gymn Digest                 Sun, 29 Jan 95       Volume 3 : Issue  63

Today's Topics:
                      ASU vs Minnesota (women's)
          CAL women's gymnastics vs. Denver, Stanford, UCLA
                            Happy New Year
             Men's 1995 Winter Cup Challenge compulsories
                NCAA Score Inflation [Again] (3 msgs)
                      Need info on Tatiana Gutzu
                          Network Addresses
                      New Member's Introduction
                      Romanian gymnast (2 msgs)
                       Romanian gymnast's death
                     Romanian Gymnastics (3 msgs)
                            Tatiana Gutzu
                     Winter Cup Challenge, Finals

This is a digest of the mailing list. 


Date: Wed, 25 Jan 1995 16:36:36 -0700 (MST)
From: ***
Subject: ASU vs Minnesota (women's)

      I went to this meet on Friday night.  It was the home season
opener I believe.  It was the first NCAA meet I've ever attended.  Anyway
it wasn't too exciting.  ASU is ranked 9th in the country and Minnesota is
unranked so it wasn't much of a contest.
      ASU started on vault.  Everyone did handspring fronts I believe,
maybe one piked.  Someone did a barani-out.  Another thing, I don't know
exactly what code these judges were using but flawed handspring front
tucks with landing problems were getting 9.7's so it must not be very up
to date or they don't know how to judge at all.  The barani-out was the
best vault of the night.  It was high with decent form and just about
stuck but only received a 9.825 which surprised me considering the
inflated scoring for the other vaults.
      Minnesota started on bars right in front of me.  Very poor form
throughout all their routines.  There were huge leg seperations, almost
splits, during the pirouettes which were not deducted for.  Everyone did
double flyaways tucked I believe except for a Rudi and a toe on front.
Someone did a Shushunova (blind change to Markolev).  I don't know why
this move is so popular in NCAA gymnastics but it's quite common though
considering I haven't seen it performed internationally since '88.
      Then the teams switched events and I think a grand total of one
Minnesota gymnast stood up a front handpring vault, and she only did it
once.  There was a piked Tsuk also performed. 
      On bars the ASU girls had better routines overall then the
Minnesota gymnasts.  All did double flyaways and received about five
tenths bonus from the crowd screaming when they stuck the landing.  There
was a pretty nifty fall when one girl did a piked Jaeger WAY too close to
the bar and hit the back of her legs upon regrasp.  The coach attempted
to catch her but ending up falling on top of her under the bars and he
laid on her for a second.  Anyway she was fine and finished her routine
complete with a spot on her double tuck. 
      Then Minnesota went to floor and ASU to beam.  ASU mainly all had
the same routines, ff lo ff and either front full, Rudi, or ro full
dismounts.  The big move on floor for Minnesota was the double back,
although one girl attempted a triple full for the second pass.  The music
was cheesy, very techno, and the lack of proper dance training made the
routines quite unwatchable.  Also a lot of very weak attempts at front
      The same was the case for ASU on floor, I was surprised at the
amount of front fulls and even more confused as to what Code the judges
were using.  One gymnast did a piked full-in, a few did front to double
tuck, and every one else mounted with double tuck. 
      On beam someone from Minnesota mounted with a split leap immediate
tour jete which was pretty cool.  Almost everyone fell and they all did
the same passes and dismounts as ASU except for one cartwheel gainer full
off the side.
      I went to this meet with my friend who competed in gymnastics for
ten years.  She does not follow international gymnastics or even national
gymnastics and so her criticism of the gymnastics on display was
interesting.  Like me, she thought the attempts as dance and choreagraphy
on floor were a joke and that the form was very weak overall. Standing on
the low bar as a transition move was downright hideous looking considering
these girls are all over five feet tall.  Also there was a definite lack
of originality as everyone did the same routine practically.  And the
judging was ridiculous of course.  Maybe they pay the judges to mark the
routines higher than they deserve so more people will come to the meet if
they expect a very high level?  No ten's were given but I wouldn't have
been surprised if any were.
      I will probably continue to go to my school's home meets because I
love gymnastics, and it's only about two hundred yards from my dorm.  I
realize that the level isn't as high as some would like to believe so I
was not as disappointed as some, like my friend, who went in expecting a
very high level of gymnastics. 


