GYMN-L Digest - 1 Jul 1996 - Special issue
There are 21 messages totalling 627 lines in this issue.
Topics in this special issue:
1. Men's Trials
2. Trials Observations
3. Olympic trials and coverage thereof (3)
4. GYMN-L Digest - 30 Jun 1996 to 1 Jul 1996 - Special is (2)
5. GYMN-L Digest - 1 Jul 1996 - Special issue
6. Kristy Powell's Music
7. Coaches (2)
9. The olympic trials and stuff
10. US TRIALS
11. Interview with Dom M. at USA Olympic trials
12. Trials Observations (fwd)
13. head coach of US women's team
14. GYMN-L Digest - 1 Jul 1996
15. ALIEN COMMENTATORS, ETC.
16. High Nat'l Scores
17. 7-6-5 Rule and Amanda Borden
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 11:56:56 -0400
Subject: Men's Trials
I have to admit, i was pleased with the tv coverage overall, despite john
tesh feeling as though he needed to constantly talk during the routines.
In particular, i wanted to congratulate Kris and Mihai. Good luck in
Atlanta...and I agree, Gabriella is adorable.
Also, to Cindy and Michelle...I am sorry to see Chris and Scott not going
to atlanta. They really put up a fight for one of the 7 spots.
Especially Scott - who shocked me at how well he perfomed with everything
that happened to him. Both should be proud that they came back and tried
to make the team again.
Maybe with Jair, John, Shannon, Kerri, and Dominique returning for their
second olympics, maybe more gymnasts will realize that you can still
compete if you don't make it the first time to the olympics....
19 days to Atlanta.....
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 10:56:36 CDT
Subject: Trials Observations
WOW! A very exciting trial, in my opinion. Congrats to all the gymnasts,
who worked so hard to make their respective teams. A couple of thoughts :
1. Poor Mark Booth! He was the ONLY gymnast NBC chose not to feature during
the broadcast. That's a shame because he's excellent on floor.
2. Finally during last night's broadcast they decided to show one of Mohini's
routines. She had a great night in optionals, according to Rachele's quick hit
entries on the USAGO web page. I hope she sticks around for awhile; I think Mo
has not yet reached her real potential.
3. Marta and Mary Lee have been named US coaches!! FANTASTIC! The girls are in
4. Whatever the coaches do...I hope they decide NOT to use Chow on floor. She
should definitely vault and work bars, and perhaps beam, but that floor routine
is most surely the worst of the seven. Great tumbling, I'll give her that, but
her dance is among the weakest on the national team (along with Teft.)
What a trooper, though, to remount and finish that beam routine after taking
such a horrible spill!
5. Kulikowski looked great. I wish there was a place for her on the team :<
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 11:58:44 EDT
Subject: Olympic trials and coverage thereof
Men: Arrgh! This was the most painful live broadcast of a sporting event
that I've ever watched. Not only were guys who are generally consistent
having inexplicable problems (e.g., Roethlisberger's final FX tumbling pass),
but I saw bizarre mistakes I've never seen before from top guys
(e.g., Keswick's tangle on rings). This made the pressure-filled
women's Nationals seem like a lark by comparison; maybe the Olympics
will be relatively easier for the guys, too.
In the "no-go zone": Who came up with this nonsense? The usual expression,
as Mihai Bagiu demonstrated, is being "on the bubble."
I understand why they focussed on the athletes who were battling for the
last spot, but they could have spared a little of that "no-go" chatter
time to show us, say, Jair Lynch's vault as well as his happiness over
his score, or Roethlisberger's high bar.
I really wish they would stop invading athlete's privacy when they're down.
Steve McCain and Jennie Thompson were the victims of choice this time.
Women: Again, a little too much concentration on the "no-go zone,"
but better coverage of all athletes. It was great to see some women's
compulsories coverage. I'm glad they didn't engage in false
suspense to hide the fact that Miller and Moceanu were arithmetically
guaranteed spots on the team, but then they harped incessantly on that.
Great compulsory or optional routines from Dawes, Borden, Strug and Chow.
