Sun, 19 Feb 95 Volume 3 :
amer cup ques
American Classic (2 msgs)
American Classic - Junior Optionals (3 msgs)
American Classic Info
American Classic Location
American Classic Ramblings
American Classic Results
bay area meets tonight & sat late flash
coaches using videos
Coca Cola qualifications
Details of Giurca's death
Gymn Reporters for the American Classic
Intro & High School Gymn.
Leah Homma (2 msgs)
Leah Homma & videos (3 msgs)
Mixed Pairs vs. Pan Am Games
Need Trivia Questions--Pan Am Games
Please make sure your posting has a Subject: line
Scores from American Classic
The American Classic (2 msgs)
the slip-grip historical note to what Adriana wrote... (2 msgs)
UF-GA Collegiate Controversy
update on Romanian cruelty story
USOC/NCAA Task force
Who's at American Classic?
Yale vs. Vermont
This is a digest of the firstname.lastname@example.org mailing list.
If you would rather receive the mailing list directly contact Robyn
Kozierok <email@example.com>. You may also contact Robyn to stop
receiving this digest, or with any administrative concerns you may have.
PLEASE address all replies to firstname.lastname@example.org, NOT raek or the recipients
of this piece of mail. That way they will be sure to get to the whole group
and make it into the next digest.
Advanced mail readers like mush, MH etc. have an undigest feature in them
which you can use to break down the digest into individual messages.
The program undigestify.c is available from wuarchive.wustl.edu by anonymous
ftp in the directory /mirrors/unix-c/mail/ and should perform this function
for those whose mail readers do not have this feature.
NOTE: All opinions expressed on the Gymn forum are those of the author
only. GYMN IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CONTENT OF THE SUBMISSIONS TO
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 1995 12:43:33 -0500
Subject: amer cup ques
does the amer cup change venues every couple of years?? the past two years
or so it was in orlando, fl and previously in fairfax, va...now in
does this comp stay at a location for a couple of years and then it
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 01:10:40 -0500
Subject: American Classic
Here is some American Classic info. Junior Optionals are scheduled to
compete at one on Saturday. I was there most of the day today working
security, the gymnast's hospitality table and whatever. It was great to be
down on the floor:). Svetlana Bouginskaya was there with Bela. She still has
incredible presence but didn't look super strong- bent legged cast to
handstand on bars, wobbly on beam. She was very sweet to the little girls
looking for autographs. Her teammates, Dominique Moceanu and April Burkholder
(tiny!) looked very well prepared. The Cypress girls looked STRONG. Andrea
Pickens must lift weights. Melinda Bainbridge from Cypress is 12 and looks
about 9. Cincinnati Gymnastics were wearing shirts that said something like
"Be positive and you will succeed" on the front and on the back "All of us
together are stronger than any of us alone" -something like that. They also
looked good. CO aerials shirts said "Know Fear". They did quite a bit of
ballet in their warm-up- using folded up seats for a barre. Doni Thompson was
very nice about signing autographs for the little girls.
Larissa Fontaine was wearing quite a few different braces. Saw no Dynamo
kids or Kerri Strug- although 2 other gymnasts from Gymnastics World- Randi
Lillenquist and Lindsey Wing were working out. Let me know if there is
anything in particular you want to know because I have a bird's eye view.
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 95 18:47:02 -0800
Subject: American Classic
I know I should have planned ahead but I didn't know about the American
Classic until now. It's sold out and I want to know if there's any chance of
getting ONE ticket if I show up there. I know it's a long shot but I had to
ask. I wish it were as simple as a concert where I could find a scalper or
hope for a cancellation. Oh well.
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 13:16:26 -0800
Subject: American Classic - Junior Optionals
Greetings, Gymn fans!
It's a beautiful day here in Oakland. So what am I doing on the
computer, instead of skating in Golden Gate Park? It must be
Junior Optionals yesterday were pretty exciting. Lots of new names
and faces (new to me, at least.) Since I'm not too incredibly in the
know as to who the movers and shakers are in the Junior scene these
days, I really didn't have a clue as to whom to watch. (All of the
girls I recognize as juniors are now competing as seniors.) This gave
me full freedom to watch whomever I wanted to, which is always fun.
The down side of this eclectic viewing strategy is that I only caught
a glimpse of one routine of the winner (uneven bars.) And this is the
routine that she go her lowest score (stumbled on her double layout.)
Maybe one of the other Gymners on the scene can give a rundown on the
other routines of this girl.
Speaking of winners (and, as the announcer said, "They're all
winners") here's a listing of the top ten Juniors:
NO. Name VT UB BM FX TOTAL
1 Gail Kachura 9.65 8.80 9.525 9.475 37.45
2 Alexis Brion 9.50 8.675 9.50 9.725 37.40
3 Kinsey Rowe 9.375 8.90 9.575 9.40 37.25
4 Vanessa Alter 9.40 9.00 9.175 9.525 37.10
5 Jamie Dantzscher 8.80 9.025 9.40 9.70 36.925
6 Melinda Baimbridge 9.50 8.75 9.175 9.475 36.90
7 Breanne Rutherford 9.175 9.025 9.125 9.40 36.725
8 Kristen Stucky 9.50 9.075 8.825 9.225 36.625
9 Leoandra Willis 9.45 9.375 8.725 8.60 36.15
10 Jeanette Antolin 9.05 8.65 9.30 8.975 35.975
1 Captiol Gym
9 Puget Sound
I believe Rachele will post the complete listing later on.
Okay, now that we've gotten the scores out of the way, I get to treat
you to all sorts of aimless ramblings about this Junior meet!
Once again, I was seated right in front of the uneven bars, so I
concentrated on them more than any other event, although I did keep an
eye on beam. We were in a very awkward place to catch much vault, so
I saw precious little of that. I caught some floor, but unevens is
definitely my favorite event, so let's start with that!
Saw lots of double layout dismounts, which is fine in my book. A lot
of the girls seem to have mastered this dismount. I really like it
because it looks so pretty. And the only way to do it properly is to
open up and fly. It looks so easy, although you and I know it's not.