Date: Sun, 29 Jan 1995 13:30:44 -0500
From: ***
Subject: CAL women's gymnastics vs. Denver, Stanford, UCLA

I attended a meet in Berkeley with four teams competing: University of
Denver, Stanford, UCLA, and CAL.  I didn't keep good track of the scores but
UCLA won followed by Stanford, CAL, and fourth place for Denver.  CAL was
ahead after the first pass, with excellent vault scores, but had trouble on
the bars.  Mindy Ornellas fell on her bar routine (8.6), but otherwise had an
excellent meet.  She tied for second overall with Leah Homma of UCLA.  Stella
Umeh (who, with Leah Homma was on the Canadian national team) did not compete
for UCLA.  The overall winner was from Stanford (sorry, I don't remember



Date: Sun, 29 Jan 1995 03:30:53 -0500
From: ***
Subject: Happy New Year

On behalf of Li-Ning's International Gymnastics Academy, Chatsworth,
California; Li-Ning School of Gymnastics in Guangdong, China; and all of our
friends both athlete and coach on the China's Men's and Women's gymnastic
teams, on this occasion of Chinese New Year I would like to extend our best
wishes for a very happy, healthy, and prosperous Year of the Boar, 1995.

Gong Xi Fa Cai            (Mandarin)
Kung Hay Fat Choy     (Cantonese)

David Wolf
General Manager, Li-Ning USA


Date: Sat, 28 Jan 1995 08:26:23 -0700 (MST)
From: ***
Subject: Men's 1995 Winter Cup Challenge compulsories

1995 US Winter Cup Gymnastics Challenge
Senior Team/Team '96
27 Jan 1995
Colorado Springs, CO

Four of the world championship team members competed in this meet,
despite the fact that they retain their top seven ranking from the
1994 Nationals.  They are marked with an asterisk below.

Men seem to be really having problems with compulsories on two events
-- pommel horse and pbars. The only horse score above a 9.0 was
Roesthlisberger (9.05), and none of the athletes managed six 9.0plus
scores. Some excellent high bar and floor routines were thrown, along
with some vaults that really achieved a great amount of distance.
Mihai threw the best flank vault of the competition (completely
extended). Roethlisberger's looked good too but he missed the regrasp.
Former Olympians Jair Lynch and Trent Dimas competed tonight but
didn't fare so well. Gymnasts from the Olympic Training Center
displayed great line, with John Macready leading the way. He could
have easily placed higher if it weren't for high bar -- at the end a
whole string of gymnasts started missing high bar, like a disease or

Brian Yee was clean and impressive, racking up the highest scores on
floor and vault, 9.3 and 9.55 respectively (Roethlisberger also got a
9.3 on floor). The highest rings score belonged to Keswick (9.4) who
was the very first rings competitor of the night and set up a pretty
good standard. Pbars beloned to Jair Lynch with a 9.45, and the best
high bar (score wise) was thrown by both Keswick and Bagiu with a

Jeremy Killen, National champion on floor, had to scratch the meet
with an injury.

Dr. Bill Sands was gathering data for an experiment, with infrared
lights set up at defined intervals along the length of the vaulting
runway to measure the gymnast's approach speed. The announcer said
that this data was going to be compared to the gymnast's score to
determine the correlation, if any. Seems like the compulsory vault (a
Hecht) has been subject to a lot of studies! I know of at least two
_Technique_ articles breaking down the dynamics of the vault.

