently I am planning on going, but that is truely contingent upon how
much of this my pay check can cover versus how much will need to go on a
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 14:14:43 CDT
Subject: Re: Other Stuff
I'm not trying to be rude or anything, but referring to your #2,when I wrote the
message yesterday, I DIDN'T say it was Sandy Woolsey's floor music.
I SAID, someone said that Brink's music was the same as the girl's who
was on the floor exercise WHILE SANDY WOOLSEY WAS ON BARS at
NCAA'S. I checked and it was Meredith Willard of Alabama. And I stated what
the music was.
This was part of my original message. Notice I didn't say it was
Sandy's music. I said it was playing while she was on bars.
I sent info on Brink's music the other day about it being "Get Ready
for This" by 2Unlimited. Well, someone had said that it was the same
music playing while Sandy Woolsey was on bars at the NCAA's. I
missed seeing Brink at USOF, but I checked my NCAA's tape and it is
definitely "Get Ready For This". It is used by Meredith Willard by
Again, I'm not trying to be rude but just wanted to clear it up.
As for the shaggy brunette on Utah's team, I believe it is Alyssa
Frenz. No, wait a minute. I think you are talking about Jennifer
Mercier. She didn't compete at NCAA's. I think she's had some nagging
injuries. She is from Parkettes and she may be a senior by now or
graduated, I'm not sure. I keep up with college and stuff
so I pretty much know everbody at the big colleges. Accept, I do
know who you are talking about on the Georgia team, but I don't know
her name. She may be a walk-on and I know she isn't in their media
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 15:56:26 -0600
I bet that they will be using the whole floor. You know, the OLympic
Gymnastics will be held in the "Georgia Dome" where I believe they
will be using the whole floor. (Dome was where Super Bowl was played a
few years ago and is where the Atlanta Falcons play, in case you were
wondering about how big it was.)
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 16:59:48 -0400
Subject: Re: And now for something completely different.
There is no question in my mind that this rule should be gotton
rid of now. If this 3 per country rule were not ineffect Tatiana Gutsu's
victory at the Olympics would not have an asterick beside it.
Anyway having up to 5 or 6 gymnasts from the best country would make
the AA more exciting. Lastly, some specialists might be able to make the
event finals on their best events, if the rule was lifted.
Just my thoughts.
The Mikester Bee
> I was wondering, now with all the changes in gymnastics at the top
> competitions (i.e., "new life" and no compulsories after 1996), do you think
> that the AA should be returned to the actual top 36, including as many
> participants from any country as qualify in the top 36? I was thinking about
> that since in the past there has been at least one situation ('81 worlds)
> where the gymnast who finished fourth could not compete since the top
> 3 were also from her country.
> What do ya think?
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 16:38:55 -0600
Subject: Are they related?
I noticed that when I looked at the 1974 Varna World Championships that there\
was a Romanian Gymnast who finished 14th (I think) named Aurelia Dobre. Now
isn't that a coincidence considering that the 1987 World AA champion Aurelia
Dobre was only 1 year old at the time!
I wonder if they were related?
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 16:23:56 -0700
Subject: Gymnastics books
Has anyone ever read a good fiction gymnastics books? I got one from
the library called Flip City. I don't know the author's name but it was
a good book. Also, Elizabeth Levy writes a series called The Gymnasts
or something like that. They are good too. Especially the Super special
Go for the Gold.
Has anyone read Kim Zmeskal's biography? I was thinking about ordering
but I was wondering if it was any good. Also, for nonfiction books Tim
Dagett wrote Dare to Dream and Bela Karolyi wrote Feel No Fear. Both
are really good autobiographies. Bart Connor has one too but I haven't
read it yet.
Also, I got the tape Bela Karolyi Teaches Gymnastics from the library.
It is a pretty old tape. It teaches how to do certain skills. It had
Kim Zmeskal when she was about 9 (?) and Hilary Grivich when she was
young demonstrating skills. It was cool.
I know I have asked this before but since no one has answered I'll ask
it again. Are gymnasts required to wear a long sleeved leotard in
competition? They can get really hot sometimes, especially when the
arena isn't air conditioned like the Olympic Festival. Just wondering.
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 18:36:28 CDT
Subject: the three per country rule
The rule was originally instituted just before the '76 Olympics to break
up the Eastern bloc domination of the sport and diversify the final 36.
Also the rule was two per apparatus final. Again, the idea was to permit
a larger variety of competitors to make the finals. For example, at the
'74 Worlds, the Soviets took the first four places on beam and swept the
floor exercise. There was a tie for third on beam. However, with the break-
up of the former USSR, maybe the time has come for this rule to be abolished.