That's what bars should look like, nice and easy. I guess that is the
trouble I have with a lot of uneven bars routines: The women are so
busy getting all of these skills in, going back and forth between the
bars, that it often looks rushed and cramped. There's very little of
the look that their flying. Most of the Tkatchevs don't have much
amplitude. My guess is that this is due to a subtle fear of missing
the regrasp then nailing the low bar, but maybe it's just a hard trick
to do on uneven bars. The bars are stiff and the juniors are so tiny
that maybe it's difficult to get much spring on that sucker when you're
tapping for a release skill. Do I even know what I'm talking about?
At any rate, there were some nice uneven bar routines. Melinda
Baimbridge showed a nice Yaeger. Elise Ray (Docksiders) showed a very
pretty half-in half-out. Taryn Apgood (9.275, Olympus) did the
sweetest Stalders. I think she and Lisa Geckle (CATS, 6.95, she had
some falls) performed the only Stalders I'd seen for the meet.
They were a surprise, since you don't see them often (how come?), and
they both had nice clean lines while doing them. A+! Or, as Beavis and
Butthead would say:
Stalders rule!...Yeah!...they...kickass! (Hey! This is a *family*
Back to unevens. Alexis Brion missed out on first when she had
trouble on her full-in. Looks like she held on a little long, then
brought it around too quickly, overrotating. She must have landed
barely two feet from the bar. Jamie Dantzscher, unless I'm mistaken,
did a double double dismount (do my eyes deceive me?)!
April Burkholder (Karolyi) had a solid routine (9.075). Picture
perfect Yaeger. Half-in half-out dismount. She's fun to watch.
Saw Kendall Beck (Capitol) miss her Yaeger. Just bringing it up since
I realized you can often tell when someone's about to screw up. The
missed release is usually just the result of a botched prior skill.
With uneven, you have precious time to recover!
I saw precious little of this, given my angle. Saw Alexis Brion
warming up her vaults quite a bit. Looked like she was having trouble
(and I would too, if the vault were taller than me!) But I caught her
second vault (front double tucked) and she nailed it cold.
Saw a bit of this, though not *too* incredibly much. April Burkholder
caught my eye (9.25). She has a lot of presence on the apparatus and was
doing things like three consecutive layouts and craziness like it was
a piece of cake. She has those pixie mannerisms that are kind of
annoying (pretending to play piano - sound familiar?) but surely you
can't blame the girl for this. At any rate, she's a name that you
should watch out for.
Michiko Ishikawa (Dynamo, 8.175) was performing a very nice routine,
until she fell. Oh well. I'm surprised this doesn't happen more
often than it does. Michiko had a rough meet, but maybe with a little
more meet experience she'll be up there. She certainly has very clean
Alexis Brion had an incredibly solid routine. Nice presence and
precision up there. She's certainly a joy to watch!
I'm sorry I didn't see Gail Kachura or Kinsey Rowe on beam. Maybe
someone else can comment on their routines?
Didn't see much of floor, concentrating on beam and uneven bars. My
first impression is that the music is often a non-issue on this event:
It isn't very well-coordinated with the routines, or maybe the girls are
just too young to relate to it much. That can't be, because there are
all sorts of young girls that can dance out there. But in these meets
the music is often a distraction at best. I try not to even listen to
it, because it tends to mask both good and bad technique.
Hey, here's a thought: Let's have another big discussion on gymn as to
whether or not guys should add music to their floor or women should get
rid of theirs! ;^)
At any rate, there were a couple of things going on over there on
floor that caught my eye:
April Burkholder certainly has a lot of poise on floor and gave an
enjoyable routine, despite some trouble (8.175, must have fallen here
and there.) Wasn't too crazy about the choreography, but then again
this is simply a personal preference. You may ask why I'm going out
of my way to comment on an 8.175 routine. Well, I feel obliged to
commenting on anything that pulls my eye away from whatever I'm
watching to see it. It usually means there's something special going
Nekia Demery (Kraft Acadamy, 8.925) actually generated some excitement
with her music and dance. It was more like NCAA with its rave music and
such. In large doses (pretty much any NCAA meet) it drives me crazy,
but in this setting it was actually a welcome change!
In all it was a very enjoyable meet. Hope the folks trying to get in
at the last minute found some tickets. Seeing how junior optionals
were ~75% full, seniors were surely jam packed.
Speaking of senior optionals, I had to bail, but Rachele was there. I'm
as in the dark as to what happened Saturday night as you are!
Yours in Gymnastics,
Had to bail from senior optionals Saturday night to make it to the
CAL/Stanford/UCSB men's and CAL/UC Davis/UCSB women's meet, under pain
of torture since I was the official scorer. So busy was I poking my
head in the computer (I do this for a living, so naturally I do it for
fun on the weekends with no pay!) I didn't get a chance to see that
much of the meet, though I did catch CAL and Stanford's high bar
rotations. I think Texx was there, judging from the email I just saw,
so why don't we try to cajole a full report from him on the men's side,
and from Kathy Elbasani from the women's side? ;^)
At any rate highbar was heck-a-cool. The fellows were doing some
*serious* releasing. One Stanford fellow actually performed a Kovaks
with a full twist and nailed it. What do you call that, besides
insane? (I think I saw a name for it in IG a year back.) And a CAL
fellow (don't you love it when I don't mention names?) crashed and
burned on what looked to be a Yaeger *beneath* the bar. I'm sure this
is not what it's called, and it's probably not even what it was, but
I'll have to do some research to come up with a description of the
skill. I have a friend that was videotaping, so maybe he caught it.
UCSB also showed some nice highbar work. The guys were having fun,
and the crowd of 1,003 (this is big for Harmon Gym), with 6 teams to
choose from, had a good time.
Caught a glimpse of pommels, aka "beam for men". But I really can't
make many (any) comments, since I didn't write anything down. Texx?
The CAL '75 champion team was there for a special introduction.
