GYMN-L Digest - 1 Aug 1995 to 2 Aug 1995

There are 30 messages totalling 801 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

1. Marissa Medal
2. World Cup results
3. An actual USOF MEN'S GYMNASTICS QUESTION! (4)
4. Classic Report
5. Trivia Answers #31: Shooting Stars
6. August GYMN Calendar
7. Wrong book title
8. 1980 World Cup
9. Marissa Medal, Vaulting, and National Qualification (3)
10. Marissa Medal, Vaulting, and National Qualification (fwd)
11. '95 Univ. Games Stats.
12. Brink's music
13. And now for something completely different. (6)
14. Zmeskal & Nationals (2)
15. USOF - Mens
16. Kasumi Takahashi
17. Who ever was having the debate with me
18. Shooting Stars
19. Sorta Fan Mail

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Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 22:08:20 -0500
From: ***@VIPER.NET
Subject: Re: Marissa Medal

If I am not mistaken she also ws at the US Classic in Birmingham.

Michele

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 21:13:14 -0600
From: ***@RMII.COM
Subject: World Cup results

Results for the World Cups from 1975 on are available on Gymn's
ftp/WWW site. ftp.cac.psu.edu/Gymnastics-Results/worldcup.txt or
follow the logical links on the WWW pages (too lazy to look up the
exact order of links) at
http://rainbow.rmii.com/~rachele/gymnhome.html

Rachele

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 21:29:52 -0600
From: ***@RMII.COM
Subject: Re: An actual USOF MEN'S GYMNASTICS QUESTION!

| And, what is with the USGF and women's vaulting. In Worlds and Olympics, they
| get two vaults but they average them. Why does the USGF allow them to still
| take the higher score? Should it try to make gymnasts stick both vaults
| instead of being able to throw one away?

I think (someone correct me if I'm wrong) that the US Olympic Festival
is run under Competition Ib rules -- ie FIG team finals. Under those
rules, you take the better of the two vaults. The USOF is run by the
USOC. The meets that are run by USAG (US Classic, Nationals, etc) are
under Comp III rules -- ie FIG event finals. So for those meets, the
vaults are averaged.

Keep in mind though that USAG has some funky rules to give bonus for
performing difficult vaults (and sticking them). I don't remember
them off hand but they were discussed in Gymn previously...

Rachele

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 00:16:25 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: An actual USOF MEN'S GYMNASTICS QUESTION!

>I think (someone correct me if I'm wrong) that the US Olympic Festival
>is run under Competition Ib rules -- ie FIG team finals. Under those
>rules, you take the better of the two vaults. The USOF is run by the
>USOC. The meets that are run by USAG (US Classic, Nationals, etc) are
>under Comp III rules -- ie FIG event finals. So for those meets, the
>vaults are averaged.


US Nationals still use 1B rules for vault, or they did the last couple of
years.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 02:30:53 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Classic Report

I have to say I support Billy's report. That does *not* mean I think all-out
criticism of any sort is ok and is just a fact of life that gymnasts, younger
or older, just have to learn to deal with (well, they do have to deal, but
it's not ok). But I thought most of Billy's "criticism" was fair.

As I see it, there were basically three objections to his report -- that the
criticism was sometimes harsh, it didn't account for the gymnasts'
background, and there was too much of it relative to positive comments.

The first thing to point out is that this kind of report is intended to give
those of us who were not there a picture of what happened, of how the
routines were performed (while the author should keep in mind who will read
it, the reader also has to keep in mind who the intended audience is). I
think the best way to look at it is to think of it as one thinks of the
judging. Judging is criticism too; the judges took deductions for some
reason (I hope!), and this report is simply telling us the reasons. If you
asked the judge why she gave the score she did, what would she say? I
imagine it would be something similar to what Billy reported. "Fall."
"Stumble out of bounds." "Leg separation." "Low." "Bent legs." "Wobble."
That constituted the vast majority of the "criticisms" in the report. The
important thing is whether the descriptions were accurate -- if there was a
fall, or two steps, or a skill was low or a little off center, that's what I
want to know, and that is exactly what the report should say.