During the '76 games, there was also a big ruckus about whether or not
Olga Korbut's scores were deliberately inflated so she would be one the
top three Soviets instead of either Saadi or Grosdova. I don't remember.
Just my thoughts. Brenda
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 17:22:59 -0700
Subject: Zmeskal's book
KIM ZMESKAL: Determination to Win is $9.95 plus $2 shipping for first
book, $1 for eack additional (International orders: $4.00 shipping per
book) (New Jersey residents add 60 cents sale tax per book)
City:____________________ State:___________________ Zip:_______________
Amount enclosed:___________ # of books:___________
Mail check or order (US $ only) to:
The Bradford Book Company
P.O. Box 283
East Hanover, NJ 07936
(allow 4-6 weeks delivery)
That is the order form in my IG for Kim Zmeskal's autobiography. Here
is a description of the book:
Has Kim's career, photos, quotes by Kim and Bela. Look behind the
scenes of a champion! The author is Krista Quiner and Dwight Normile.
I don't think they sell the book at book stores.
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 20:57:05 -0400
Subject: '89 *and* '90 Jr. Europeans
OK, this discussion drove me crazy enough to pull out old magazines :) As
listed in the FIG's Liste des Resultats, there was a UEG Team Champs. in
'89, which was held in Nantes. (The FIG listed these results in the "Jr.
Europeans" section.) On the men's side, the USSR was first (229.05),
followed by the GDR (221.85), FRA (219.45) and ITA (219.15). For the
women, the USSR was first (155.639), then FRA (152.914), BUL (149.639),
TCH (148.588), and HUN (144.438). IG mentions some of the girls' scores:
Viatinina (39.263), Levochkina (38.613), Mermet (38.601), Mitova (38.525)
and Ivancheva (38.275).
The '90 Jr. Team Europeans were held in Austria for the men and Spain for
the women. Since Susan has already mentioned the men's results, I
won't repeat them. Here's some information on the women's competition:
1. USSR 154.275 4. BUL 149.600
2. ESP 151.825 5. FRA 147.175
3. CSFR 150.200
1. Gutsu 39.400 5. Hristakieva 37.800
2. Chusovitina 39.075 6. Colson 37.525
3. C. Fraguas 38.450 7. Kinclova 37.525
4. Mitova 38.000 8. Jantekova 37.225
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 20:08:41 -0400
Subject: Re: Gymnastics books
Kim Zemeskal has an autobiography? Where can you purchase it from? At
the bookstores, I am lucky even if Karolyi's book is out..there usually
is no representation of gymnastics there. I am curious and interested in
purchasing it if it is worth it.
> Has anyone ever read a good fiction gymnastics books? I got one from
> the library called Flip City. I don't know the author's name but it was
> a good book. Also, Elizabeth Levy writes a series called The Gymnasts
> or something like that. They are good too. Especially the Super special
> Go for the Gold.
> Has anyone read Kim Zmeskal's biography? I was thinking about ordering
> but I was wondering if it was any good. Also, for nonfiction books Tim
> Dagett wrote Dare to Dream and Bela Karolyi wrote Feel No Fear. Both
> are really good autobiographies. Bart Connor has one too but I haven't
> read it yet.
> Also, I got the tape Bela Karolyi Teaches Gymnastics from the library.
> It is a pretty old tape. It teaches how to do certain skills. It had
> Kim Zmeskal when she was about 9 (?) and Hilary Grivich when she was
> young demonstrating skills. It was cool.
> I know I have asked this before but since no one has answered I'll ask
> it again. Are gymnasts required to wear a long sleeved leotard in
> competition? They can get really hot sometimes, especially when the
> arena isn't air conditioned like the Olympic Festival. Just wondering.
> Margi :)
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 21:48:40 -0400
Subject: Re: the three per country rule
>However, with the break-
up of the former USSR, maybe the time has come for this rule to be abolished.
The abolition or not of this rule shouldn't be a 'well we don't have to worry
about the USSR anymore' type of response. It should be dumped because it is
and was dumb and unfair. I personally would have chosen to see the Soviets
as the top six in a final if they were the best six! It's incredibly dumb
for #55 to qualify for something while #4 sits on the bench
Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 21:39:25 -0600
Subject: Gymnastics Team Championship of US?
Do you think that a gymnastics team championship of the US would go over?
Suppose you could have 6 gymnasts per team and they could compete in Olympic
order at Nationals. Individuals could compete in a different round to qualify
for AA and EF. Has there ever been abything like this outside of NCAA? What
abotu clubs getting together and fighting it out. I know that there are some
some smaller, private meets, but what do you think about a US National team
chamionship for these clubs? Since the USOF is out of here, shouldn't there be
a national team championship system?
End of GYMN-L Digest - 2 Aug 1995 to 3 Aug 1995