GYMN-L Digest - 1 Apr 1996 to 2 Apr 1996

There are 11 messages totalling 603 lines in this issue.

Topics in this special issue:

  1. Garlfar Andrews (2)
  2. RSG Region II Results
  3. "Russians" (2)
  4. When will the media learn?
  5. Plea for help!
  6. Bluewater Invitational (long)
  7. Angry responses to - Dominque Moceanu (2)
  8. Bela and Mary Lou


Date:    Tue, 2 Apr 1996 16:05:20 -0500
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Garlfar Andrews

In a message dated 96-04-02 12:10:27 EST, you write:

>I just wanted to tell everyone that it is CLEARLY obvious that this Garlfar
>character is only writing these pointless, lengthy letters to arouse
>anger in all of us.  We should ignore any anti-gymnastics remarks he makes
>because if we don't we would be arguing against him all day, probably much
>his delight.

Ok, I don't agree with Garlfar anymore than you do, but he has a rigth to
have his own ideas.  Isn't part of the fun of gym hearing everyone's
different opinions?


Date:    Tue, 2 Apr 1996 13:13:30 -0800
Subject: RSG Region II Results

Level 10 Senior :
(National Team)
                        Rope    Ball    Clubs   Ribbon  ALL Around
#1 Kristin Lee          8.3     8.5     8.85    8.4     34.05
Silhouette Academy
of RSG
Mt Lake Terrace, WA

#2 Kelsi Kemper         8.25    8.2     8.3     8.5     33.25
Anelias Rhythmic A.
Bellevue, WA

Level 10 Junior:

#1 Lindsay Numedahl     Rope    Hoop    Clubs Ribbon    All-Around
Red River Rhythmics     8.0     7.45    8.15    8.15    31.75
Grand Forks, ND

Level 9 Junior:         Rope    Hoop    Clubs   Ribbon  All-Around

#1 Danielle Lord        7.95    8.2     8.3     8.35    32.80
Creative Gym. Inc
Portland, OR

#2 Emily Wilson         7.3     7.7     7.6     7.4     30.00
Anelia's Rhythmic A.
Bellevue, WA

#3 Suzanne Pearson      7.1     8.050   6.95    7.65    29.75
Gymnastika-Olympic A.
Lakewood, CO

#4 Leanna Poulin        6.95    7.3     8.25    6.85    29.35
Colorado Rhythmic A.
Monument CO

#5  Taya Campagna       7.15    7.4     7.85    6.75    29.10
Creative Rhythmic
Portland, OR

#6  Ashley Dokken       7.0     7.150   7.45    7.2     28.80
Nebraska Gold Gym
Omaha, NE

Senior Level 9
                        Rope    Ball    Clubs   Ribbon  All-Around
#1  Beth Kawana         7.75    7.85    8.6     8.15    32.35
Rhythmic Gymnastics
of Hawaii
Honolulu, HI

#2  Heather Eskridge    7.55    8.15    8.2     8.3     32.20
Creative Gymnastics
Portland, OR

#3  Stephanie Harken    8.25    7.75    8.2     7.6     31.80
Red River Rhythmics
Grand Forks ND

#4  Tara Edwards        7.45    7.7     7.95    7.65    30.75
Anelia's Rhythmic A.
Bellevue, WA

#5 Danielle Price       7.95    6.65    7.65    7.65    29.90
Rocky Mountain Rhythmics
Littleton, CO

#6 Robyn Houpt          7.2     6.10    6.7     8.25    28.25
Lakewood, CO

Level 9 Child           Rope    Hoop    Clubs   Ribbon  All-Around

#1 Lacey Stuart         5.3     5.5     6.45    4.4     21.65
Golden Belles

The Following Girls will be going to the Junior Olympic Rhythmic
Gymnastics Championships  (TOP 6 - LEVEL 8 AND TOP 6 LEVEL 7'S):