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 15:20:29 -0700 (MST)
Subject: American Classic - Junior Optionals
> Saw Alexis Brion warming up her vaults quite a bit. Looked like she was
having trouble (and I would too, if the vault were taller than me!) But I
caught her second vault (front double tucked) and she nailed it cold.
Wait, wait, are we talking double front here? I might believe it
since it is Alexis. The kid's like eleven and has been in gymnastics like
four years and has more difficulty then half of the US men. I heard she
was doing a Yurtchenko-double back. A handspring double front might be an
equal 2nd vault!
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 21:24:56 -0500 (EST)
Subject: American Classic - Junior Optionals
> > Saw Alexis Brion warming up her vaults quite a bit. Looked like she was
> having trouble (and I would too, if the vault were taller than me!) But I
> caught her second vault (front double tucked) and she nailed it cold.
> Wait, wait, are we talking double front here?
There is a certain habit among male gymnasts in Puerto Rico of calling
handspring fronts "double front" without the "handspring" part, the logic
of this being that the handspring is the first flip and the front is the
second flip. Accordingly, they call a handspring double front a triple.
Where they picked this up, I don't know, and none of the girls say it
that way. What I'm wondering, then, is whether men elsewhere do the same
thing and the vault George is referring to is just an ordinary handspring
front. I was kind of assuming that, because I couldn't imagine some tiny
kid like that doing a handspring double front, but if this one can
do a Yurchenko double back, as Amanda said, then maybe she can do a
handspring double front too.
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 08:56:23 -0800
Subject: American Classic Info
Help!!! My friend and her kids are going to Oakland tomorrow for the
American Classic and she doesn't know where it's being held. If someone
could send me info on 1) where it is and 2)if the tickets are assigned
seating or open seating, I'd really appreciate it.
And if anyone watches the Jr. Optionals on Saturday, give a cheer for one
of my daughter's teamates - Vanessa Atler - she's got a great floor routine
(among other things).
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 13:24:49 -0500 (EST)
Subject: American Classic Location
The meet is being held at the Henry J. Laiser Convention Center at 10
Tenth Street, Oakland Ca. I don't have any information about seating.
Hope this helps.
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 95 16:27:18 -0800
Subject: American Classic Ramblings
I found someone selling tickets for face cost within two minutes of
arrival, so needless to say I was thrilled to get in since I drove three
hours to get there.
Elfie Schlegel (sp.) was casually standing on the corner by herself
when I got there, as if she were waiting for a bus. I was in the lobby
during the third rotation or so of senior optionals and Svetlana was picking
free samples from one of the merchants. She had a handfull of scrunchies and
when she was finished looking the Karolyi coach that was with her told her
to tell the merchant she was done. She said, "Me done!" and then made her
way back to one of the VIP entrances. A young girl asked for an autograph
when she was leaving but she said, "Sorry, I should go."
I wasn't there for anything before senior optionals, and I didn't
take notes, so I won't pretend like I know everything that went on.
I was very impressed with the difficulty level that was
demonstrated. My only complaints would be that the pace of the competition
was a little slow (the awards ceremony was very long) and the PA system was
awful. Maybe since I work with sound it was especially irritating, but I
also felt sorry for the girls performing on the floor who must've had
trouble hearing their music.
I loved Doni Thompson's full and a half turn to mixed-grip regrasp
on bars. Shannon threw three layouts on beam again, although she had a
balance check. The last time I saw her do three was at the 93 Amer. Cup,
where she fell on that move. Maybe she figures she needs it for worlds? She
also did a full-in off bars, so has she finally given up on the double
layout she's had so much trouble with lately?
It looks like the fact that the front 1 1/2 twist on floor has been
down-graded to a D has forced a few of the girls to go for front double
twists. And a couple pulled it off. Wow.
I'm sure others will get more specific about all this, so I guess
that's all I need to say. I had a blast.
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 10:22:08 -0700 (MST)
Subject: American Classic Results
1995 American Classic
February 17-18, 1995
Henry J. Kaiser Convention Center
Final Standings, Scores weighted 60 compulsories /40 optionals
1. Shannon Miller, 78.410
2. Amanda Borden, 77.520
2. Dominique Moceanu, 77.520
4. Amy Chow, 76.140
5. Katie Teft, 76.080
6. Doni Thompson, 75.180
7. Kristy Powell, 75.170
8. Jaycie Phelps, 75.070
9. Mary Beth Arnold, 75.030
10. Mohini Bhardwaj, 74.540
10. Mina Kim, 74.540
10. Kellee Davis, 74.540
13. Heather Brink, 73.910
13. Theresa Kulikowski, 73.910
15. Marianna Webster, 73.720
16. Sarah Cain, 73.680
17. Alecia Ingram, 73.590
18. Sarah Balogach, 73.400
19. Karin Lichey, 73.230
19. Soni Meduna, 73.230
21. Monica Flammer, 72.990
22. Jenni Beathard, 72.940
23. Amy Murakami, 72.810
24. Kristen Maloney, 72.420
25. Rachel Rochelli, 72.460
26. Jessica Rieland, 72.330
27. Deidre Graham, 72.030
28. Raegan Tomasek, 72.020
29. Kristy Lichey, 71.940
30. Jamie Martini, 71.770
31. Elizabeth Reid, 71.380
32. Katie Fitzpatrick, 71.170
33. Lanna Apisukh, 70.530
34. Heidi Hornbeek, 70.340
35. Abby Burns, 70.150
36. Kristin Jensen, 70.080
37. Deborah Mink, 69.650
38. Brittany Penman, 69.470
39. Brooke Anderson, 69.260
40. Heidi Harriman, 69.230
41. Marissa Medal, 69.140
42. Rebecca Whitehurst, 68.970
43. Cassidy Vreeke, 68.700
44. Maria Taylor, 68.630
45. Beth Amelkovich, 68.510
46. Tami Taylor, 68.170
47. Amy Shelton, 62.830
48. Kara Fry, 44.370
49. Svetlana Boguinskaya, 42.870
50. Becky Meldrum, 37.100
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 1995 14:36:02 -0500
Subject: Bama-Georgia controversy
Well, it's been a good week for all of those who like a
little controversy mixed in with their gymnastics. For those
who don't know, Georgia beat Bama,who was without Meredith
Willard, last year's SEC freshman of the year, and without
the type of super-wide bars they normally use, (Georgia, this
years NCAA champs. host, said they didn't have the equipment )
196.2 to 194.825. End of story, right? Nope. After the meet,
Georgia's coach, Suzzane Yoculan, never known for tact or grace,
Alabama "losers" and said that her team was better coached.
