GYMN-L Digest - 1 May 1996 to 2 May 1996 - Special issue

There are 21 messages totalling 640 lines in this issue.

Topics in this special issue:

  1. Spanish team for the European Champs (MAG)
  2. Future Gym Meets
  3. NCAA all-arounders
  4. Brandy Wood
  5. WAG: FX music and et al.
  6. Level 10 National championships
  7. WAG: FX
  8. WAG: Floor ex
  9. "Nadia" actors and re-intro
 10. Statistics
 11. GYMN-L Digest - 1 May 1996
 12. Diane Durham
 13. Level 10 Nationals
 14. Karolyi's is SOLD !!
 15. GYMN-L Digest - 29 Apr 1996 to 30 Apr 1996
 16. Liu's bar routine
 17. Joint the crowd! (Intro)
 18. Sheremeta's music
 19. Sports Acrobatics
 20. Liu' Start Value
 21. Gymnastics costs:  Mike Mayzak


Date:    Wed, 1 May 1996 12:27:22 +-200
From:    ***@JET.ES
Subject: Spanish team for the European Champs (MAG)

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After the Spanish Cup, held in Madrid the last week-end, the Spanish =
team for the European Champs will be definitivelycomposed by:

Jesus Carballo
Omar Cortes
Ortzi Acosta
Carlos Herreros
Alex Barrenechea

Alex Barrenechea work the last month with the Queen City Gymnastics in =
Cincinatti. This gymnast lost two months of preparation before because =
of the departure of our chief coach at the Urgatzi Kirol Klub.

I want to thank publically the help given to us by the Queen City =
Gymnastics and the excellent work done by their coaches, specially Keith =
Pettit, Patrick Jordan and Mike Weber. Without this work, the =
participation of Alex Barrenechea in the European Championships would =
not have been possible.



Date:    Wed, 1 May 1996 10:43:54 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Future Gym Meets

Coaches, Gymnasts, Parents,
I know that the season has almost ended but if anyone has information
regarding upcoming Level 9 & 10 Meets could you please post it on this list.
Our gym has decided to start competing outside the state of Florida and we
would appreciate any info you have. Even if it is tentative or several months
away please post it.
Thanks so much,


Date:    Wed, 1 May 1996 12:59:37 EDT
From:    ***@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU
Subject: NCAA all-arounders

Here ar the NCAA all-round results you requested:

1. Meredith Willard, Alabama  39.450
2. Kristen Guise, Florida  39.425
3. Heidi Hornbeek, Ariz.  39.400
3. Jennifer Wood, LSU  39.400
5. Wendy Marshall, Mich.  39.350
6. Chrissy Vogel, Florida  39.325
7. Jenny Hansen, Kentucky  39.300

23. Leah Homma, UCLA  38.825


Date:    Wed, 1 May 1996 15:49:04 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Brandy Wood

What happened to him at NCAA's??

Mihai and Burch want to know, and I can't find the post that has the actual
injury, rather than the spectator's version.

Please e-mail rather than post to the group...thanks.



Date:    Wed, 1 May 1996 16:13:46 -0400
From:    ***@HICOM.NET
Subject: Re: WAG: FX music and et al.

I agree with Jennifer--actually, the slow part in Milo's routine really shows
what she is capable of.  She is quite expressive, and I feel her ability in
dance is being, well, a bit 'wasted' on the 'cutesy' choreography.  I love
Marinescu's FX--the dance matches the music's quirky style.  I guess my problem
with Milo's FX is that when I see a floor routine with dance that could really
be done to any piece of music--that the dance doesn't really *fit* what's
happening musically--that's when I start to fast forward the VCR to the tumbling
passes.  I don't, for example, fast forward during Pods', because her FX really
enhances her capablities in dance AND tumbling.  I wish Milo's did the same,
because we have seen her dance expertise.

I think, perhaps, a large part of this 'what works and what doesn't' debate for
me is that when the gymnast herself looks like she is *into* the music, I would
be more willing to *buy* the routine, to put it bluntly.  When I see the blank,
stoic face, no emotion, no expression (a la Gogean, or Chusovitina), it almost
seems to me like they themselves don't *buy* the dance, and are just biding
their time before the next tumbling pass.  I certainly don't mean to take away
from such a consistent and successful competitor as Gogean, but she just looks
so uninterested, which makes it kind of difficult for ME to be interested until
she tumbles.