Level 8                 RFX     Ball    Clubs   Ribbon  All-Around

#1 Junior

Trisha Wiltbank         6.35    7.0     6.4     7.05    26.80
Creative Gymnastics
Portland, OR

#2 Junior

Jenna Powell            6.55    6.95    7.1     5.75    26.35
Lakewood, CO

#3 Junior

Colsey Bittner          6.0     6.65    6.7     6.55    25.90
Creative Gymnastics
Portland, OR

#4 Senior

Jaime Rainbolt          5.9     6.45    6.45    6.7     25.50
Creative Gymnastics
Portland, OR

#5 Senior

Abbey Thwing            5.8     6.35    6.35    6.7     25.20
Creative Gymnastics
Portland, OR

#6 Junior (TIED)

Tara Sullivan           6.0     6.5     6.5     6.15    25.15
Creative Rhythmics
Portland, OR

#6 Junior (TIED)        5.85    6.3     6.4     6.6     25.15
Jessica Stevens
Gold Star Rhythmics
Vancouver, WA

LEVEL 7:                RFX     Ball    Clubs   Ribbon  All-Around

#1 Junior               6.35    6.0     6.4     6.2     24.95

Courtney Foss
Lakewood, CO

#2 Junior               5.95    5.65    6.05    5.75    23.40

Jessica Homer
Rhythmic Gymnastic's A.
of Hawaii
Honolulu, HI

#3 Junior

Shelly Howard           5.95    5.35    5.85    5.35    22.50
Lakewood, CO

#4 Senior

Margaret Heerwagen      5.8     4.85    5.4     5.05    21.10
Seattle Gymnastics Academy
Seattle, WA

#5 Junior

Jessica Chou            5.6     5.25    5.2     5.0     21.05
Creative Gymnastics
Portland, OR

#6 Junior

Shauna Marx             5.5     4.7     5.45    5.35    21.00
Rose City Rhythmics
Portland, OR

Level 6:
                        RFX     Ball    Clubs   Ribbon  All-Around

#1 Gabriel Condrea      4.8     4.6     4.55    4.15    18.10
Seattle Gymnastics A.
Seattle, WA

#2  Emily Abbott        4.65    3.85    4.7     3.85    17.05
Seattle Gymnastics A.
Seattle, WA

#3 Cathy Bowman         3.7     3.85    4.3     3.0     14.85
Rose City Rhythmics
Portland, OR

Juniors                 RFX     Ball    Clubs   Ribbon  ALL-Around

#1 Naomi Speare         5.45    5.15    5.3     4.6     20.50
Red River Rhythmics
Grand Forks, ND

#2  Aimee Vogelgesang   5.3     5.15    5.05    4.85    20.35
Rhythmic Gymnastics Acad
of Hawaii
Honolulu, HI

#3 Jolene Clark         5.25    4.65    5.15    4.8     19.85
Seattle Gymnastics Acad.
Seattle, WA

#4 Brianna McDevitt     5.0     4.35    4.8     5.10    19.25
Red River Rhythmics
Grand Forks, ND

#5 Elizabeth Jones      4.8     4.1     4.95    3.95    17.80
Lakewood, CO

#6 Reyna Chan           4.65    4.65    4.0     4.35    17.65
Anelia's Rhythmic Acad.
Bellevue, WA

Level 6 Child:

#1 Anna-Lisa Dawson     5.55    5.35    5.30    5.20    21.40
Lakewood, CO

#2 Cierra Martinez      5.2     5.0     5.2     4.55    19.95
Lakewood, CO

#3 Kacey Law            5.4     4.95    4.65    4.4     19.40
Creative Gymnastics
Portland, OR

#4 Tiana Roma           5.0     5.1     4.6     4.5     19.20
Seattle Gymnastics
Seattle, WA

#5 Nicole Dahlstrom     5.0     4.15    5.25    4.25    18.65 TIE
Red River Rhythmics
Grand Forks, ND

#5 Ashley Tom           4.7     4.6     5.15    4.2     18.65 TIE
Anelia's Rhythmic Acad.
Bellevue, WA

#7 Michelle Marx        4.9     3.9     4.9     4.65    18.35
Rose City Rhythmics
Portland, OR

If you have any questions please email me.