Prior to the meet,in an article in the AJC, she basically
accused Sara Patterson of being two faced, of secretly
circulating an article unfavorable to Yoculan at last year's NCAA
champs., and whined that Bama gets brownie points from the judges
because of their reputation of being class acts. Which, IMHO,
she could learn a lot from.
Anyway, to make a long story short, Yoculan was officially
reprimanded by the SEC and the University of Georgia for
making "inappropriate and unbecoming" statements and for
"clearly violating the SEC Code of Ethics." She was also
told that if she does it again, she will be
suspended for one or more meets. I give her 2 weeks until
she gets suspended. That's when Georgia comes to Bama for a
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 15:54:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: bay area meets tonight & sat late flash
#1 San Jose State gymnastics meet TONIGHT ! (Fri nite!)
UC Santa Barbara men AND womens meet.
Starts at 19:30 hrs (7:30 PM)
#2 Mens meet at Berkeley SATURDAY night Harmon Gym.
Pat Tower & I will be there (again look for the ponytail and
Ill try and get full schedule posted ASAP !
Finally, WWW folks, (Rachele, dis' ones' fer yew!) :
Mailing list for WWW managers.
Mail to email@example.com
It will ignore the subject field but make the message say
and the majordomo system will automatically handle the administrivia
for ypou getting you registered.
Does Robyn want a copy of majordomo for OUR list ?
Perspiring minds want to know......
Well kids, keep the chalk outta your nose and the sweat outta your rips,
put a big smile on your face, and wherever you go, dont walk, DANCE !
(The great big galoot "texx" dances off the end of the balance beam with
a loud crash !)
PS: Will Litwin & Atkins be at Berkeley ?
PPS: Atkins & I HAVE MET but he dont remember me..... (whimper)
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 10:51:16 -0500
Looking for some Women's Gymnastic Clipart. Does anyone have any
the can email or know of a source.
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 20:48:14 -0500 (EST)
Subject: coaches using videos
I know that Steve Nunno uses videos with Shannon to help her with her
performances. A gymn friend (thank you! - you know who you are) sent me an
episode of "Eye-Witness Video" that showed him and Shannon going over videos of
her various routines, and Steve explained how he uses the footage to help
Shannon with technique and aesthetic appearance. He would run the video in slow
motion so Shannon could see exactly where her errors were. He said using videos
was very helpful, because it allows Shannon to actually see for herself where
she is making mistakes. When she can see it for herself, Steve doesn't feel so
bad about criticizing her and it usually makes the problem easier for her to
correct. He said that using videos contributed in large part to Shannon's
successes in the Olympics, and he thinks if the judges had used video slow-mo,
Shannon would have won the AA gold. He didn't say this in an arrogant or catty
way; he seemed to just be making the point that Shannon's form was better than
Gutsu's. I tend to agree!
The show included footage of Shannon doing gymnastics when she was quite
young, so video-taping must be a common practice at Dynamo, for gymnasts at ALL
levels. I personally think it's a great idea!
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 03:58:30 -0500
Subject: Coca Cola qualifications
What are the qualifications the levels 5 & 6's to go to the Coca Cola
Classic? I always assumed that it was for elite gymnast only.
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 95 22:56:43 GMT
Subject: Details of Giurca's death
I know it's been a while now, but in one of today's (19th Feb) British
newspapers, "The Mail on Sunday", there was a two page "Special
Investigation" feature on the death of Adriana Giurca, the Romanian
gymnast. It was titled "The little girl who died for Gold" and was
written by Kim Willsher in Bucharest. The article includes pictures
of Adriana Giurca, in the gym and off it, together with a picture of
her mother Maria standing beside Ariana's grave. There is also a
picture of Giurca with her coach who killed her, Florin Gheorghe,
as giurca was sitting on Gheorghe's lap as they were travelling
on a train (I think). I've picked out the bit describing the detail
of the cause of death:
"He grabbed this fragile wisp of a girl and smashed her head against
the beam, lashing out with his fists and feet. She begged for mercy.
'Please stop, you will kill me!' she screamed. But his attack was
relentless. Finally he picked her up and threw her to the floor.
She landed on the padded mats with such force that her spine
was pushed into her brain, leaving her in a coma. Two days later she
And the bit described by Adriana's father Emile:
"When her father came to pick her up at lunchtime, he was met at the
door by Florin Gheorghe. 'He said there had been an accident, that
Adriana had fallen.' Emile recalls.
'I ran inside and saw the other young girls in a line crying.
Adriana was lying on a bench in the locker room. I called out her name,
but one of the women trainers told me not to bother because she was
in a coma and couldn't hear.'
Emile carried his daughter's limp body to the car and, thinking
she had a spinal injury, laid her on a piece of wood on the back seat
to take her to the hospital half a mile away. 'I didn't know what
had happened and there wasn't time to ask. After she was admitted to
intensive care the doctor said she was probably going to die.
'Maria and I stayed at her bedside talking to her until she
died on Monday morning. She never regained consciousness or made any
movement, but just before she died tears fell from her eyes.'"
posted by Sherwin
Hope this doesn't break the copyright rules... I've quoted only
about 10% of the complete article.
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 04:53:26 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Gymn Reporters for the American Classic
I've sent this msg before but apparently it didn't make it through.
George and I will *both* be reporting on this competition for Gymn. A
lot of Gymners are going to this meet, so it'll be fun to hear various
impressions on here. If you have any questions about score or
whatsoever, feel free to email me this weekend and we'll try to hunt
down your answer.