The scoring issue is another entirely.  I didn't necessarily agree with all of
the scoring at PUR Worlds (Liu's UB, Khorkina's UB, Severino's UB, Gogean's V
(!), Portuondo's V (!), to cite a few) .  It almost seemed like reputation
overshadowed obvious mistakes to maintain a 'status quo' and not rock the
proverbial boat before Olympics, IMHO...

My goal is not to disrupt the warm and fuzzy aura of the list, but merely
expressing my _very_ humble opinion.

Warm and fuzzy in New Jersey,


Date:    Wed, 1 May 1996 16:19:06 -0500
From:    ***@PRODIGY.COM
Subject: Re: Level 10 National championships

Is anyone else from the list going to Nationals this weekend?  There
are two girls from my daughter's club who will be competing there and
I would appreciate it if someone could post me their results.  I
believe they are both competing on Saturday.



Date:    Wed, 1 May 1996 16:14:06 -0600
Subject: WAG: FX

I think Michelle was right and San Juan was more to maintain the status qou
than to produce anything new.

I also agree that alot of times that WG seem to be just moving with music
playing. What I like alot is too look at old routines. Even stuff prior to
orchestrated music. Mukihina's 1978 routine was great. And she only used
a piano. Som many times I think gymnasts are trying to project something the
can't. The presentation is hurt by their in ability to keep a routine going
at lightening speed (like that spanish gymnast in SJ) or by their bland
approach to the whole thing (Milo in SJ).

Still, stranger things have happened at worlds!!!


P.S. I really wonder how expressive Scherbo would be to music on FX!

P.S.S. Dina, Dina, Dina, Dina.


Date:    Wed, 1 May 1996 17:43:26 -0400
From:    ***@GROVE.IUP.EDU
Subject: WAG: Floor ex

Why do the women have to dance at all? The men have a list of elements, and I'm
assuming that the women do as well, so why not simply go out on the floor and


Date:    Wed, 1 May 1996 18:34:47 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: "Nadia" actors and re-intro

Forwarded message:
Subj:    Re: "Nadia" actors and re-intro
Date:    96-05-01 18:00:51 EDT

I know one of the doubles for Nadia in "Nadia" was Nicole Weiss.  I went to
school and gym (Pozar's in Sacrament, CA) for a year with her when we were in
8th grade (and then we both went to UCLA together), which is when she did the
movie.  She got the part through Geza Pozar who was also in the movie.  I
don't think she was ever on the National Team, but I believe she was on the
Jr. Nat'l Team.

Now to re-introduce myself:

My name is Cindy, wife of Chris Waller, 1992 Olympian, 1996 Hopeful,
and mommy to Alexandra Waller (16 months on the 4th).  I've been on the list
since around January.  Kris Bagiu told me about it.

I was a gymnast for 7 years, mainly Class II (a couple of meets as I).  Not
sure how that would rank me in today's terms (around Level 8 maybe???).  I
helped install our spring floor and dig out our pit at the gym I attended at
the time.  So, as you can tell, I'm from the "old school" also (bars were
still close also).  I'm originally from Monterey Bay and my maiden name is
Cindy Olkoski (in case I competed against any of you Nor Cal gymners).

I graduated from UCLA in 1992 with a BA in Economics.  I coached classes at
Broadway Gymnastics School (along with another non-gymnastics job) after
graduating, but had to leave after the LA Eathquake in Jan. '93.  Now I'm a
full time mom and very part time distributor for a nutritional company
(anyone interested in supplements/vitamins let me know-Chris takes them and
loves them).

I am guilty of being part of the flame wars (mainly with the men), but I love
them.  I think they're fun, and, once you get through the grime, very

Chris and I are planning on going to Atlanta either way.  We recently bought
tickets when the lastest lot got released, just in case things don't go as we

And, in case anyone wants to know, Trent Dimas is staying with us for a week
to train with Chris and Scott.  His wrist is better (still hurts of course).
 He just came in today, so I haven't seen him in the gym yet.  But, he's
planning on competing up at Stanford in a week or two at a qualifying meet
for the 2000 Team guys.  He's still training in Salt Lake City, but basically
by himself, so that's hard.  But, generally, everything is good with him.

I guess that's it for now.

Until next time............