Of course, there are ways of saying things and there are ways of saying
things. While I recognize different people find different things offensive,
I can't help but think that the vast majority of the "criticisms" here were
totally innocuous. Actually, the report itself provides an example of better
and worse ways of expressing criticism. I don't see how one could possibly
be less offensive than simply to add "(fall)" or "(two steps)" after listing
a skill, or even to state simply that it was "low and loose" if it in fact
was. This in contrast to the commentary on Audra Steinbrook's floor, which,
though it was just intended to be funny, I do think was dismissive and
skeptical of the work she has certainly put into the skill. Something like
"similar to Kristie Phillips'" IMO would've conjured up the same vivid image
without quite the same side effect. Oh, and the comparison to Shevchenko
wasn't fair either. Besides that, there was little I can think of that would
even approach harshness.

The stories that are behind the gymnasts' performances are no more relevant
to this kind of report than they are to the judges' evaluation of the
routines. Unless one is drawing conclusions about a gymnast's talent and
future prospects, there is no need for background and context, and this
report did not attempt to make any judgment of that sort. Once I know about
a gymnast's injuries, surgeries, family problems, or school stress; about
where this meet is on her road to peaking, or about any number of things that
could affect her performance, does that change how she performed her routines
last Saturday? No. All the report was trying to do was say what happened on
Saturday, nothing more, nothing less. Just as the judges evaluated only what
happened on Saturday; their evaluations don't change (well, aren't supposed
to change) based on what the gymnast has gone through in the last year. I
fail to see why this report had to be any different. And *every* gymnast has
a story. One can't very well expect a single person to find out what they
all are and report them to us.

Then there is the balance of positive and negative. Skeptical that there
were 3 or 4 criticisms for every compliment, I counted and came up with 2
"negative" for every positive (approximately 40 to 20, and that was counting
*everything* I possibly could as negative, and none of this takes into
account all the places where there was no comment at all). One question I
have is how that reflected the ratio of mistakes to especially good
performances that merited mention. In my experience, there are usually more
of the former than the latter. Second, it is in a way more informative to
report errors, because that is what goes into scores. You don't get extra
points for doing a skill especially well (theoretically, anyway; judges do
manage to work it in sometimes) (on the other hand, this may be an argument
for stressing positives in a report, since they don't necessarily get
rewarded otherwise). Third, this was one person alone trying to watch all
events at once; one can't expect him to notice everything, and I'm just glad
he was able to write down as much as he did.

I also fail to see how it follows that if one points out the errors in a
routine, one lacks respect and admiration for the athletes, or one somehow
has forgotten that they spend 40+ hours a week in the gym.

It's unfortunate that Kaitie was so upset by the report, but I'm not sure how
else it might have been written, if the observations were accurate and stated
in a way that wasn't derogatory (and imho they were not at all derogatory,
with one or two exceptions, as I mentioned), except maybe to add some more
positives.

I would be interested to see a report from someone who saw the meet
differently.

I would go through the response pointing out specific things, but I've spent
too much time writing as it is, and I think I've pretty much covered what I
want to say anyway.

Adriana

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 02:31:20 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Trivia Answers #31: Shooting Stars

While I agree with most of Susan's comments, I stand by my inclusion of Gutsu
as a "shooting star". Susan writes:

>the general public didn't know of the person until they
win something big.

Precisely. The quiz asked about gymnasts who made a *major* impact, which in
most cases would require winning something big. It was really kind of hard
to think of anyone who made a major impact and also had a short and otherwise
unremarkable career. My doubts were actually about including Tuzhikova,
since it's questionable whether she ever made a major impact (in fact, I
guess I really wouldn't say she did, though that first full-twisting double
layout was really impressive). Gutsu competed in a single Worlds (she wasn't
at Paris, right?) and imho only had a major impact in '92. Relative to other
Olympic and World champs and medalists who had a "major" impact, her career
was pretty short-lived.

Adriana

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 03:24:09 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: An actual USOF MEN'S GYMNASTICS QUESTION!

>The meets that are run by USAG (US Classic, Nationals, etc) are
>under Comp III rules -- ie FIG event finals. So for those meets, the
>vaults are averaged.

>US Nationals still use 1B rules for vault, or they did the last couple of
years.

I don't know what they're using for the AA, but I doubt it's C-III rules;
they use those for event finals. I would guess they use C-II rules for AA.
In C-II vaults are averaged but you can use the same vault twice; in C-III
they're averaged and have to be vaults from different groups.