Nerves seemed to catch up with Phelps right at the end--the adrenalin
rush from the crowd for the final routine must have been tremendous.
I do think this is the strongest US women's team ever--even if it is
the one I would have picked a month ago if given absolute authority :-).
Wish we had better choreo for those FX routines, though.
Highlight: The Karolyi clip with the announcers doing the Bela imitation
voiceover. Was this what Bela was referring to when he jokingly
threatened into the camera later in the coverage?
How can John Tesh have any serious interest in gymnastics at all,
and yet have learned so little about the sport in the 12+ years he's
been covering it at the Olympic level? Please, John, bone up
between now and the 20th!
A question about perception: A lot was made during the coverage
of the fact that Moceanu and Miller had successfully petitioned
to let their scores from Nationals be prorated for their total,
and opt out of Trials. Not much was said about Chow and
Pickens petitioning _into_ Trials after dropping out of
Nationals after compulsories. Was the difference because they
actually competed at both Nationals and Trials, even if they
didn't finish Nationals? Or that they were at the later
competition, thus presumably avoiding the question of whether
they would actually physically able to compete in Atlanta?
Or just that Moceanu and Miller were of more interest as
athletes in the opinion of the folks at NBC? (I'm not trying
to start an argument over whether petitioning is good or bad;
I'm just curious over the very different amounts of attention
paid to the two different sets of petitions.)
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 12:00:12 -0400
Subject: Re: GYMN-L Digest - 30 Jun 1996 to 1 Jul 1996 - Special is
Josh will be traveling with the team as an alternate to all events, straight
through the Games.
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 12:01:53 -0400
Subject: Re: GYMN-L Digest - 30 Jun 1996 to 1 Jul 1996 - Special is
Josh will travel as an alternate through the entire training camp and Games.
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 12:37:35 -0400
Subject: Re: GYMN-L Digest - 1 Jul 1996 - Special issue
No one has commented on Dom M's answer when asked "what are her chances for the
Olympics?" She basicly said she would not complete, but then she added more to
the answer top cover the first part and then when added with Bela saying he
would give his own leg for her to complete, I think we are looking at Dom not
being able to compete in Atlanta.
My other question, since Dom is only 14 she could hang around for 4 years, but
to do that she misses 2 years of international exposure due to age
requirements, Why is everyone so focused on this year? Let her heal, learn new
skills and some new chorography and come back in better shape then now. I do
realize that it is hard to readjust goals and it is heartbreaking not to reach
them when you want them, but as Diane Durham said "there is a reason why
I will re watch the tape tonight and get Dom's exact quote.
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 09:40:30 -0700
Subject: Kristy Powell's Music
Why did Kristy Powell change back to her Aladdin music??
Could it have possibly been because Mary Beth Arnold was using the same
violin music? Did anyone else not like MB Arnold's dance on floor?
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 12:44:24 -0700
Subject: Re: Coaches
>> Did you ever stop to think that maybe he WAS disappointed FOR HIS GYMNASTS?
>> The only reason everyone thinks that he was more concerned with himself is
>> because NBC did that pfluff piece about how he blew his chances for sports
>> greatness while still in high school and is trying to regrasp it through
>> his gymnasts.
and Kelly responded:
> I will tell you and the forum why I believe it was crazy and wrong. First
> of all I was in gymnastics for 14 years myself training. I had probably
> 8-10 coaches. NOT one of them ever pouted when their athlete didn't make it
> onto a team, or none of their athletes made it.
> In fact we had about 20 national stream people in our club. The Olympic
> year, neither 6 of the top girls for Artistic gymnastics made the team. But
> their coach went over and hugged them, said you did your best, their is next
> year. TOM didn't even go over to T. K. when she fell off a beam. You call
> that a coach? That puts himself before his athlete. I don't think so.
> And how about all that stress that was on Kristi and Theresa? I want to go
> to the olympics, but my coach wants to so bad. MORE pressure. I just don't
> think it was right that is all.