Date:    Wed, 3 Apr 1996 08:57:47 +1000
From:    "***@STUDENT.GU.EDU.AU
Subject: Re: "Russians"

Can we please get our facts straight!

> >>can think of that was mind-blowing was by a Russian in '89 event
> >>finals

There wasn't a single Russian on the 89 *Soviet* Worlds team.  It was
comprised of 2 Latvians, 2 Belarussians, 2 Ukrainians and even had a
Ukranian reserve.  In fact, the last Russian to compete for the Soviet
Union in a World Championships was Shushunova in 1987!  (Is it any wonder
then, that the Russian women haven't taken over from the Soviets!)

> >I believe that this would be Natalia Laschenova.  I think that it was her
> who
> >beat Christie Henrich with a 9.975 to a 9.95.  I have a pretty good memory,
> >but this could be a mistake.

It is, Laschenova only made one final in Stuttgart - Vault.



Date:    Tue, 2 Apr 1996 17:46:50 -0600
Subject: Re: Garlfar Andrews

On Tue, 2 Apr 1996, Alex wrote:

> Ok, I don't agree with Garlfar anymore than you do, but he has a rigth to
> have his own ideas.  Isn't part of the fun of gym hearing everyone's
> different opinions?

OH, NO! Don't suggest that we all be open-minded and accepting of all
opinions on the list, Alex. That would be just TOO radical and we JUST


Date:    Tue, 2 Apr 1996 17:32:52 -0700
From:    ***@ASU.EDU
Subject: When will the media learn?

        I've heard this statement (in one form or another) a couple times on
this forum:  "You'd think the media would learn after the Zmeskal build-up not
to overhype gymnasts." (i.e. Moceanu).
        Since when is it the media's responsibility to ensure Zmeskal,
Moceanu, or anyone else performs well at the Olympics?  If you really
want to be crass, you could say that the media _benefitted_ from Kim's
flame-out, since that created a dramatic story for them to report.
Reporters are not U.S. gymnastics team boosters.  They have a job to do,
and they do it, and I don't think they really care whether it helps or
hurts an individual athlete's performance.
        This may be an old issue, but I do think it's relevant to note
that Bela Karolyi _actively encouraged_ the hype buildup of Zmeskal.
Consider his statement (paraphrased from IG) after the Paris
Worlds that Zmeskal was "unbeatable" and "the best in the world"  Yet a few
months later he _blames_ the media for her collapse.  I think a good deal of
media hype can be avoided.  If you don't want Sports Illustrated article
about your rivalry with Svetlana Boguinskaya,don't talk to the reporters.  If
NBC asks you for an interview even though you're injured and not competing at
the event, say "No.  Why don't you interview the winners of the event."
If Kodak wants to put you in a commercial with gold medalists and imply
that you'll be there (and win) in Atlanta, you can refuse.  How hard is that?
        You may flame at will.



Date:    Tue, 2 Apr 1996 19:58:43 -0500
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: "Russians"

OK, The American Heritage Dictionary for the English language, third Edition.
 C. 1992 (after the breakup of 1991) defines a Russian as "native or
inhabitant of the Soviet Union", probably from the fact that Russian was the
offocial language of the Soviet Union.  So, not to be picky, but since you
started it, it was common to call these people Russians, especially before
the breakup.  So, if you really wanted to get techinal...

So, it was Olga Strazheva who beat Christie Henrich, with a 9.975 to a 9.95.

The whole argument was not who was from what republic, and you had no right
to be condescending.  Not everyone is perfect ALL the time, not everyone can
"get the facts right!" all the time, so excuse me for being human.  So next
time  you jump on someone's back for not getting all the facts right think
about this human quality of imperfection that everyone has, besides you of


Date:    Tue, 2 Apr 1996 20:21:31 -0500
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Plea for help!