Don't know what they've done with the Thomas and similar skills in men's, but
in women's they've been completely removed from the Code (i.e. they're not
worth anything), except for dive rolls and full-twisting dive rolls.

Adriana

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 08:46:16 BST
From: ***@LINCOLN.GPSEMI.COM
Subject: Re: August GYMN Calendar

>
>>
>>The Gymn Calendar
>>
>>Anyone that has any events to add to this calendar, please mail them
>>to me.
>>All events on this calendar are subject to change. -- John
>>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>John,
>
>Another item for the calendar ( as advertised in July " Gymnast " mag. )
>
>Northern European Gymnastics Invitational.
>
>8th,9th, 10th September 1995.
>
> In the Kelvin Hall, Glasgow, Scotland.
>
>A new and important invitational team event for mens and womens
>artistic gymnastics.
>
>Teams from Scotland, N. Ireland, Eire, Wales, Iceland, Denmark, Norway,
>and Sweden will be taking part.
>
>
>( Sherwin - Have you got this one ? )
>
>
>
>John

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 10:07:31 WET
From: ***@VNET.ATEA.BE
Subject: Wrong book title

Hi GYMNers,

In the Gymnaestrada-report I sent you yesterday, I said something about
autors of "Pretty Girls ..."-like books. Of course I was referring to
Joan Ryan's book "Little Girls in Pretty Boxes". Somehow I got the title
words mixed up. :-*

Happy Gymnastics to you all,

Erik.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 19:08:05 EST-11
From: ***@DISINFORMATION.BF.RMIT.EDU.AU
Subject: 1980 World Cup

I'm pretty sure Stella Zakharova won the 1980 World Cup. I have this
IG at home. It was held in Toronto in late 1980.

Maxi Gnauck was second, but only just. I think Steffi Kraeker was
third.

Simone

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 07:46:07 -0500
From: ***@VAXA.CIS.UWOSH.EDU
Subject: Marissa Medal, Vaulting, and National Qualification

1)Marissa Medal finished 12th att eh 1994 Junior Nationals. I believe
that qualifies her to the team.
2)USGF uses Comp. II rules, in spite of what IG says in their magazine.
Ack, that's FIG, not USGF. I mean in international compeitions, anyhow.
3)Could someone forward who is competing at nationals to me? and all
of Billy's classic reports? I accidently deleted them. My mailer is screwed.


AND! I finally got (at least the first part) Brink's floor music identified.
It's called "Get Ready For This," and is possibly by U2, though the
person who identified it wasn't sure of who recorded it. NOW WE KNOW! :)

If you people want complete World Cup results, or questions answered, mail
me if you can't get it off GYMN. I printed out the results a while back
and have them available.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 07:08:13 -0600
From: ***@RMII.COM
Subject: Marissa Medal, Vaulting, and National Qualification (fwd)

| 2)USGF uses Comp. II rules, in spite of what IG says in their magazine.
| Ack, that's FIG, not USGF. I mean in international compeitions, anyhow.

Well, I don't know what IG says in their mag(?) but I'm sure that for
USGF-run elite competitions (not international competitions), Comp III
is used except for Vault which Amanda said was still Ib (which sounds
right because they always do weird things with vault and Amanda's good
at knowing those kinds of things). At the 1993 US Classic I remember
I interviewed Kelli Hill as to why she and Dominique chose to compete
at US Classic and not the US Olympic Festival. Kelli said the US
Classic was a better meet to prepare for Nationals because it used the
same rules, Comp III, whereas USOF used Comp Ib.

Also, in late 1993 when I interviewed the Cypress gym, I remember
Debbie Kaitschuck saying that they were going to start using Comp III
for juniors, too.

| 3)Could someone forward who is competing at nationals to me? and all
| of Billy's classic reports? I accidently deleted them. My mailer is screwed.

You can get back issues of Gymn digests by:
WWW:
http://rainbow.rmii.com/~rachele/gymnhome.html
--> Back issues
--> Recent
--> Check out recent dates (towards the bottom of the page)

FTP:
ftp.cac.psu.edu/pub/gymn/Digests/Recent
--> get some of the more recent digests

Digests are named "yy.mm.dd" eg 95.07.23 is the digest for July 23, 1995.