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 20:37:45 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Hi everyone!!!
Hi everyone!!! I'm new here on Gymn, so I guess I'll introduce myself. My
name is Beth and I'm 18. I am from Brroklyn, N.Y., but right now, I'm at
Binghamton University. I love gymnastics - it's my favorite sport. I used
to do gymnastics when I was younger and now I just watch it all the time.
I like all gymnasts, but my favorite gymnasts are Kim Zmeskal, Kerri
Strug, Amanda Borden, Shannon Miller (basically all U.S. gymnasts), Lilia
Podkopayeva, Tatiana Lissenko, Mo Huilan, and Lavinia Milosovici. and I
guess if you ask me again another time I'll probably think of some more.
Well, I guess that's all I can think of about myself. I look foward to
hearing from everyone on gymn!
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 13:30:01 -0500
Subject: Intro & High School Gymn.
I'll make this introduction short. My name is Gail I competed for
10 years in club and College (San Francisco State Division II). I have
coached in local clubs and now am a teacher/coach at a High School in San
I would be interested in hearing from anyone envolved in High School
Gymnastics especially those from California. Please let me know if you know
a CA High School that has a team.
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 12:22:42 -0500 (EST)
I just finished browsing the introduction file and thought it was about time
that I did the same. My name is Mike and I just joined the list a few days
ago. I just finished my PhD in Accountancy at Ole Miss last fall and am
teaching at Stetson University in DeLand, FL. I think I first became interestedin gymnastics because its participants were such physical opposites of me
(am 6'3" and a former football defensive lineman).
My earliest recollections of gymastics is the '76 olympics, but I also recall
catching meets on cable in the late 70's and early 80's. Remember Tracee
Talavera and Julianne McNamara? My interest was revived in 1987 when I
went to the University of Florida to work on my Master's degree. I really
enjoy college women's gymnastics and am a big Lady Gator fan. Are there any
others out there? I also enjoy watching the elite level women's gymnasts in
the U.S. and throughout the world. I have a soft spot for Wendy Bruce because
she is from my home state.
I look forward to talking to you all!
PS--to the fellow from the University of Georgia: you may not remember, but
UGA and Florida were very big rivals back in the late 1980's. We had a great
recruiting year last year and I hope that our rivalry begins to intensify again!
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 95 14:53 PST
Subject: Leah Homma
There was a story in the school paper the other day about Leah and she
was saying that she didn't realize she was a bad dancer until she saw
herself on video and she talked about how she has been trying to
improve on it.. which she has...
What do you say we send some video to Dominique?
p/s Stella Umeh's beam choreography was dynamite...
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 95 18:43:58 EST
Subject: Leah Homma
>There was a story in the school paper the other day about Leah and she
>was saying that she didn't realize she was a bad dancer until she saw
>herself on video and she talked about how she has been trying to
>improve on it.. which she has...
I can understand how she didn't know what she looked like
(it's always a surprise to see yourself on video the
first time, and often not a pleasant one), but hasn't
she had coaches all these years?
Do gymnasts tend to look at videos of themselves, or not?
It's become a common practice in a number of sports.
The video can even be computer-analyzed for all sorts
of neat biomechanical stuff. There was a Nova episode
about this several years ago on PBS, but honestly don't
remember if gymnastics was one of the sports discussed.
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 18:52:54 -0600
Subject: Leah Homma & videos
>Do gymnasts tend to look at videos of themselves, or not?
>It's become a common practice in a number of sports.
>The video can even be computer-analyzed for all sorts
>of neat biomechanical stuff. There was a Nova episode
>about this several years ago on PBS, but honestly don't
>remember if gymnastics was one of the sports discussed.
The NOVA episode was entitled something like "Can Science Build a Champion
Athlete?" and it did include a very nice segment on gymnastics. As I
recall, it showed how some biomechanists set up their video cameras to
collect 3D high bar data at the '92 Olympics. It then showed a comparison
of some actual release moves and the "digitized" version of the same moves
displayed on a computer (including Dimas' Kovacs), and it discussed some of
the kinematic variables that had been analyzed. The program also featured
some really cool computer graphics of various skills developed by a group
I think watching videos of practice sessions or meets (especially on a VCR
that can be advanced frame by frame) is extremely valuable for gymnasts and
is especially important for coaches (but then, I am a biomechanist who
likes to think that my work is worthwhile...)
I would be curious to know how many coaches or gymnasts out there use video
on a regular basis, and whether you think it is helpful.
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 09:43:01 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Leah Homma & videos
> Kathy said:
> >Do gymnasts tend to look at videos of themselves, or not?
> >It's become a common practice in a number of sports.
> >The video can even be computer-analyzed for all sorts
> >of neat biomechanical stuff. There was a Nova episode
> >about this several years ago on PBS, but honestly don't
> >remember if gymnastics was one of the sports discussed.
> I think watching videos of practice sessions or meets (especially on a VCR
> that can be advanced frame by frame) is extremely valuable for gymnasts and
> is especially important for coaches (but then, I am a biomechanist who
> likes to think that my work is worthwhile...)
> I would be curious to know how many coaches or gymnasts out there use video
> on a regular basis, and whether you think it is helpful.
When I can get to a meet that my team is competing in, I tape everyone,
because I think it's really important to see what you look like when you
do gymnastics. A lot of times you'll see little things that you didn't
really know you did. Also, I like to see how piked I am on my layouts on
floor, or how much my knees bend on my uprises on bars, because it's hard
to get a feel for these things while you're performing the trick. Plus,
all that video footage makes a great end-of-season highlights/lowlights
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 17:10:16 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Leah Homma & videos
> When I can get to a meet that my team is competing in, I tape everyone,
> because I think it's really important to see what you look like when you
> do gymnastics.
I agree that watching tapes is immensely important, but I think that it's
not enough just to watch meet tapes (well, except maybe when you're
competing every weekend like in the NCAA season). Assuming there is
equipment available and someone to do the taping, of course. It's one
thing I would make sure to do if I could do it all over again. The
frequency would depend, I guess, on what the gymnast is working on and
how it's progressing. I think watching tapes of other good gymnasts is
important too, for that matter.