Please forgive me for cluttering up your mailbox with this but I am looking
for some info on any other mail lists that focus more on the junior gymnasts.
Specifically between the levels of 5 and 10.  I have two daughters both
involved in gym, my 12 year old is a level 8 and my 9 year old is a level 5.
 We would like to find a list that deals with these levels with other
gymnasts, parents, coaches and judges.

I am also looking for a gym catalog that carries not only leotards but also
the equipment needed for my daughters, such as hand grips beam shoes, etc.
 We live in Illinois so It would probably have to be mail order.  If you know
of any, could you send me an address or a phone number, thanks.

If anyone on this list can help me I would greatly appreciate it.  Please
send any info to:                                             Snaf
(if any one else is interested in this info, e-mail me also and I will
forward any response I get to you).  Thanks again to all of you in advance.

Mother of gymnasts
Snaf 2


Date:    Tue, 2 Apr 1996 21:08:40 -0500
From:    ***@YORKU.CA
Subject: Bluewater Invitational (long)

        Hi everyone.
        I just got back from Sarnia and the Bluewater International
Invitational.  Unfortunately, I was unable to get the results (they had
given out all of the copies and they weren't going to give out anymore).
But Dory is going to get them faxed to him (although he may not know this
yet (-:).  So I'll just give you some of the routine highlights, for the
elite/level 10 competition.
        Since I don't have the results, I'll go with highlights from the
different clubs represented.  The girls competed in two "feature
sessions" and there were juniors and seniors in each session.
        Kentwood gymnastics from Michigan had 4 strong gymnasts.  Katie
Taylor, who reminded me so much of Amanda Borden (same style and
showmanship) and she had a lot of good work, including a giant-full
Gienger, Piked Jaeger/straddle Pak, and double front on UB, and an
amazing ff 2 layout-step-outs immediate layout/pike to two feet!  Dead
on!  She and her clubmate Kristen Sterner both did double twisting fronts
on FX, and Melissa Bituj did a good 3 twist on FX, and attempted one off
UB (but fell).  Melissa also did a nice fish jump full on BB.  The other
Kentwood gymnast, Erin Williams made finals on FX, showing two front
fulls and a double twist.  Has anyone heard of these gymnasts before and
what level do they compete at?  They seemed to be having a blast, and the
coach was really supportive.  By the end of the meet they were cheering
outloud, by name, for some of the Canadian girls!
        Gymnix Club in Montreal sent all of their juniors, and they did
some good work, and it's obvious they have been training hard and working
on new skills.  For example, at the Gymnix meet it was the first time
Julie Beaulieu and Amelie Fournier did a Yurchenko vault, and they are
already twisting them.  Fournier caught my attention again with her
aggressive attack to all the apparatus.  It was a bit disturbing to see
most of the bonus on FX come from front tumbling, but they seem to have
the talent for more, so hopefully we'll see this next year, with the new
code.  Beaulieu attempted layout full-out off bars again, but missed it.
SHe also missed a Lucconi BB mount.  But the potential is there.
        Sport Seneca had several strong gymnasts present.  Natalie
Thompson only did UB and BB.  On UB warmups, she showed a Tkatchev that
evoked Natasha Hallet flashbacks, only to hit her foot on the bar in the
meet.  On BB, she showed the best triple turn I have ever seen.  Sherzel
Weeks has cleaned up her form a lot since Elite Canada, and she showed a
great ff layout ff layout on BB, as well as a good Jaeger on BB.  I think
all of the Seneca girls did at least a double turn on BB and a triple
turn on FX, which have long been trademarks of the club.  One of the
