gymn Digest Tue, 13 Sep 94 Volume 3 : Issue 16

Today's Topics:
Bashing Mens Gymnastics
Bogy's Floor Roundup Results!!
First double back and other questions
fulls (2 msgs)
Fwd: no way
Henrietta as NCAA Gymnast
Internet questions (2 msgs)
Libelous Gymn Talk
Michelle Campi's Injury
no way
Nunno (3 msgs)
September Calendar
Steve, Peggy
THE FACTS
THE FACTS! (3 msgs)
Trivia #21 Answers
Trivia Questions #21-Floor Exercise

This is a digest of the gymn@athena.mit.edu mailing list.

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Date: Mon, 12 Sep 1994 12:55:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: ***@netcom.com
Subject: Bashing Mens Gymnastics


{...}

> Re all the posts about the men's meet being so slow and boring. I
> too, was really disappointed with the meet. I like to cheer for the
> men, but I like it much more when I have lots of good routines to
> cheer about.

Where does this crap come from ?
Since when do mens meets take longer than womens meets ?
Is this an anomaly ? In the Bay Area, our meets are over in less than 2 hrs
from the time we "try" to sing the national anthem
(Ray Charles is right, we DO need an anthem that EVERYone can sing!)

You all come out here and catch some of our meets out here.
Lets get those meet schedules posted before the season starts this time, OK ?

> 1. Scott Keswick won his first national title, despite the fact he's
> regularly been our best international performer (Scott-bashers, gag
> all you want, but I think it's fantastic that he pulled it off.)

Why does everyone pick on him? Seems everyone likes making snide cracks about
Snotty. I sit in the stands and hear the others in the audience making the
SNIDEST remarks about him. Now really how can any boy that pretty be that bad ?
Indeed !

> 2. Bill Roth, after goodness knows how many injuries for something
> like three years, finally came back healthy to competition and threw
> some great routines, especially high bar. He's easily the most
> popular guy on the National team -- he was the talk of press row for
> his personality. (Sort of the men's Amanda Borden, if you will.
> Everyone just seems to like them and their attitudes. Everyone wanted
> to interview him.)

Will he make a better journalist than Bart ?

> 3. Steve McCain also medaled -- that's two UCLA guys in the top three,
> a good indication that their program is still going strong.

If only I knew the magic they have down there, Id bottle it.
LA even in the club circuit guys gymn is popular and the program is alive
(Well it was flying high 2 years ago at least)
What are those guys doping down there that the rest of us arent ?

> 4. John Roethlisberger, in search of his fourth title, went through
> all of his optionals with a busted ankle that just kept swelling
> bigger and bigger throughout the night -- largely to obtain National
> training funds and make the Worlds team. Guts.

There is a martial arts term "Konjo" that is a better description.
Like the guy who hobbles into the fort with the bag of documents and does not
let the 100 arrows in his back kill him till he delivers the papers.

> 5. Jeremy Killen walked into the arena on Saturday thinking he was a
> finalist only in pommels, and an alternate on floor and pbars. He
> didn't even bring his floor shorts with him (he was the fourth
> alternate). He ended up with a gold on floor, silver on pbars (and,
> ironically, nothing on pommels.)

I didnt hear THIS story. I LOVE it ! Just goes to show, NUTHIN is final
until the "size challenged, femal operatic vocalist" musicalizes.

> Re the bashing of men's gymnastics in general -- if you really cared,
> you should be asking about what you could do to help men's gymnastics.
> Even something small like a note to the NACGC or USA Gymnastics saying
> you support the men's program would be something productive (such as
> Mara posted info about a little while ago).
>
And make it clear that if they pull the plug on guys gymn, then you will do
everything in ypour power to injure their funding for the sports that they
decide to KEEP. Organize boycots of football, basketball, baseball, golf etc.

NCAA is a political organization.
Only way to get there attention is to threaten their pocketbook.
Its a dirty job but they are pulling a dirty trick on us.
With NCAA mens gymn yanked, just how long do you thing it will be before we
finally have to give up on fielding a USOC mens gymn team ?

Write those letters ! Make those phonecalls untill their phones melt !
For those of you with real guts and a good lawyer,
Ill catch you the rattlesnakes you need outta Wildcat Canyon......


------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Sep 1994 14:54:51 -0700 (MST)
From: ***@imap1.asu.edu
Subject: Bogy's Floor Roundup Results!!