Well, I just thought your critisism of Tom Forester was a little unfair,
considering that when one of Mary
Lee's athletes (I can't remember if it was Amanda or Jaycie) fell you could read
the word "SHIT" coming off her
lips. I think that's worse than Tom's crying. I've also seen Steve Nunno and
Bela show equally as
inappropriate reactions to errors.
The point I was trying to make is that Tom is just human, and there is nothing
wrong with expressing human
emotion. He still is better than a coach who yells and screams all the time.
I'll bet when he finally did
approach the gymnasts, he didn't have anything nasty to say (like Bela did when
Dom messed up on her bar
routine at nationals).
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 13:58:37 -0400
Yes, just watching Amy Chow smack into the beam gave me a headache!!
And I heartily concur with all the comments on John Tesh!! I felt like
screaming *SHUT UP!!* after a while!!
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 14:06:03 -0400
Subject: Re: The olympic trials and stuff
>>>I think I like our U.S. men's team for the 1996 olympics. This maybe the
>>>best team we have seen in a long time. We MAY actually win some medals this
I have nothing against the U.S. men's team, but I do think all these
for medals (especially a team medal) are a little off base. i.e The IG
on NBC's Olympic home page predicted the U.S. might win bronze.
Watching the men's trials, I was appalled at the number of falls, bobbles, and
miscelaneous mistakes being made. There is no way the U.S. men could
win a team medal with the number of mistakes they made at this competition.
Consistency is what wins team medals. Consistency was not demonstrated
by the U.S. men as a team. A few of the men like Chainey Umphrey and
Roethlisberger were quite consistent, but winning a medal requires that
the whole team be consistent.
Sure, if every U.S. man hit every routine, they might have an outside chance
for a medal, but what are the odds of that happening?
Also, contrast the U.S. women's trials with the men's. The women have a
legitimate shot at a medal, and they proved this in the competition. Especially
in the optionals, there were very few mistakes made, even by those who
did not make the team. There is no way the U.S. men have the same
chance for a team medal as the women.
As for individual medals, perhaps some of the men have an outside chance.
However, if the men couldn't handle the pressure of the trials, why should
we expect them to handle the even greater pressure of the Olympics?
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 14:06:07 -0400
Subject: Re: Coaches
>>Did you ever stop to think that maybe he WAS disappointed FOR HIS GYMNASTS?
> only reason everyone thinks
>that he was more concerned with himself is because NBC did that pfluff piece
> about how he blew his chances for
>sports greatness while still in high school and is trying to regrasp it through
> his gymnasts.
He was dissappointed for his gymnasts, but also for himself.
He said more than once that he wanted two gymnasts on the
Olympic team. i.e. Powell and Kulikowski. Did he ever
consider how unrealistic this would be? Powell and kulikowski
are good gymnasts, but Forster should have realized that
the American contingent was *very* deep and that both of
his gymnasts were really outside shots for the team. Putting
so many expectations on his gymnasts just so he could
have one on the team is wrong! (It's like whoever the person
was who told Steve McCain he could get on the Olympic team
and win a medal. Why are gymnasts encouraged to have
such high (and often unrealistic) goals. Especially gymansts
like McCain and Kulikowski who are relatively inexperienced or
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 14:06:15 -0400
Subject: Re: US TRIALS
>>Jacie was excellent. More and more I love her floor routine. She does it
>I hate her routine! I think she's a good gymnast but her present
>routine, IMO, is terrible! I don't like the music or the choreography.
>With her abilities, I think she could do something a little more
>flowy, maybe classical or something. Her present music
>doesn't flow at all, and as a result the choreography is limited.
>Maybe if I watch it a few more times I'll see its good points but
>right now I don't!
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 15:34:05 -0400
Subject: Interview with Dom M. at USA Olympic trials
on to the fact that it really would be heartbreaking to sit and watch the
olympics from the stands when you know that you've qualified for them. Too bad.
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 15:44:19 -0400
Subject: Re: Olympic trials and coverage thereof
Actually, I perferred the "no-go zone" phrase to "on the bubble."
I got so sick of that phrase over the past several years. It was
a nice change of pace.