girls tried a Pak on UB (Is this Sarah Burtinski?  Can you help me out
here Allan?!)  Michelle Conway was good on BB in EF, showing a ff layout
ff and a double twist.
        France was represented by some talented juniors.  Both had great
choreography on FX, a trademark of the French team, with Fanny Generaux
and Marie Delaporte tumbling a strong piked full-in and a triple full
repsectively.  They also showed good amplitude on UB and BB.
        Brooke Adams represented AUstralia, and she was particularly
strong on UB with a high piked Jaeger, a toe on toe off(!) and a double
front dismount.  SHe had really cool fluorescent green wrist bands btw!
She exemplified the clean lines and execution that the Australians are
known for and she should be one to watch.
        The Winsonettes Club had some strong performers, although
Jennifer Exaltacion didn't compete (her name was in the program though; I
have no official word on her status).  Katie Rowland did well, with a
nice triple twist on FF and a front pike vault.  Clubmate Jaime Hill was
solid, although she still hasn't regained the form that earned her a
victory at the 1994 Commonwealth trials. She did show a nice Tkatchev and
Gienger on UB and her FX routine was well choreographed.  Karina Senior,
a recent transfer, showed one of the nicest 2.5 PFs on FX I have ever
seen and she made it to finals on that event.
        Sarah Deegan, junior national champion last year, showed some
amazing work.  She vaulted a solid Yurchenko full and Hristakieva,
tumbled a whip to 2.5 PF on floor (and was supposed to end with a 3
twist, but did a 2.5 instead; this didn't please her coach).  ALthough
she missed her pike Jaeger on UB, she also showed, albeit in warmup only,
a high Geinger and pike open layout dismount.  She had amazing amplitude
on BB, including a great mount combo on layout-on immediate ff layout.
Her mixed series of switch leap immediate side ariel.  I hope that for
her sake (and Canada's!) that she is training compulories, as I'd say
that she and Tousek are the only Canadians worth of wearing the Maple
Leaf in Atlanta.  Her teammate Stephanie Capuccitti hit the layout Jaeger
that bears her name, but was lacklustre elsewhere and appeared quite out
of shape.
        Marleen Lavoie had an up and down meet.  She missed on UB and BB
on day one, but got to compete in EF anyway under the rule that specifies
that at least one Ortona or Bluewater gymnast must compete in each EF.
She won the bronze on BB in EF with a good front on, ff layout ff, tick
tock Onodi, Yang Bo jump and 2 tuck dismount.  She really went aggressive
on her floor routine in AA finals, nailing her 2.5 PF and triple full.  I
would rather not comment on her other events....although her Hristakieva
on day one was good.....In case it's not obvious, she *is* my favourite
        Now to Viktoria Karpenko of UKR, the star of the meet by far!
What a talent!  Her UB were so amazing (pay attention, Jeff Ruell - she
is, I'd say 4'5" at the max): free-hip straight body hecht to HB; Geinger
to Pak; Cast pirouette on LB immediate toe-on shoot to straddle up to HB,
with great flight; inverts; and a layout full twisting double dismount!
She warmed up DOUBLE DOUBLE (IN LAYOUT!) on day two, and would have
thrown it, but her routine was off throughout, and she appeared to ping
off the bar a bit early.  On FF she tumbled an arabian double PF with
knees so tight together it put Prygunova to shame(!); she saved this for
EF as well, although she ended with full-in both days.  Her BB was stock for
the most part (front-on, PF, ff layout ff), but she thrilled us all with
her RO ff full-in dismount in EF (she didn't do this in the warm-up at all!)
        I'm sorry I don't have results at this time.  Hopefully Dory will
get them soon :-) I can tell you that Karpenko, Hill and Deegan were the
top three in AA.  I *think* one of the French girls won jr AA, but I'm
not positive.