Thanks to all eight of you (if you include me) who sent me their favorite
Svetlana floor routines. The results are as follows:

#1. Gold Medal! 1988 Olympics "Carmen" 46 Points
#2. Silver Medal! (tie) Stuttgart '89 & '92 "Ilberte" 37 Points
#4. (yes there is no third) '90-'91 "Don't You Love My Hands?" 17 Points
#5. '90 "Bolero" 13 Points
#6. '87 "Maniac" Rotterdam Worlds 11 Points
#7. '87 US v CCCP "Blue Lips" 9 Points
#8. '88 CCCP Exhibition 7 Points
#9. '86 Junior Europeans 3 Points

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Sep 1994 19:55:41 -0400 (EDT)
From: ***@tiger.hsc.edu
Subject: First double back and other questions

For all the folks who don't have the ABC Greatest Moments in Gymnastics
video, Nadia also performed a doulbe back in 1976, though NOT at
the Olympics. (Unless she did it in team?) She had a "sore" ankle.

Did you know that the music for women's floor did not originally
specify piano? (IG some months back)

BTW--there is NO deduction if a gymnast's music stops but she continues
the routine. She will still be judged on what she performed.
(Technical failure.)

Finally--Does anyone have a tape of the 1987 Worlds? I've only
ever seen bits and pieces of it. Also, if anyone has Omelianchik (sp?)
in 1985 (Worlds) I'd appreciate it.

Julius

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Sep 94 11:49:18 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: fulls

Arms above the head sounds kinda ugly. Good point about the appearance of
less height. They may be taught that way some places (sounds like it could
be good for learning to keep your body tight, b/c I think the arm position
would make it harder), but I've never seen it actuallly performed that way.

Adriana

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Sep 1994 23:25:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: ***@delphi.com
Subject: fulls

regarding the teaching of fulls, I have all my gymnasts do single twists
with their arms out to the side or in front of them(center middle).
This aides in their 2/1 fulls when they actually "wrap " their arms.
good luck coaching everone
Craig

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Sep 94 10:02:29 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Fwd: no way

To all:
I am friends with campi herself and to whoever said she is definetly retiring
sorry-she said it herself SHE IS NOT RETIREING. This is HER LETTER to me as
of today. At the bottom u notice she said how do I join that gym club. Well
I told her about gymn and she seems interested in joining so I would like to
now if all of u would want her on. She is very nice and I think it would be
cool to have someone on gymn who is training at dynimo you now get the
inside scoop. :)
Well I sure would love to have her on what do u guys think?
-Melissa
---------------------
Forwarded message:
Subj: no way
Date: 94-09-10 23:11:37 EDT
From: ***@delphi.com

I just wanted to let you know that NO , I am not retiring. I am now training
at Dynamo Gymnastics. I am still on short workouts because of my back, but
things are moving along very well. The reason I am at Dynamo is because
my coach , Rick Newman, is now working there. So.....
Well, I just wnated to answwer your question, I hope all is well.
How do you get on to that gym club?
Take Care Melissa!
Michelle

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Sep 94 11:17 PDT
From: ***@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU
Subject: Henrietta as NCAA Gymnast

The thought of Henrietta Onodi with big hair frightens me.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Sep 94 16:30 EDT
From: ***@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
Subject: Internet questions

>
>I am posting this to the group becaus many of you have the same questions.
>Its a tad off topic but understanding how our list works will aid us in making
>better decisions about the future of our listgroup.
>
>SOme of it may be more "Techie" than you can cope with, but I beseach you to
> read this post anyway, because SOME of it will sink in.
>
There's so much misleading and downright incorrect information in the
posted article I don't have time to do a point-by-point rebuttal, but I
just can't let it go without alerting the people on this list who are
interested in gymnastics but have only a little computer background.
>
>I also recomend the book "Drugs Sex & UNIX" whis cronicles in far more detail
>the growth of UNIX, which in turn caused the creation of the INTERNET as we w
>
UNIX did not cause the creation of the Internet. That was due to an
ARPA project designed to allow large mainframe computers (the only kind
there were back then) to communicate with each other. Original
implementations required specialized mini- computers as front-ends to
the mainframes. Many of Berkeley's enhancements to UNIX, which came
later, did give UNIX good networking capabilities, however..