All-Around Standings (already weighted 60% comp/ 40% optionals)

* Scott Keswick, UCLA, 66.240 (9.2, 8.15, 9.4, 9.5, 9.4, 9.55)
* Mihai Bagiu, Gold Cup, 65.970 (9.05, 8.9, 8.9, 9.525, 9.05, 9.55)
* Roethlisberger, Minn, 65.940 (9.3, 9.05, 9.25, 9.35, 9.3, 8.7)
1. Chris Waller, Gold Cup, 65.100 (8.55, 8.95, 8.95, 9.5, 9.1, 9.2)
2. Josh Stein, Stanford, 64.38 (8.65, 8.65, 9.25, 9.35, 8.9, 8.85)
* Steve McCain, UCLA, 64.32 (9.05, 8.15, 8.45, 9.3, 8.95, 9.7)
3. Chainey Umphrey, UCLA, 64.32 (9.15, 8.15, 8.95, 9.3, 9.3, 8.75)
4. Brian Yee, Minn, 64.02 (9.3, 8.85, 8.7, 9.55, 8.8, 8.15)
5= Rob Kieffer, Gold Cup, 63.66 (8.8, 8.1, 9.3, 9.3, 9.1, 8.45)
5= Richard Grace, Nebraska, 63.66 (9.2, 7.95, 8.75, 9.45, 8.7, 9.0)
7= John Macready, OTC, 63.30 (8.75, 8.75, 9.3, 9.1, 9.1, 7.75)
7= Garry Denk, OTC, 63.30 (8.85, 8.2, 9.3, 9.3, 8.45, 8.65)
9. Jay Thornton, Iowa, 62.76 (8.85, 8.35, 8.8, 9.4, 8.45, 8.45)
10. Keith Wiley, Standord, 62.52 (9.1, 8.0, 8.7, 9.35, 8.2, 8.75)
11. Jair Lynch, Stanford, 61.62 (8.7, 8.05, 7.2, 9.5, 9.45, 8.45)
12. Mike Williams, Gold Cup, 61.38 (8.8, 7.65, 9.05, 9.5, 8.1, 8.05)
13. Mike Morgan, Queen City, 61.08 (8.7, 7.8, 8.25, 9.25, 8.15, 8.75)
14. Jason Katsampes, Parkettes, 60.840 (8.6, 8.8, 8.05, 9.2, 8.4,
15. Mike Denucci, UCLA, 60.780 (8.7, 7.45, 8.4, 9.3, 8.45, 8.35)
16. Mike Moran, Daggett's, 60.66 (8.4, 7.9, 9.2, 9.05, 8.0, 8.0)
17= Trent Dimas, Gold Cup, 59.52 (8.2, 7.3, 8.45, 8.6, 8.55, 8.5)
17= Cal Booker, Daggett's, 59.52 (8.9, 6.6, 8.35, 9.05, 7.9, 8.8)
19. Mark Olivier, Washington, 59.04 (8.25, 6.4, 8.75, 9.3, 7.7, 8.8)
20. Chris Young, Twisters, 58.80 (8.75, 7.7, 8.55, 7.0, 8.35, 8.65)
21. Jeff Lavalle, Daggett's, 57.30 (8.8, 7.05, 9.0, 8.75, 8.3, 5.85)

Yours in gymnastics,


Date: Sat, 28 Jan 1995 14:26:57 -0500
From: ***
Subject: NCAA Score Inflation [Again]

Perhaps NCAA score inflation is the reason for the disgusting crybaby
attitudes of certain members of the US Men's squad toward international
judges. Perhaps their rancour is misplaced.



Date: Sat, 28 Jan 1995 22:59:36 -0500
From: ***
Subject: NCAA Score Inflation [Again]

>Perhaps NCAA score inflation is the reason for the disgusting crybaby
attitudes of certain members of the US Men's squad toward international
judges. Perhaps their rancour is misplaced.

David makes a good point.  It may not help for a gymnast to receive a 9.65
for a routine worth 9.2 when he competes it internationally.



Date: Sun, 29 Jan 1995 00:49:15 -0500
From: ***
Subject: NCAA Score Inflation [Again]

>I guess my point is that you can't really say inflation unless you saw the
routine -- I thought that the problem of speculation vs fact was gone

It's not just one routine, it's across the board. 