Date:    Wed, 1 May 1996 18:28:00 MDT
From:    ***@RMII.COM
Subject: Statistics

>*  Country        Subscribers
>*  -------        -----------
>*  Australia             23
>*  Austria                1
>*  Belgium                2
>*  Canada                32
>*  Chile                  1
>*  Finland                2
>*  France                 2
>*  Germany                4
>*  Great Britain         17
>*  Hungary                1
>*  Iceland                1
>*  Israel                 1
>*  Italy                  1
>*  Japan                  1
>*  Malaysia               2
>*  Mexico                 1
>*  Netherlands            3
>*  New Zealand            4
>*  Norway                 2
>*  Portugal               3
>*  Slovenia               1
>*  South Africa           2
>*  Spain                  4
>*  Sweden                 6
>*  Ukraine                1
>*  USA                  675
>* Total number of users subscribed to the list:  794
>* Total number of countries represented:          26


Date:    Wed, 1 May 1996 21:12:17 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: GYMN-L Digest - 1 May 1996

Hi my name is Rachel and I live in Chicago Illinois. I am 16 and I did
gymnastics for two years starting when I was 13. My first teacher was
actually Diane Durham! She taught at Lakeshore Gymnastics Acedemy and taught
my beginners class. She left a year later to get married. To bad I didn't
know who she was until she left. But I saw her again at an exhibition a year
        Anyway I am new to the forum and I am a hudge gymnastics fan. At the
gym I was at I realized I was two old for gymnastics so I stopped. But I
record all the shows and do minor stuff in my house (walkovers etc.)


Date:    Wed, 1 May 1996 19:44:40 CST
From:    ***@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU
Subject: Diane Durham

  I remember watching a dual individual meet on ESPN in
>'82 or '83 that was between Diane Durham and Mary Lou Retton.  I forgot
>who won.  I was surprised that she didn't participate in the '84
>Olympics. Why wasn't she allowed to compete?
>Kerri :)
>Diane Durham did not place high enough in the Olympic Trials to make the team.
I was at the trials for the 84 games, and my recollection is that she hurt
herself on vaulting and either didn't complete the trials, or was rather
hobbled.  I would have to review very old tapes to remember exactly.  (my
memory is perfect, just very short!)....
And yes, Diane was a WONDERFUL gymnast!



Date:    Wed, 1 May 1996 19:52:27 CST
From:    ***@MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU
Subject: Level 10 Nationals

"In talking to some friends at Dynamo in Oklahoma I was told that region 3
is always much stronger than any other region. (We're in region one.) Is there a
>lot of regional variation?  Is Region 3 that strong?  I've also heard that
>judges in Region one tend to be more conservative than region 3?  Any truth
>to this."

I thought I could sit back, but I'll jump in and respond.  I will be
judging Level 10 Nationals--Senior Division.

As a parent, the most important thing to do is to encourage your daughter
and support her.  Don't get bent out of shape about judging!  The judges
are from all over the country, 4 judges per event, and the high and low
scores will be dropped & the 2 middle scores averaged.  What matters, of
course, is placement.  Does anyone really remember or care about a
particular score?  Or does being the National Champion matter more??!!

Each meet should be compared to each meet.  Did your daughter perform
better, try a new skill, etc.  Well Great!  The score may be higher or
lower from this meet to that, but as a whole, I really think the judges are
pretty consistent in picking out the best, 2nd best etc. PERFORMANCE of the
day.  Maybe just because I KNOW how hard we work to know our rules, be fair
and do a good job for the kids, I'm a little biased.  I've spent the last
week getting ready by going over the rules for my event, practice judging
videos etc.  And I know every judge on the floor will have done the same.

So enjoy the meet, and best of luck to you and your daughter!



Date:    Wed, 1 May 1996 19:14:00 -0700
From:    ***@IX.NETCOM.COM
Subject: Karolyi's is SOLD !!

Here is the letter we received from the Karolyi's today.

May 1, 1996

Dear Gymnasts and Parents:

The summer schedule will begin June 1, 1996, under the direct
management and ownership of our long time associate James Holmes, owner
and director of Acrofit Gymnastics Center in College Station.  In the
meantime, please pay your tuition by May 5 to Karolyi's Gymnastics.

In light of the past 15 years of exciting and rewarding experiences
with your children, we want to thank you for your loyalty to Karolyi's
Gymnastics.  At the same time assuring you that the new management will
provide the same valuable high quality instruction in the coming up
years.  We are very confident that James, who was our associate,
coaching for more than 10 years in our program, will run the same
quality program as we have been striving for.