Rachele

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 13:24:11 GMT
From: ***@IC.AC.UK
Subject: Re: Marissa Medal, Vaulting, and National Qualification

> AND! I finally got (at least the first part) Brink's floor music identified.
> It's called "Get Ready For This," and is possibly by U2, though the
> person who identified it wasn't sure of who recorded it. NOW WE KNOW! :)

Well, I haven't heard Brink's floor music at all but an European pop
group from Amsterdam had a song called "Get Ready for This" and the group's
name was "2 Unlimited" (very similar to your U2 so maybe that's what the
person was trying of think of)

Sherwin

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 10:24:11 -0400
From: ***@UMICH.EDU
Subject: Re: Marissa Medal, Vaulting, and National Qualification

I think Sherwin is correct...I thought it was more of a techno-pop
group..not U2...

Anjel

> > AND! I finally got (at least the first part) Brink's floor music identified.
> > It's called "Get Ready For This," and is possibly by U2, though the
> > person who identified it wasn't sure of who recorded it. NOW WE KNOW! :)
>
> Well, I haven't heard Brink's floor music at all but an European pop
> group from Amsterdam had a song called "Get Ready for This" and the group's
> name was "2 Unlimited" (very similar to your U2 so maybe that's what the
> person was trying of think of)
>
> Sherwin
>
------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 11:58:31 -0400
From: ***@PANIX.COM
Subject: '95 Univ. Games Stats.

1995 WORLD UNIVERSITY GAMES
PARTICIPATING COUNTRIES IN GYMNASTICS

I think that only die-hard gym. fans will be interested in this. :)

Men Women RSG Offcls. Judges

Country M W R O J
--------------------------------------------

Albania 1 1
Australia 4 2 1
Austria 1 1 1
Azerbaijan 2 1
Belarus 5 4 3 3
Belgium 4 1 3 2
Brazil 5 5 3 6 6
Bulgaria 1 2 1
Canada 1 1
Cape Verde 1
China 5 5 2 7 5
Croatia 6 1 2
Czech Republic 4 1 2 2
Finland 5 1 2
France 3 1 1
Germany 1 1 2 2
Great Britain 4 4 3 4
Hungary 5 5 3 4 5
Indonesia 1 1 1 1 1
Ireland 1 1 1
Israel 1 1 2 1
Japan 5 5 2 9 5
Korea 5 4 2 3 5
Kyrgyzstan 1 1
Latvia 1 1
Libya 2
Lithuania 1
Malaysia 1 1 1
Mexico 3 3
Mongolia 1 1 1 4
Netherlands 2 1 2 1
New Zealand 2 1
Portugal 1 1
Romania 4 1 1
Russia 5 5 2 6 3
Slovenia 4 1 1 1
South Africa 3 1 1 2
Sweden 4 1 1
Switzerland 5 2 2
Taiwan 6 1 2
Ukraine 5 5 2 7 5
USA 6 6 3 6 5
Yugoslavia 2 2 3 2
--------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 117 64 40 91 77

Sports: Athletics, Basketball, Fencing, Football,
Gymnastics, Swimming, Diving, Water Polo,
Tennis, Volleyball, Judo, Baseball
Countries Competing
in All Sports: JPN, KOR, USA
Largest
Delegation: USA (456)
Smallest
Delegations: Samoa, Syria, Trinidad & Tobago (2)


Debbie

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 13:33:30 CDT
From: ***@PROCTR.CBA.UA.EDU
Subject: Brink's music

ATTENTION:
I sent info on Brink's music the other day about it being "Get Ready
for This" by 2Unlimited. Well, someone had said that it was the same
music playing while Sandy Woolsey was on bars at the NCAA's. I
missed seeing Brink at USOF, but I checked my NCAA's tape and it is
definitely "Get Ready For This". It is used by Meredith Willard by
Alabama. I should know I go to UA and ONE OF MY HOBBIES IS MAKING
FLOOR EX MUSIC; I have this CD. You can get the CD single at your
local music store (Blockbuster, Musicland ect..) The CD single has
like 5 different mixes of it. The entire album is good and it is
also called "Get Ready For This". Their new album is awesome, "Real
Thing", and cuts from this album have already been used for floor ex.
Now "ya'll" can breath. Get back to me on it if you want.