>Also, remember that base score is higher during the season than at
International meets and finals at NCAA championships

Why should it be? 



Date: Sat, 28 Jan 1995 19:33:08 -0500
From: ***
Subject: Need info on Tatiana Gutzu

I am looking for vidoes from the 1992 Olympic games.  Especially about
Tatiana Gutzu. I am also trying to find out if Tatiana is planning to go to
the 1996 games. E-mail me back and I will arrange for postage.



Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 09:51:57 EST
From: ***
Subject: Network Addresses

Email addresses addendum.  Forwarded from stumpers-l


Date sent:      Wed, 18 Jan 1995 16:39:51 -0500 (EST)
From:           Suzanne Fisher <>
Subject:        Re: ? TV corp email addresses
To:             skeptical dragon <>
Copies to:      Stumpers listserv <stumpers-list@CRF.CUIS.EDU>


NBC News=
ABC News=
CBS isn't included.

> [snip...] At any rate, here are the
> addresses of the broadcast and non-premium cable networks
> most likely to show gymnastics.  If you want to praise,
> complain, or plead, here's where to do it:
> 77 W. 66th St.
> New York, NY  10023
> 51 W. 52nd St.
> New York, NY  10019
> ESPN [or ESPN2, I assume]
> ESPN Plaza
> 935 Middle St.
> Bristol, CT  06010
> 30 Rockefeller Plaza
> New York, NY  10112
> TNT or TBS
> One CNN Center
> P.O. Box 105366
> Atlanta, GA  30348
> Cheers,
> >>Kathy


Date: Sat, 28 Jan 1995 22:23:00 -0500
From: ***
Subject: New Member's Introduction

Hello everyone!
      My name is Tammy and I live in Tyngsboro, Massachusetts, near
Lowell, MA.  I am sixteen years old and a Junior at Tyngsboro High School.  I am
a gymnast at Walker's Gymnastics in Lowell.  My favorite event is the uneven
bars-even though I always get bloody rips!  I don't know what level I am at, but
would like to find out.  I think I am a level 5 or 6 on bars and beam, but a
level 10 on floor.  That doesn't sound right though.  I would appreciate it if
someone would like to explain this to me.  Thanks.  My least favorite is the
beam.  I am currently working backhandsprings on the beam, perfecting my front
handspring on vault, have my handspring tuck, almost have my aeiral, and getting
ready to do punch front-roundoff backhandspring-back tuck on floor.  On bars I
have my kip, handstand, long hang kip and flyaway, I almost have my free hip
circle to handstand and straddle back and starting on handstand half pirouette. 

If anyone knows how to prevent bloody rips on bars, please let me know. Thanks.


Date: Sat, 28 Jan 1995 23:07:32 -0500 (EST)
From: ***
Subject: Romanian gymnast

Does anyone have anymore info on the death of the young gymnast in
Romania? I'm interested to know if any charges are being brought against
the coach! This story broke my heart and I would hate to see this coach
get away with this abhorrent act!


Date: Sun, 29 Jan 1995 09:56:01 -0500 (EST)
From: ***
Subject: Romanian gymnast

> Romania? I'm interested to know if any charges are being brought against
> the coach!

According to the story, he's being tried for "unintentional killing"
(involuntary manslaughter in our speak, I guess), which carries a maximum
of 10 years (too little for this, IMHO).



Date: Sat, 28 Jan 1995 18:29 EDT
From: ***@ROO.FIT.EDU
Subject: Romanian gymnast's death

This is an absolutely ***HORRIBLE*** crime.  It's sad and pitiable to think
that winning is THE most important part of a competition!!  If this doesn't
help change the brutal methods,  I don't think anything will.