The Internet is actually the sending and receiving of data by means of a
particular method, namely the Transmission Control Protocol/Internet
Protocol. Any computer with that capability can connect to the network,
i.e., become part of the Internet. Good access is available by means
of normal telephone lines and lots of network lines other than fibre .
optic. Telephone connections are via SLIP (Serial Line Internet
Protocol) or PPP (Point to Point Protocol). The difference between
any of these connections is "just" speed.

The evolution of personal computers is the driving force behind the
explosive growth of the Internet and anyone who uses raw UNIX is light
years behind the times (relatively speaking!). Quite elegant access
programs are available for both Macintosh and Windows computers, for
example. Lots of books and articles about the Internet are available,
including the "Internet Starter Kit" by Engst, Low, and Simon.
Separate versions address the Mac and Windows, and sample programs are
packaged with the book.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Sep 1994 11:45:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: ***@netcom.com
Subject: Internet questions

I am posting this to the group becaus many of you have the same questions.
Its a tad off topic but understanding how our list works will aid us in making
better decisions about the future of our listgroup.

SOme of it may be more "Techie" than you can cope with, but I beseach you to read this post anyway, because SOME of it will sink in.

Patrick is the latest person to ask some questions (and GOOD ones I might add)
Here you all go to enjoy !

I also recomend the book "Drugs Sex & UNIX" whis cronicles in far more detail
the growth of UNIX, which in turn caused the creation of the INTERNET as we know
it.
>
> Hi Texx,
>
> If I am not confusing you with someone else, I believe you had mentioned
> working on the Usenet. If this is not you, please re-direct me. It
> may have been Chops or some other single-named person.

No Chops is the guy with the "Welcome to the internet, now go home" shirt.

> I know I could probably find this in a book, but I don't have any
> books on the subject handy, so I'd appreciate it if you could settle
> a bit of confusion for me. If you don't have time, that's cool.

Im looking for my next gig. The earthquake window opened 3 weeks ago and will
remain open until Dec, I am living ON the Hayward fault and am in the process
of digging a basement, I just hope the ground doesnt move while Im digging.
Im kinda busy but Ill answer you anyway.
Heck Im ALWAYS busy !

> My question(s):
>
> What is the hardware of a) the Internet b) Usenet and c) Bitnet.

I am not real big on IBM.
BITNET is mostly IBM mainframes.
Ill get more data on ity for you.

Im more of a UNIX kinda guy.
>
There is very little hardware of the INTERNET.
There are bridges, repeaters and routers connected to it but thats it.

> My understanding was that the Internet was an actual system of wires
> separate from the phone lines, but I have been told that it is
> actually more of a concept than an actual physical network and that
> it transmits data on phone lines.
>
> The real point of discussion was overhead of the Internet. I thought
> it was a system maintained by user fees or some such arrangement, but
> others at work think that AT&T is making tons of bucks on the long-distance
> lines that connect the computers. Can you (hopefully briefly) fill me in?

BRIEFLY ?
NO!

The real backbone of the INTERNET is the NSFNET (Natnl SCience Foundation)
and most of it is MCI fibre optic. NSF funded the backbone.

Now if you wanted a full blown INTERNET connection, you need a T-1 line from
your site to your local INTERNET provider. Locally here in the Bay Area it is
BARNET although CERFNET is invading from down south. BARNET is going to ding
you a bit for the connection to cover their costs. PAC BELL will ding you about
$3000/mo for the T-1 from your site to BARNET. Barnet kicks into the NSFNET a
bit as well as the NSF itself.

Now a comapny called Netcom has gone into the
business of selling accounts to weenies like me. Netcom maintains its own
bank of machines and has a connection to the BARNET.
Your account at Stanford comes in via BARNET to the NSFNET.

USENET, ah yes... The misunderstood part of the net.

In 1967 the Advanced Research Projects Administration "ARPA" started the ARPANET
whis was for hush hush skunkworks type of projects. Some colleges and defense
industry was on it. Around 1986 the secret stuff was moved to "MILNET" and the
public was allowed to join the old ARPANET to be renamed INTERNET. About this
time the net was moved to the new NSFNET backbone that rings the world.

Be patient here, you must understand the reason UNIX caused the internet to form

UNIX got loose in the real world outside of Bell Labs in 1973. It grew fast.
UNIX solved many problems in timeshared environments.
UNIX also allowed something called "mail".
UNIX is a wonderful OS because if you dont like something, you CAN change it !
And change it, the early users did.