Shawn

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 15:33:13 -0600
From: ***@ZEPHYR.MEDCHEM.PURDUE.EDU
Subject: And now for something completely different.

I was wondering, now with all the changes in gymnastics at the top
competitions (i.e., "new life" and no compulsories after 1996), do you think
that the AA should be returned to the actual top 36, including as many
participants from any country as qualify in the top 36? I was thinking about
that since in the past there has been at least one situation ('81 worlds)
where the gymnast who finished fourth could not compete since the top
3 were also from her country.


What do ya think?


Jeff

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 16:48:25 -0400
From: ***@AMANDA.DORSAI.ORG
Subject: Re: An actual USOF MEN'S GYMNASTICS QUESTION!

Men's Rules:

Thomas tucked or piked = D
Thomas stretched = E

There is no ban on the Thomas in the men's program. It is up to the
decision of those participating (coach and athlete)

Ken Achiron

>I noticed that the FX winner did a THOMAS salto on floor (full twisting
>1 and 3/4 arabian). Wasn't that move devalued since it was considered one
>of the too risky moves that several gymnasts (Mark Caso, UCLA- I believe,
>and Mukihina, 1978 World AA and FX champion) broke their necks trying to
>perform? Or was it only devalued for the women?
>
>
>And, what is with the USGF and women's vaulting. In Worlds and Olympics, they
>get two vaults but they average them. Why does the USGF allow them to still
>take the higher score? Should it try to make gymnasts stick both vaults
>instead of being able to throw one away?
>
>Jeff
>
>
------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 17:16:43 EDT
From: ***@BBN.COM
Subject: Re: And now for something completely different.

On putting the top gymnasts into AA final regardless of country of origin:

Now that the FSU countries are all separate teams, what
teams besides the top 3 or 4 would this possibly affect
(i.e., how many teams are more than 3 top-30's people deep)?
How many gymnasts were denied a chance to compete AA last
year because of this rule?

Not an argument, just a question.

>>Kathy

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 17:44:10 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Zmeskal & Nationals

Although I'm thrilled that Kim will be at Nationals, the fact that she
seemingly bypassed formal qualification makes me wonder about others. For
example, do Tanya Maiers and Jennie Thompson have any chance of competing at
Nationals since neither of them finished either qualification meet?
-Emily

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 20:34:42 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: USOF - Mens

Weren't Gary Denk and Keith Wylie supposed to be in this meet? What happened
- there were only 22 participants - who dropped out??

What rules did they use for judging - the college (base score9.5 ) or
straight FIG - it seemed that the scores were pretty high if the used
straight FIG and the obviously didn't use the extra MPC requirements (must
dismount with D, two successive releases, etc.)
did they??

Thanks

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 10:50:04 +1000
From: ***@STUDENT.GU.EDU.AU
Subject: Kasumi Takahashi

Australian Rythmic gymnast, Kasumi Takahashi arrived in Melbourne this
week, for the World Champs selection trials. She did a press conference,
and here are the bits I have:

On beating the eastern Europeans :

"Their life is rythmic, but, whereas I go to school for three hours a
day, then go to rythmic. It's not as dedicated as they are, so, but I
mean, I'm going to try my best of course. It's not impossible."

On how hard the ribbon is:

"Yeah, a couple of times it's hit me in the head (laughs). You just
have to keep practicing until you get it right."

On performing at the Oscars:

"I really like Tom Hanks, although I did not speak to him that much,
because he had so much attention of course. But, um, it was really fun
to see all the stars, and just, like, I could touch them."

Michelle

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 20:51:59 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: And now for something completely different.

>do you think
that the AA should be returned to the actual top 36, including as many
participants from any country as qualify in the top 36?

Definitely. It never should have been changed to limit it to 3 per country.

Mara

PS It would be interesting to hear Olga Mostepanova's opinion ;-)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 20:48:54 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Zmeskal & Nationals

>Although I'm thrilled that Kim will be at Nationals, the fact that she
seemingly bypassed formal qualification makes me wonder about others. For
example, do Tanya Maiers and Jennie Thompson have any chance of competing at
Nationals since neither of them finished either qualification meet?

According to USA Today, both Zmeskal and J. Thompson were invited to
Nationals. I don't know about Maiers.