Date: Sat, 28 Jan 95 19:19:00 UTC
From: ***
Subject: Romanian Gymnastics

Hi all,
    I picked this up off of Reuters news service.  I have friends that have
been Romanian gymnasts who say this is not uncommon.  It makes Carol Stack's
objections to Bela Karolyi look like a joke. (Olympic Fever)
Kathy E.
 Romania confronts ugly side of gymnastics
    By Radu Timofte
    BUCHAREST, Jan 27 (Reuter) - Romania's gymnastics hothouse produces gold
medal winners but how much this owes to brutal training methods is highlighted
next week when a court judges a man accused of killing a little girl gymnast in
his charge.
    Florin Gheorghe, former trainer at Bucharest's elite Dinamo sports school,
is accused of beating Adriana Giurca to death during a training session. She
was just 11.
    Giurca's teammates have testified that beatings were a regular part of the
training regime, justifying the fears of those who have long suspected a brutal
hand behind the flawless performances of tiny child athletes.
    The Bucharest court is to rule on Tuesday on a charge of unintentional
killing and, if it finds Gheorghe guilty, could jail him for up to 10 years. He
has been in detention since February 1994.
    The court has already heard testimony that Gheorghe flew into a rage during
training on the balance beam in November 1993, throwing the tiny Giurca to the
ground and beating her.
    Giurca's teammates, who witnessed the incident, have told the court that
corporal punishment was ``normal'' when they failed to perform to their
trainers' demanding expectations.
    ``We accepted the beatings and the pain because we were convinced that it
would open the door to the great performance,'' Florentina Spinzurici, one of
the young gymnasts, said in court.
    The prosecution alleged that Gheorghe pulled the girl from the beam, her
body hitting the ground hard, and then beat her with his hands. She died in
hospital a few hours later.
    Gheorghe's defence lawyer, Sanda Dragu, acknowledges the trainer, a
25-year-old former junior national champion on the rings, ``slapped'' the girl
but had not meant to kill her.
    ``It was an unhappy accident because he had not the slightest intention to
kill the girl.
    In court, Dragu blamed Bella Karoly, trainer of Montreal Olympics star
Nadia Comaneci, for setting a standard of harsh training techniques.
    ``It's true my client slapped the girl but this was not out of practice in
Romanian gymnastics. This kind of punishment is a heritage from Bella Karoly,''
the defence lawyer added.
    Noted Romanian sports columnist Constantin Macovei disagreed. He
acknowledged that Karoly was ``famous for toughness,'' but he wrote in the
``Gazeta Sporturilor'' daily that there was little comparison.
    Octavian Bellu, chief trainer at Romania's Olympic gymnastics centre, said
that while much may have changed in Romania since the fall of communism in
1989, the old way to great gymastic performance -- iron discipline -- was still
the way to go.
    ``We haven't changed anything in our style of work or our rules,'' Bellu
told Reuters in November when Comaneci returned for her first visit home since
fleeing into exile in 1989.
    The grieving mother of little Adriana wants Romanian gymnastics to learn a
lesson from the incident.
    ``My daughter died because her trainer bestially hit her, he struck her
head on the balance beam,'' Maria Giurca told Reuters in a telephone interview.
    It is a crime. It was not an accident. The punishment must be the


Date: Sat, 28 Jan 1995 22:55:09 -0500
From: ***
Subject: Romanian Gymnastics

>   ``It's true my client slapped the girl but this was not out of practice
Romanian gymnastics. This kind of punishment is a heritage from Bella
the defence lawyer added.

Bela may be a tough coach, but it's ridiculous to accept this type of
accusation at face value, particularly when made in defense of accused



Date: Sun, 29 Jan 95 10:43:24 CST
From: ***
Subject: Romanian Gymnastics

      The story of the young Romanian gymnast
who was killed really troubled me.  Supposedly
this type of "iron discipline" has been going
on for a long time, that this was not the first
time a gymnast had been slapped.  As a gymnastics
community, how can we stop this practice?  Maybe by
boycotting the Romanians (although we do not want
to hurt the gymnasts' feelings more)?  What about
starting a letter of protest?  We all helped with
the men's NCAA campaign, maybe we can send the Romanian
gymnastics federation our letters and pressure them
into making sure that this practice is terminated.
Any ideas?