+++> of the fact that Moceanu and Miller had successfully petitioned
> to let their scores from Nationals be prorated for their total,
> and opt out of Trials. Not much was said about Chow and
> Pickens petitioning _into_ Trials after dropping out of
> Nationals after compulsories. Was the difference because they
> actually competed at both Nationals and Trials, even if they
> didn't finish Nationals? Or that they were at the later
> competition, thus presumably avoiding the question of whether
> they would actually physically able to compete in Atlanta?
> Or just that Moceanu and Miller were of more interest as
> athletes in the opinion of the folks at NBC? (I'm not trying
> to start an argument over whether petitioning is good or bad;
> I'm just curious over the very different amounts of attention
> paid to the two different sets of petitions.)
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 15:03:21 EDT
Subject: Trials Observations (fwd)
>4. Whatever the coaches do...I hope they decide NOT to use Chow on floor. She
>should definitely vault and work bars, and perhaps beam, but that floor routin
>is most surely the worst of the seven. Great tumbling, I'll give her that, but
>her dance is among the weakest on the national team (along with Teft.)
My biggest surprise about Chow's floor routine was the choice of the music.
Living in the South, I thought it was a little strange to have a gymnast
perform to music that is not even allowed to be played at any of the state
colleges/universities in Georgia (or at least at the University of Georgia).
Like everyone else I want to add my congratulations to the members of both
Olympic teams (as well as to the other competitors at the Olympic Trials).
I think I was more nervous watching the Trials than I probably will be during
the Olympics. I felt so sorry for the competitors that did not make the
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 16:20:18 -0400
Subject: head coach of US women's team
Has the official head coach of the US women's olympic gymnastics team been
announced? If so, who is it, and who is the assistant coach?
Yours in Gymnastics,
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 13:48:20 -0700
Subject: Re: GYMN-L Digest - 1 Jul 1996
Automatic digest processor writes:
> Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 06:22:47 UT
> Subject: Re: GYMN-L Digest - 29 Jun 1996 to 30 Jun 1996
> well, josh stine made number eight.
> why wasn't he made the alternate like in all the other worlds and
> olympics? I think he deserves it. yes their suposed to be competing
> seven, but still if anything happens, they need that alternate.
> besides that, the competion was very exciting.
> don't they compete 6 with the top 5 scores and the seventh is the alternate?
Couple years back, Team USA talked a bunch of gymnasts into coming back
east for a training camp. I dont have all the details but they were not
allowed to take their home coaches with them. They did some experimental
training stuff. Anyway a couple of Stanford guys went to the camp,
and it took Sadao over 2 yrs to undo the damage that those morons back east did.
Im not sure but I think Josh was one of the guys damaged in that camp.
What I do think is waycool though, is the fact that Josh can still compete
even though hes outta school now.
USA-GYMN: you STILL think us guys after school are too washed up to compete???
Im hopeful that we will do OK in Atlanta (Mens Gymn) but I dont think we
are likely to medal.
We're not going to do well until we overhaul the process for training
mens gymnnasts. But at least we got a good enough team that we wont
look like wimps this summer.
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 16:28:25 -0400
Subject: ALIEN COMMENTATORS, ETC.
I've just got a few thoughts/pieces of information to share with the forum
as we head up to the Olympics...
1. I heard on the news recently that there is a group of people in the
U.S. who firmly believe that John Tesh is an alien. Apparently, he is a
member of the martian army Zorgon or something. I'm not sure what his
purpose is here on earth, but perhaps all of us gymnastics fans are part
of his Master Plan. Anyway, they held a protest/rally outside of his
house a while ago, and when John came out to get his picture taken with
them, all his 'groupies' ran away. I swear, I'm not making this up...
2. There were twenty women's medallists at the 1992 Olympics (6 on each of
the three medal-winning teams, plus Henrietta Onodi and Lu Li). Of those
twenty, NINE are expected to compete in Atlanta (Boginskaya, Galieva, and
Chusovitina from CIS; Milosovici and Gogean from Romania; Dawes, Miller,
and Strug from the USA; and Onodi from Hungary). By comparison, only one
medallist returned from Seoul '88 to Barcelona '92, and that was (all
together, now) Svetlana Boginskaya.