We wish everybody the best of luck and an enjoyable athletic career in
the most beautiful sport in the world... "Gymnastics".

We will always be proud of you.

Bela & Martha Karolyi


50-75% of the coaches will not work for James, we do not know James, we
do not know anything about his coaching abilities or who he will be
getting to replace the other coaches.  After selling our house to move
closer to the gym and give our daughter the opportunity to train in one
of the best programs in the world, we can only wait and see what the
future holds.

The Karolyi's have every right to retire, unfortunately, the coaches
left behind, the stability of the program and the future of the kids
that have invested hundreds of hours and lots of money to be with the
Karolyi's is now uncertain.

The Karolyi's are probably not on this list so if you want to wish them
luck at their ranch, here is the address..

Karolyi's Gymnastics
17203 Bamwood
Houston, TX 77090
(713) 444-6595.


Date:    Wed, 1 May 1996 22:20:51 -0400
From:    ***@WAM.UMD.EDU
Subject: Re: GYMN-L Digest - 29 Apr 1996 to 30 Apr 1996

]This is in refrence to Liu's bars rotine at Worlds.

At the Visa classic where she first debuted her one arm giant
to one are Ginger she still had alot of difficulty to get the 10
start value.

At the VISA she did the same routine as in worlds but after the one
arm stuff she did inverted giants to a piked jeager and then later
still had the reverse hecth.  So she had three huge release moves...
anyone know why she decided to leave out the pike jeager.  With this
element in the routine she would still have more than enought
dificulty even if the one arm moves were only give a 'C'.

Also in comemening about coverages lately one of the best meets
if not the best in the past year has been teh Atlanta invitational
in which Marinescu won the AA.  They really showed a variety of all
the gymnast and since there was not big american star alto
of the focus was on the internation croud. Great conver
coverage from NBC on that event...hope the olympics matches up.


Date:    Wed, 1 May 1996 22:44:12 -0400
From:    ***@YORKU.CA
Subject: Liu's bar routine

> ]This is in refrence to Liu's bars rotine at Worlds.

> At the VISA she did the same routine as in worlds but after the one
> arm stuff she did inverted giants to a piked jeager and then later
> still had the reverse hecth.  So she had three huge release moves...
> anyone know why she decided to leave out the pike jeager.  With this
> element in the routine she would still have more than enought
> dificulty even if the one arm moves were only give a 'C'.
        I don't know why she took out the Jaeger at worlds, but I do know
that she did not do a piked Jaeger from inverts at the visa meet;  she
did it out of an undergrip.  I'm pretty sure that her routine there did
not start from a 10; she would have been short a special connection as
the one-arm giant is only a C and therefore it is ineligible for special
connection bonus (C's must have flight and/or direction change to be
eligible for special connection bonus on bars).


Date:    Wed, 1 May 1996 23:08:40 -0400
Subject: Re: Joint the crowd! (Intro)

HI Everyone
I was temporarily off the list, not at my request.  Something was very
wrong with my email.  I will do the reintro now.  My name is Alisa and I
am 19 and a sophomore at hofstra University on Long Island, New York.
  Gymnastics is my life.  I did it for twelve years before stress
fracturing my ankle twice in one season and I am now an expert spectator.
Amy and Jen, if you get this, please email me privatley, when my system
went down, I lost all your addreses.  I have a ton to tell each of you


Date:    Wed, 1 May 1996 23:16:52 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Sheremeta's music

About Sheremeta's first I thought it was Omeliantchik's (my
favorite) music, but after a few seconds realized that it was the music that
Sazonenkova used at the 1989 USA/USSR dual meet and the World Championships.
I remember seeing part of it at the dual meet (I think they came into it
late) and thinking it was cute, then hearing it in the background at the
Worlds and being upset that they didn't show it. I didn't know that so many
other gymnasts used it......