Date: Sun, 29 Jan 1995 14:25:20 -0500
From: ***
Subject: Tatiana Gutzu

I have been trying to find out how I can get hold of a video copy from the
1992 Olympic games. Especially about Tatiana Gutzu. I am also interested on
any information about her coaches and if she is planning on attending the
1996 Olympic games.  Thanks



Date: Sat, 28 Jan 1995 21:19:32 -0700 (MST)
From: ***
Subject: Winter Cup Challenge, Finals

I'll send in some notes tomorrow, but for now here's the results...

1995 Winter Cup Challenge
Colorado Springs, CO

Team '96
All around standings, final, 60% C / 40% OPT

* John Roethlisberger, Minn, 109.50
* Mihai Bagiu, Gold Cup, 108.530
1. Chainey Umphrey, UCLA, 108.440
2. Josh Stein, Stanford, 108.380
3. Chris Waller, Gold Cup, 108.060
4. Rob Kieffer, Gold Cup, 106.900
5. Brian Yee, Minn, 106.860
6. Richard Grace, Mebraska, 105.940
7. Jay Thornton, Iowa, 105.360
8. John Macready, OTC, 105.260
9. Garry Denk, OTC, 104.460
10. Keith Wiley, Stanford, 103.960
11. Mike Williams, Gold Cup, 103.940
12. Jair Lynch, Stanford, 103.420
13. Mike Moran, Daggett's, 103.140
14. Jason Katsampes, Parkettes, 101.800
15. Michael Moran, Queen City, 101.200
16. Trent Dimas, Gold Cup, 100.720
17. Mike Denucci, UCLA, 99.700
18. Jeff Lavallee, Daggett's, 99.660
19. Chris Young, Twisters, 99.360
20. Cal Booker, Daggett's, 99.320
21. Mark Oliver, Washington, 98.520
* Steve McCain, UCLA, did not compete optionals
* Scott Keswick, UCLA, did not compete optionals

Team 2000, 20 and over (optionals only)

1. Darren Elg, BYU, 53.950
2. Mark Booth, Stanford, 53.400
3. Andrew Mason, Cal, 51.650
4. Dave Frank, Temple, 51.550
5. Tyler Vogt, Iowa, 51.400
6. Tony Pansy, Penn State, 51.050
7= Brandy Wood, Penn State, 50.950
7= Shane Evangelist, New Mexico, 50.950
9. Thomas Ellefson, Penn State, 50.700
10. Steve Marshall, Army, 50.600
11. Brian Franson, W. Michigan, 50.300
12. Aaron Cotter, Iowa, 50.100
13. Marty Larson, ASU, 49.450
14. Chip Downton, Gold Cup, 48.850
15. Kirk Johnson, ASU, 48.400
16. Richie Ellis, Houston Gym, 46.400

Team 2000, 19 and under (optionals only)
1. Mike Moran, Daggett's, 53.100
2. Jeff Lavallee, Daggett's, 52.950
3. Gewin Sincharoen, Cal, 51.500
4. Aaron Vexler, Temple, 51.450
5. Jason Katsampes, Parkettes, 51.200
6. Jamie Ellis, Stanford, 50.700
7. Dan Fink, Oklahoma, 50.400
8. Lindsey Fang, Gymnastrum, 50.200
9. Michael Morgan, Queen City, 50.150
10. Kenny Sykes, Temple, 50.000
11. Gary Thagard, New Mexico, 49.800
12= Kendall Scheiss, New Mexico, 49.500
12= Joe Martelli, Daggett's, 49.500
14. Chris Toy, Cal, 49.400
15. Scott Finkelstein, Gymnastrum, 48.600
16. Joe Duda, Unattached, 48.400
17. David Patten, BYU, 48.300
18. Todd Bishop, World Class, 47.300
19. Rob Rimpini, North American Sports, 46.600
20. Mike Pena, Army, 46.500
21. San Juan Jones, Tallahassee Gymnastics, 7.850


End of gymn Digest