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 18:34:20 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Mixed Pairs vs. Pan Am Games
I was looking at a calender of the coming gymnastics competitions, and I
was very surprised. Right after the American Cup ends, the Pan Am Games
begin. And the Pan Am Games conflict with Mixed Pairs. I don't know who
makes up the schedule of events, but I think it's terrible that a gymnast
has to chose between 2 events and can't compete in both!!
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 18:35:36 -0500
Subject: Need Trivia Questions--Pan Am Games
Now that the Pan Am teams are soon to be set, why not a Pan Am Trivia Set?
Send me your questions, one and all!!!!!!!!!
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 16:46:21 EST
Subject: Please make sure your posting has a Subject: line
Otherwise it will choke the digesting software.
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 1995 14:15:55 -0700 (MST)
Subject: Scores from American Classic
1995 American Classic
February 17-18, 1995
Henry J. Kaiser Convention Center
Gymnasts with * are juniors competing in the Pan Am Trials.
The top four seniors (unastericked) and top three juniors (astericked) will be
selected for the
Pan Am Games team.
Rank, Name, Gym, Raw Score, Weighted, Event Breakdown [VT, UB, BB, FX]
1. Shannon Miller (Dynamo), 39.075 / 46.890 (9.85, 9.65, 9.7, 9.875)
*2. Dominique Moceanu (Karolyi's), 38.900 / 46.680 (9.8, 9.525, 9.7, 9.875)
3. Amanda Borden (Cincinnati Gymnastics), 38.600 / 46.320 (9.575, 9.6, 9.6,
*4. Katie Teft (Great Lakes), 37.600 / 45.120 (9.325, 9.475, 9.325, 9.475)
5. Amy Chow (West Valley), 37.400 / 44.880 (9.65, 9.725, 8.35, 9.675)
6. Jaycie Phelps (Cincinnati Gymnastics), 37.325 / 44.790 (9.3, 9.475, 9.075,
7. Kellee Davis (American Twisters) 37.200 / 44.640 (9.675, 9.2, 9.025, 9.3)
*8. Doni Thompson (Colorado Aerials)37.150 / 44.580 (9.425, 9.05, 9.125, 9.55)
9. Kristy Powell (Colorado Aerials) 37.125 / 44.550 (9.475, 8.625, 9.325, 9.7)
10. Kara Fry (Parkettes), 36.975 / 44.370 (9.3, 9.075, 9.35, 9.25)
11. Theresa Kulikowski (Colorado Aerials), 36.925 / 44.310 (8.575, 9.425,
*12. Mary Beth Arnold (), 36.825 / 44.190 (9.45, 9.125, 9.0, 9.25)
**13. Mina Kim (Dynamo), 36.800 / 44.160
14. Mohini Bhardwaj (Brown's), 36.650 / 43.980
15. Sarah Balogach (Parkettes), 36.550 / 43.860
16. Marianna Webster (Dynamo), 36.550 / 43.860
17. Alecia Ingram (Dynamo), 36.475 / 43.770
18. Sarah Cain (Grand Island Twister's), 36.400 / 43.680
19. Monica Flammer (Cypress), 36.325 / 43.590
20. Soni Meduna (Dynamo), 36.275 / 43.530
21. Karin Lichey (Cincinnati Gymnastics), 36.175 / 43.410
22. Rachel Rochelli (Cypress), 36.100 / 43.320
23. Deidre Graham (Olympus), 36.075 / 43.290
24. Jessica Rieland (Dynamo), 36.025 / 43.230
25. Kristy Lichey (Cincinnati Gymnastics), 36.000 / 43.200
26. Amy Murakami (New England Gymnastics Express), 35.975 / 43.170
26. Heather Brink (Dynamo), 35.975 / 43.170
28. Jenni Beathard (Brown's), 35.950 / 43.140
29. Svetlana Boguinskaya (Karolyi's), 35.725 / 42.870
30. Katie Fitzpatrick (Queen City), 35.625 / 42.750
31. Jamie Martini (Dynamo), 35.625 / 42.750
32. Amy Shelton (Starfires), 35.575 / 42.690
33. Kristen Maloney (Parkettes), 35.450 / 42.540
34. Raegan Tomasek (Gym X-L), 35.350 / 42.420
35. Lanna Apisukh (Broadway), 35.275 / 42.330
36. Elizabeth Reid (Karon's), 35.100 / 42.120
37. Kristin Jensen (Parkettes), 34.800 / 41.760
38. Brittany Penman (Rocky Mountain ), 34.525 / 41.430
38. Maria Taylor (Atlanta School of Gymnastics), 34.525 / 41.430
40. Cassidy Vreeke (Rocky Mountain ), 34.450 / 41.340
41. Deborah Mink (Scats), 34.175 / 41.010
42. Heidi Hornbeek (Arizona Sunrays), 34.000 / 40.800
43. Abby Burns (Cypress), 33.925 / 40.710
44. Heidi Harriman (Peach State), 33.725 / 40.470
45. Beth Amelkovich (Illinois Gymnastics), 33.525 / 40.230
46. Becca Whitehurst (Capital Gymnastics), 33.425 / 40.110
47. Marissa Medal (American Twisters), 33.300 / 39.960
48. Tami Taylor (Scats), 32.925 / 39.510
49. Brooke Anderson (Atlanta School of Gymnastics), 32.900 / 39.480
50. Becky Meldrum (Parkettes), 24.85 / 29.820
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 1995 11:58:43 -0800
Subject: The American Classic
Greetings, Gymn fans,
Down here in the gymnastics mecca, aka SF Bay Area. All of the
beautiful and otherwise famous people are here: Rachele, Susan,
Nancy... Bela, Boginskaya (she hasn't lost her edge!) Okay,
that's some motley category above.
This here needs to be short and sweet. Junior warm-ups are
happening now as we speak and I'm at home, unshaven. I'd better
get on the stick, like quick!