Also, about the Romanians' choreography....when Kathy first mentioned it at
the beginning of floor, I agreed with her, because I've always thought that
with some exceptions, (Silivas, some of Milo's routines) the Romanians have
weak music and choreography. I like Gina's current rountine, it is definitely
a lot better than any of her others (which I never liked), but I was so
disappointed with Lavinia's. She's had the best routines on her team the past
couple of years, and  this was just horrible. I felt bad for her. The "music
from the country the meet is in" approach is really getting old, (Szabo in
'84, Bontas in '91(American) and '92 (Spanish)) and the music that they chose
wasn't even good. Camptown Races? If they want to get the crowd going, (which
is the whole idea, right?) they should have stuck some Dixie in there or
something. Anyway, I really admire her, I can't wait to see her in Atlanta
(I'll be at the Team Finals) and I hope they do her justice and give her a
new rountine that will show her off, not make her look bad.

Well, since I'm actually posting a message, I may as well introduce myself.
I'm Ellen Monaghan, 24 years old, I did gymnastics for 10 years, mostly
recreational, although I did compete for my junior high and high school. I'm
from Mastic Beach, Long Island, New York, and I'm a music teacher.  I've been
a huge fan of gymnastics for as long as I can remember and have tapes of
almost all of the televised meets from '85 or '86, whenever we got a VCR. I
love the former Soviets and Romanians,  although I'm proud of the Americans
and how good we are now. My alltime favorite is Oksana Omeliantchik, and my
current favorites are Kerri Strug, Shannon Miller, Lavinia Milosovici, Oksana
Fabrichnova, Dina Kotchetkova, Alexandra Marinescu and many others. One of my
biggest thrills in gymnastics happened in February when I met my childhood
idol, Nadia, when she made an appearance for Danskin at Lord and Taylor in
New York City. I know that some people think that it's cheesy for her to be
doing things like that, but who ever thought I would be able to see my idol
perform on beam two feet in front of me and talk to me and give me an
autograph after? Anyway, let me stop babbling......



Date:    Thu, 2 May 1996 01:08:58 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Sports Acrobatics

Hi!  I am rather new to this list.
I was wondering, though,  has anyone heard of Sports Acrobatics?  How many
have participated in it?



Date:    Thu, 2 May 1996 17:40:45 +1300
From:    ***@NETACCESS.CO.NZ
Subject: Liu' Start Value

Oh for some very clear  symbols, what did we do before,-  your full
explanation of Lius routine can be read many ways.  For all the other Brevet
judges who have seen the routine what do you think?.  Our local cable TV is
covering the Worlds on Sunday so I will wait and see 'live' her routine
before I comment further.


Date:    Thu, 2 May 1996 01:56:51 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Gymnastics costs:  Mike M

<<Bill - I never got into a discussion about coaches, or giving private
lessons... I was discussing gym owners - only gym owners - and nothing but
gym owners.
Check that "mail you've read" before you go out on a tangent.
Mike >>

I'm sorry if I misunderstood that part of your post.  You DID mention
instructional costs, and since the issue of private lessons is big around
here, I guessed that it was a big issue in your area as well. I still think
it is an issue worth discussing.

As for your advice, take it yourself! I discussed the issue of club ownership
and costs at length in that post.  So many people walk into a gym and see all
of those kids and decide that someone has found the money tree.  Iam NOT a
club owner; but, I have been in the club program for nearly 30 years and I am
VERY familiar with the costs and problems that they face.  I even once worked
for a guy who saw that "money tree" and decided to open a gym and have one
for himself. Then he found out that it was not what he perceived.  Kids did
NOT flock to the gym just because it opened and we had a real good staff;
insurance, equipment, supplies, rent, maintenance, and all the other expenses
were overwhelming.  He expected to open his doors and make big money the
first year.  Instead, all of the money went back into the gym, he still
couldn't afford to pay his staff what they deserved, and the demands of the
club were taking over his life.  So, he got mad and disgusted and got out of
the business.  The point is, whatever a club owner makes is pretty hard
earned and is only there after years of sacrifice.  And, the expenses never
go away.  I am not a club owner by choice, not for lack of opportunity.  I
love coaching and teaching, and even helping out our owner whenever he asks.
 I just don't think I could be happy trying to balance all of the ownership
demands with my coaching, and coaching will always be first for me.  I am
sure there are some club owners out there who are gouging the public; there
are coaches out there who are gouging the public by purporting to be coaches.
 Every business has its bottom feeders and barracudas.  I think they make up
a smaller proportion of the gymnastics world, both in gym ownership and in
coaching, than in most other businesses.  I don't think they deserve a
broad-brushed attack.



End of GYMN-L Digest - 1 May 1996 to 2 May 1996 - Special issue