Date:    Tue, 2 Apr 1996 21:45:00 -0500
From:    ***@INETNOW.NET
Subject: Angry responses to - Dominque Moceanu

I am not surprised at the angry, vile, responses posted to me and the GYMN
forum. I knew this would happen. Whenever anybody mentions anything that is
the truth about a particular subject and it happens to be negative, some
people just go ballastic. It seems gymnastics fans are the worse bunch.
Well, I will tell you, your angry responses will NEVER, NEVER, silence me. I
have more guts in my little finger than most of these cowardly bullies have
in their whole body. You may not like what I said, but for those of you who
got their feathers in an uproar, TOUGH? I expected this from the begining,
and I do not regret one thing I have said.

I have stated facts brought to me by reliable sources and observation. As
for the dozens of angry messages sent to me personally, I feel great. Now I
know that I told the truth. In all of my time on the Internet and online, I
have never had the response that I have received here. Yes, most was fillled
with dirty langauge and threats, but this just proves the old saying "The
truth hurts". I never meant to anger anyone. But if you want to take my
remarks are a personal insult, GREAT! Maybe you guys need something more to
fill your time. As for you guys and gals, that DEMANDED to see and talk to
all of my "sources", I would have to write a book. It doesn't make any sense
for some people to get manical over the statements, and FACTS, I brought up.
If you can't handle this, then you cannot handle information on any other
subject- baseball, football, politics, government, education, sex, the in general.

But for you cowards who can't take the truth, you just ran into perhaps the
one guy who is unafraid to face brutal scrutiny, epithets, and vile insults,
to speak the truth. I am unbought and unbossed. I know what going on. I will
never bow down!!!!!! How this for a "fiery" post? This is nothing compared
to the trash I received when I checked my e-mail. You can bet I responsed to
almost all of that filth. However, I replied with decency and facts, and
TRUTH! Not dirty names from cowards hiding behind the veil of a computer screen.


Date:    Tue, 2 Apr 1996 22:20:30 -0500
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Bela and Mary Lou

All this talk about Bela Karolyi reminded me of something I had read recently
in one of those insert magazines that comes on the Sunday paper.  I think the
article was discussing a videotape or CD-ROM or something about the Olympics
and it had comments from several past Olympic gold medalists, including Mary
Lou Retton.  One of the questions she was asked, of course, is what
contributed to her success in the Olympics.  Her answer included the typical
stuff about dedication, hard work, etc, but she went on to say that she gives
half of the credit to her coach Bela Karolyi for encouraging her and for
making her believe that she could be an Olympic champion.
Anyway, just thought I would mention that. (Sorry I don't have more specifics
about the article - just one of those things you run across when reading the
paper on a rainy Sunday...)



Date:    Tue, 2 Apr 1996 21:54:46 -0600
From:    ***@SNCAC.SNC.EDU
Subject: Re: Angry responses to - Dominque Moceanu

Dear Garlfar,

Probably the reason that you are getting so many negative responces is
that people are concerned about the truth you are telling.  As you wrote
before, you watched a TV show with an interview of Dominique Moceanu.
Still, even though it was a close one you can not rely on it 100%.  You
cannot always be 100% sure on any of the media coverages.  The point
is that you can not be so sure especially when using a single source.
Remember, there are many people on this list who know what gymnastics is all
about (like professional gymnasts Chris Waller or Mihai Bagiu or like
Ms. Quiner who wrote a book about Shannon Miller).  They know all sides
of this sport and they can see beyond the TV coverage.  The TV show you
watched made you biased and maybe it was its purpose.  Especially now,
after the Joan Ryan's book "Little girls in pretty boxes" which showed
only the negative side of gymnastics, people on this list are concerned
about such media releases.  So, don't be mad, try to research more
and try to listen to the experienced professionals instead of one TV
coverage (Dominique could have just had a bad day or did not sleep well
a night before or maybe it was the first time you saw her without any
make-up ;), as for Bela, with all this media pressure and especially
after some misinterpretations, he doesn't want to give them any chances
for misinterpreting (and one can do it even using an interview)).
How about just listening to somebody who know the "behind the camera" side
of gymnastics well.  You might be right, but we are not gods and what if
you are wrong?



End of GYMN-L Digest - 2 Apr 1996 - Special issue