With the many number of gymners here, you'll probably see all
sides of this competition. Last night was compulsories. Fair
crowd for that kind of thing, but lacking the excitement that is
usually saved for optionals.
Here's a quick rundown of the scores for the top 10 competitors:
GYMNAST VT UB BM FLR TOTAL WGT
1 Shannon Miller 9.85 9.65 9.70 9.875 39.075 46.89
2 Dominique Moceanu 9.80 9.525 9.70 9.875 38.90 46.68
3 Amanda Borden 9.575 9.60 9.60 9.825 38.60 46.32
4 Katie Teft 9.325 9.475 9.325 9.475 37.60 45.12
5 Amy Chow 9.65 9.725 8.35 9.675 37.40 44.88
6 Jaycie Phelps 9.30 9.475 9.075 9.475 37.325 44.79
7 Kellee Davis 9.675 9.20 9.025 9.30 37.20 44.64
8 Doni Thompson 9.425 9.05 9.125 9.55 37.15 44.58
9 Kristy Powell 9.475 8.625 9.325 9.70 37.125 44.55
10 Kara Fry 9.30 9.075 9.35 9.25 36.975 44.37
I'll post a more thorough listing later tonight or early tomorrow,
that is unless Rachele beats me to it. ;^)
I really like compulsories. I don't think they're boring at all.
They give you such a good idea about a gymnast's technique and
Although Boginskaya is currently way down in the standings (29th -
trouble on beam), she is a jewel to watch. To me she looks the same
as in '92. So much personality and elegance. She's a gymnast that
allows you to see the art behind the technique.
Shannon Miller Is and was a great gymnast. Her form is almost
picture perfect throughout. You can use her as a textbook
example of how the compulsories should look
Whatever it is, Dominique Moceanu has it. She has the stamp of a
gymnastics star. I was mesmerized by all of her routines,
especially beam, which looked to be the best of the night. Not a
trace of uncertainty in her routines. Last I saw her was in '93 at
Nationals, where her form was little bit rough at times. She's come a
long way in the past 2 years.
Amanda Borden's form has also cleaned up quite a bit from what I
remember. She was always a very good gymnast, but would make
little mistakes: clumsy landing, loose legs, you know. She seemed
more polished last night from what I remember at the Hilton
Doni Thompson looked maybe a little tentative last night. She
didn't attack her beam routine it seems. I loved her UB routine,
Speaking of uneven bars, this is the event I saw the most of,
since it was right in front of me. It's my favorite routine, to
boot. Here's the compulsory:
Straddle over low bar, kip cast to handstand, half pirouette,
giant, half pirouette, giant, slip grip to handstand on low bar,
free hip hecht to upper bar, kip to hand stand, free hip to hand
stand, giant, toe-on front with 1/2.
One of the giants in the first part *might* be a free hip to
handstand. I kind of remember there being two of these. In
short, there are lots of possible places to screw up, and there
were lots of screw-ups. The easiest screw-up on this routine,
besides falling off, looked to be not quite making it to a
handstand. Regrasp on the highbar also gave some people some
trouble, which is small wonder, since it's kind of blind.
Speaking of blind, I guess what I call pirouette is in reality
a blind change, given the direction. You know what I mean. Most
of the girls looked like they stuck the landing pretty well.
Woo, I have *got* to get out of here!
Yours in Gymnastics,
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 14:16:53 -0500 (EST)
Subject: The American Classic
> Straddle over low bar, kip cast to handstand, half pirouette,
> giant, half pirouette, giant, slip grip to handstand on low bar,
> free hip hecht to upper bar, kip to hand stand, free hip to hand
> stand, giant, toe-on front with 1/2.
Close, but not quite. I think this should be: straddle over lb, kip cast to
handstand, half pirouette, free hip to handstand, half pirouette, swing
down between the bars, straddle back to handstand, kip, free hip hecht to
hb, kip cast to handstand, giant, toe-on front-half. I left out the
giant to slip grip in the middle because I'm not sure it actually *has*
to be there. Does anyone know for sure? (My copy of this stuff is at
home.) In the '85-'88 compulsory, there was a handstand 1/2 pirouette
to straddle back and people started doing the giant to slip grip to
maximize amplitude, but as I recall, it wasn't written into the routine
that way. In fact, I think the way it happened was that an Italian
gymnast did it in Montreal '85 and the judges didn't even know what to do
about it. But by '87 everyone was doing it.
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 15:02:52 -0700 (MST)
Subject: the slip-grip historical note to what Adriana wrote...
On Feb 19, adriana wrote:
> In fact, I think the way it happened was that an Italian
> gymnast did it in Montreal '85 and the judges didn't even know what to do
> about it. But by '87 everyone was doing it.
The gymnast was long-time Italian national team member Giula
Volpi. She performed a full-pirouette on HB, slip-grip to straddle-back
to handstand on LB. The judges did not know whether to give her credit
for immediate sequence of full pir. to straddle-back hs.
This was mentioned in the IG issue that recapped '87 Worlds
because gymnasts on the top teams (USSR, Romania, etc.) were now using
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 21:15:37 -0500 (EST)
Subject: the slip-grip historical note to what Adriana wrote...
> The gymnast was long-time Italian national team member Giula
> Volpi. She performed a full-pirouette on HB, slip-grip to straddle-back
> to handstand on LB. The judges did not know whether to give her credit
> for immediate sequence of full pir. to straddle-back hs.
Hmm... I guess this means she didn't do it in compulsories then? Or that
the judges didn't have a problem with it in compulsories?
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 06:35:17 -0500
Subject: UCLA INVITATIONAL
Uhh, Kathy, was I on acid at the meet, or were there men's teams there too?
As I remember, there actually was a little more to the men's competition than
Scott Keswick, albiet not much, so there may have been something interesting
Like, how did the UCLA Alumni team manage to get its collective butt kicked
by the UCLA varsity _and_ BYU. (Excuse me? BYU? They have a team?)
In fact, WHY was the Alumni team there in the first place? Is it getting that
difficult to find a mens' team these days?