3. Bela Karolyi has a pretty impressive resume. Here's a list of all of
his world and Olympic medallists that he was coaching at the time of their
medals (ie. he doesn't get credit for Brandy Johnson's '89 vault medal
since he was no longer her coach).
Mary Lou Rotton
Total: 13 gold, 8 silver, 15 bronze.
Well, it's pretty tough to argue with such success!
18 days to the Olympics,
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 18:17:26 -0400
Subject: High Nat'l Scores
I was just wondering why there is such a difference in the national scores
of Miller and Moceanu and the rest of the trials athletes? For Moceanu to
come in 3rd at Natls and still place a pretty good bit above Dawes, I just
don't get it. Is there a good reason, like were the routines better or more
difficult, or were the national scores just significantly higher due to judging?
Thanks in advance! LeeAnne
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 18:52:57 -0400
Subject: Re: Olympic trials and coverage thereof
Ok I have another Elfie phrase for us. If you watch barcelona she says
It was finger tip control.
That drives me crazy.
I loved trials, I was moves to tears by the performances and smiles of
amanda borden and kerri strug. IMO strug is one to look out for in
atlanta. No more bridesmaid.
And as for the whole tom forester thing. At first I was very angry at
him for not being there for kulikowski after beam, but did you see him
holding kristy after optional floor. He truly cares about his gymnasts.
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 13:00:05 -1000
Subject: Re: 7-6-5 Rule and Amanda Borden
>What does this mean as far as Amanda Borden is concerned? She is my
absolute favorite and made the seventh place slot. Does this rule apply
only to the team competition? Does this mean Amanda may not compete? Help,
now I am worried.
Actually I got kind scared about this to but then I realized that
this rule is the same as the process used at Worlds. It's like this...
All seven gymnasts will go to Atlanta and all seven will be allowed to
compete on each apparatus (this concerns team compulsories only). The
head coaches from each country will decide who competes on what apparatus
because only six gymnasts are actually allowed on each apparatus. Out of
these gymnasts perform, only the top five scores will count towards the
total. For example, the US team would "probably" go with something like
this for women's cumpolsory floor:
Competing: Dawes, Miller, Moceanu, Strug, Phelps, and Amanda.
Bye (not competing this rotation): Chow
Well that's how I'd pick it. The head coaches would take into
consideration things like expression, dance, reputation, and other stuff
for this event in particular. Amanda would more than likely compete
inthis event because she does very well here. If one of these gymnast
should have a big mistake, or not score to well than that score would be
dropped and the highest five counting towards the total. One thing I'm
not clear on is wether the six gymnasts who compete comp floore are also
the ones who MUST compete optional floor... Any one sure? I hope not
because Borden might be left on the side lines because she usually does
well in comp with not so strong optionals. Chow's comp floor is weaker
but her optional floor (tumbling wise) is superior. Of course the
percentage of comp and optionals needs to be taken into consideration a
bit (is it comp 60% and opt. 40%?) It'll be very interesting to see who
competes in this case. If Moceanu OR Miller OR anyone for that matter
not physically be able to compete then Kulikowski would not be allowed to
join the team (because the comp already started) and all six healthy
gymnasts would have to compete. In a worse case scenario if two gymnasts
should become to injured to go on, i.e. Miller AND Moceanu then the five
remaining gymnasts would have to compete and scores, low-high, would
count. Try to remember back to the Dortmund worlds where Miller departed
and the six remaming needed to all compete so that on score (lowest)
could be dropped. I like this rule because had Amanda be in the seventh
spot with last year's rules than she would have been the alternate and we
probably wouldn't see her, but with this system, each country can put up
the best competitors on each event allowing a very exciting competion!
By the way, how would you all pick the top six to compete? Just a
thought Hope that clears things up..
End of GYMN-L Digest - 1 Jul 1996 - Special issue