This is not the first situation of this kind involving the Karolyi girls,
btw. In 1991, the USGF 'prequalified' several gymnasts for Nationals without
having to compete in either Classic, including Zmeskal, Strug, Okino and
Grivich. Does anyone have more detail on how the 1991 situation came about?

Mara

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 11:02:26 +1000
From: ***@STUDENT.GU.EDU.AU
Subject: Re: And now for something completely different.

> How many gymnasts were denied a chance to compete AA last
> year because of this rule?

None, obviously, because there hasn't been a complete World Champs since
1991. Besides the new age rule, the 3 per country rule is my biggest
annoyance in gymnastics at present.......but I see no way of it changing,
when you consider who votes for it - the FIG members, who all (OK, take
out the top 6 countries) gain from limiting the best gymnasts from
competing. It makes even less sense in EF, since theoretically if you're
the third top qualifier, you should be given the chance to win a bronze
at least, after all you're still the 3rd best in the world regardless of
how good your teammates are. Individual competitions are just that, and
I'm sorry, but seeing your teammate win, isn't the same as winning
yourself........

As for the age rule, do you realise that someone born in 1982 doesn't get
to compete until 1999 Worlds, whereas someone born in 1981, can compete
in 1995, 1996 & 1997 Worlds, the 1996 Olympics and 1996
Europeans!!!!!!! Talk about unfair - it would be a gymnastics nightmare
to be born in January 82!

Michelle

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 20:01:13 -0600
From: ***@ZEPHYR.MEDCHEM.PURDUE.EDU
Subject: Who ever was having the debate with me

about the Criticism, I have a reply to your message, but I deleted your
name by accident, so I know not who to send it to and I wish not to send
it to the list. I should like for you to email me! Thanks.


Jeff


P.S. How did it get from a simple meet report to the problems in science today:)

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 20:03:11 -0600
From: ***@ZEPHYR.MEDCHEM.PURDUE.EDU
Subject: Re: And now for something completely different.

as Mara emailed me, I bet Olga Mostepanova and Irina Barakanisova and
Rosa Galieva would vote for it!



Jeff

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 Aug 1995 11:12:53 +1000
From: ***@STUDENT.GU.EDU.AU
Subject: Re: Shooting Stars

> Gutsu competed in a single Worlds (she wasn't
> at Paris, right?) and imho only had a major impact in '92. Relative to other
> Olympic and World champs and medalists who had a "major" impact, her career
> was pretty short-lived.

Just for the record, Gutsu did compete in 92 Worlds, but looked pretty
rough (the improvement between Pairs & Euro's was nothing short of a
miracle!)

Come to think of it, perhaps the greatest shooting star of all was soviet
Elena Lebotchkina (or was it Palyuck?) who won the 1989 International
Juniors, over Lisenko, Miller, Gogean & Mitova! Talk about being ahead
of your time! Has her name ever popped up again? I can't recall it in
any results.......she was apparently in a car accident in Moscow, which
ended her career.

Michelle

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 20:17:32 -0500
From: ***@VAXA.CIS.UWOSH.EDU
Subject: Sorta Fan Mail

I caught people talking about fan mail last week, and I thought I'd just
post this since I am so happy about it.

I am putting together a newsletter based on the NCAA women's championships
from this past year, and wrote to each of the Supper Six schools requesting
information. I heard back from Michigan yesterday. Plenty of info, many
pics, and (I think) the media guide they put together. Special thanks
to Bev Plocki and the Michigan SID. You guys are rgeat. I hope the
newsletter comes out as nice.

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 21:35:51 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: And now for something completely different.

The subject of my very first argument with Susan! Ah, the memories...

Those of you who were on Gymn back then may (but probably don't) remember
that I see no difference between limiting AA finals at a full Worlds to three
per country and holding an individual AA or EF Worlds where countries are not
allowed to enter more than 3 (or 2) gymnasts in the first place.

Which brings me to the real point of this message, which is that this debate
may now be moot, because what I've heard is that there will be no more full
Worlds after Sabae. So the debate becomes what I thought it should have been
in the first place: how many gymnasts should each country be allowed to enter
at AA and EF Worlds? I vote for at least three, because of the medals.

:-)
Adriana

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End of GYMN-L Digest - 1 Aug 1995 to 2 Aug 1995
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