Did anyone notice Bela? Did Bela say anything of note? How about the clinic
Did Karima throw the meet so that Leah could have her time in the sun, or is
Leah "just that damn good?" (Halfhearted apologies to washed-out Philidelphia
DJ John DiBella)
How 'bout that '96 compulsory Zmeskal showed the world after the competition?
Is it me, or was Peter Vidmar's ability to throw consecutive Thomas flairs on
pommel 11 years and five kids after his olympic gold (in a SUIT, no less) far
more impressive than Kim the Karolyi Komebak Kid and her Kompetent
BTW, re that '96 compulsory, I think the yawns come much more from the actual
composition of the piece than Kim's performance thereof. When they write the
Big History of Modern Gymnastics, will they write that the compulsory went
out with a wimper?
Coming down off of a Nutra-Sweet high.
Date: Sat, 18 Feb 1995 21:13:54 -0500
Subject: UF-GA Collegiate Controversy
"(When Georgia and Alabama meet), gymnastics is a contact sport...A great
big cat fight. ..It's the 'Thrilla in Manila.' It's going to be eight rounds
of slugging it out. I mean it really is going to be the 'Rumble in the
Spoken by Georgia Head Coach Suzanne Yoculan, this is the highlighted
quotation from the Atlanta Constitution article on the day of the
Alabama-Georgia gymnastics meet. I have the entire article in front of me,
and as an editor, I find it to be a solid piece of journalism.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not taking sides in this Ga-Bama debate, but I will
say that the article points out things that other newspapers have been
fearful to write about for years. It's always been "wrong" to write about
anything other than the "beauty" and "grace" of gymnastics.
But the fact of the matter is that as collegiate women's gymnastics
continues to grow and the fan base increases, the crowds will become more
hostile and the teams will dislike each other a lot more. I, for one, don't
have a problem with that. Women's gymnastics is beginning to see what it's
like to become a major program among colleges.
The newspaper article points out good and bad about both teams. For
example, it talks about how Alabama once put in its visitor locker room a
sign that said, "Georgia: A thing of the past. Alabama had to put it there."
And it also mentions the time that when Georgia gave the 'Bama seniors
flowers, the seniors allegedly walked over to a garbage can and threw them
And when 'Bama's Sarah Patterson is told about a Georgia gymnast being
suspended for missing classes, she says, "Maybe that's another difference
between our programs."
On the flip side, as you already know, Yoculan is quoted consistently
trashing 'Bama. "I don't particularly care for Sarah Patterson," Yoculan says
in the article.
Women's collegiate gymnastics is not the gooey-happy thing it used to be.
It has changed. Some may argue that it's for the worse, but I think it's for
the better. Crowds are now getting involved, great rivalries are forming and
women's gymnastics is becoming far more popular.
I used to be one of those who would say, "Gosh, isn't it terrible that the
crowd is booing the visiting team?" But when I look at men's collegiate
gymnastics, I realize just how good the women's side has it. I really think I
must have sounded like a crybaby when I used complain about the "rowdy"
This is a side of women's gymnastics that may not have to be embraced but
should be recognized and harnessed.
As for the media, as it does in football, basketball, track, you name it, I
hope emphasis is not only put on the sport itself but on the personalities,
likes, dislikes and color behind it.
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 16:01:50 -0700 (MST)
Subject: update on Romanian cruelty story
Reuters has published an update on the Romanian gymnastics story about
the girl who was beaten to death.
- Her parents have filed an appeal that asked the Supreme Court of
Justice to change the former coach's eight-year jail sentence for
manslaughter into a harsher sentence for murder. Murder carries up to
20 years in jail.
- Several quotes from the mother and sports school were in the article
but they were all the exact same statements we have read already. One
that I'm not sure if I've read on Gymn though is that the Romanian
gymnastics federation said Giurca's death was an "unfortunate event,"
and that the use of violence was not admissible in training gymnasts
for top performance.
Date: Thu, 16 Feb 1995 18:30:27 -0500
Subject: USOC/NCAA Task force
Posting for the sake of consistency - not necessarily related to gymn - so
you can skip this if you wish.
Rachelle posts (in part):
>I am posting this because of it's relevance to the NCAA Men's
>USOC JOINS NCAA TO STRENGTHEN RELATIONSHIPS AND ASSIST ATHLETES
>...Appointed to the joint USOC/NCAA Task Force by Dr. Walker are:
> Cedric Dempsey, NCAA Executive Director*
> George Steinbrenner, USOC Vice-President*
> Bob Bowlsby, Athletic Director, The University of Iowa
> Judith A. Holland, Sr. Associate Athletic Director for Women's
> Col. Micki J. King (USAF Ret.), Special Assistant to the
>Athletic Director, The University of Kentucky
> Robert F. Kanaby, Executive Director, National Federation of
>State High School Associations (NFSHSA)
> Bill Stapleton, Austin, Texas, Olympic Swimmer ('88) and
>Attorney, USOC Athletes' Advisory Council
> Lynn Cannon, USOC Board of Directors member, Pan American Games
>Javelin Thrower ('75 & '79)
> Jim Fuchs, USOC Board of Directors member representing the
>Public Sector, Olympic Shot Putter ('48 & '52)
I just had to note (since the release didn't, for reasons I can't fathom),
that Col. Micki King was an Olympic diver during the '60s. She won at
least one gold - I think it was platform in '68. (She was a Lieutenant at
the time - that much I remember!)
Time to find the references...
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 1995 14:48:43 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Who's at American Classic?
I was just wondering who is going to be competing at the American Classic
this year. I know Amanda Borden will be there. Any information will be
appreciated. Also, where is it going to be held?
Date: Sun, 19 Feb 1995 16:42:36 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Yale vs. Vermont
Went to Yale's last home meet yesterday. It was about like the
Yale/Northeastern meet. The teams were pretty well matched in terms of
difficulty, but Yale was cleaner and more consistent (esp. on BB and FX)
and won by 1.5 or 2 points or so (they were down by .05 halfway
through). Vermont won vault.
End of gymn Digest