Berkeley Connection:

UNIX came to my attention in 1975 when
it was installed on the DEC 11/70 in Cory Hall. There were shortcomings in
its assistance with the development of the INGRES database management system.
(Virtually ALL DBMS you use today grew out of the original INGRES project)
Berkeley hacked UNIX to include better networking.
One of my classmates Eric P Alman (neighbor kid down the block) wrote "sendmail"
which is the transfer mechanism used on most UNIX today.
Around 1980 the news came out. It started out for news at a given site to keep
users posted on happenings. Eventually the wanted to gp regionally so news grew
a bit larger. The gang at Univ Toronto and a buddy of mine Erik Fair finally
invented NNTP (Net News Transfer Protocol) The next thing we needed was a way
to move mail & news accross the US.

OK, were getting to the point finally !

Some sites were using the UUCP facility from UNIX to trade mail but there was no
centralized method to do this. The USENET was created. It was a dialup relay
system. You HAD to know the path you were sending your message.
For me to reach Anthony Stone, Engineer, KVUE TV 26, Austin TX I mailed to
invent!dual!ucbvax!ihnp4!ut-sally!kvue!stone
He replied to ut-sally!ucbvax!dual!invent!jimi!texx
ihnp4 was a machine in Illinois at Indian Hills @ Bell Labs.
Thjey were willing to call ANYONE for mail almost. They called ucbvax every 2
hrs. When you got on the USENET you had to agree to feed sites downstream from
you. How did you get on the usenet ? You caled any one of about a dozen of us
(myself included) and we would sort through a 2 foot printout to find someone
a local call from you to feed you. Later on domains cam into use.
DNS was later developed so that properly configured machines would recieve
mail with the user@domain format, so that the host the person uses would not be
included in the mail address. This way if you change workstations, the outside
world beed not tweak they mail addresses for you.
(Hey Robyn ! Been there ? Done that ?)
Fortunately we now only need the destination address and can ignore the path
it takes to get there.
I remember the days when I got calls in the middle of the night to consult my
"net maps to figure out a "bangpath" to get mail somewhere.

What happened to the USENET ?

Its still there. Now everyone can afford a fulltime t-1 connection or a dial up
"SLIP" @ $250/mo. Usenet always was and still is free. You depend on the
generosity of other sites. For instance OSSI in Emeryville was feeding 4
sites. OSSI had a T-1 but they allowed a few other companies to dialin and
get mail & news this way. The guest machines would login, download any
mail in their spool and then disconnect and then process the mail to their users
later. USENET is alive and well!

People call the news USENET but that is NOT TRUE !
News was responsible for the formal creation of the USENET but thats all.
Had it not been for News, then I dont think mail would have been enough to
create it.

In 1983 a days news was about 2 meg, it aproaches 300 meg today.
In 1983 a UNIX version 7 OS plus the INGRES database system still allowed a few
megs of user space before you would hit 20 meg !
Today a full UNIX install without INGRES is between 200-300 meg.

I can go into detail for those of you who wish it but I'd rather do that in
private mail. We really do need to get back on topic, but this sketch of the
history of the net shopuld be helpful.

.---. .---.
/ \ __ / \
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// / / /` '\ \ \ \\
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'//||\\`


UNIX !
LIVE FREE or DIE !


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-texx

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Sep 1994 10:34:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: ***@netcom.com
Subject: Libelous Gymn Talk

>
> To All:
> Folks, as a newspaper editor, I've been cringing at all the talk
> regarding Steve Nunno.
> Let me put this bluntly: he could sue you guys for libel, and he would
> win.
> You've got to understand that the Gymn list is considered a publication,
> and that means its writers -- you -- can be sued. If you want to talk about
> some coach being accused of something, raise the issue behind the accusation.
> For example, if you've heard of a coach being accused of picking on his
> student's weight, then say: I've heard rumors of a high-powered coach yelling
> at his students for losing a single pound. Hasn't the weight issue gone a bit
> far?"
> By talking this way, you are naming no one and are focusing on a concrete
> issue. But when you raise an issue publicly and say, "I heard so-and-so did
> this," you are libeling that person.
> If Steve Nunno were to read this and take you into court, the court would
> ask what evidence you have. With no evidence, you'd lose.
> It is true that in some states you have to prove malice to get money from
> a libel suit, but malice also is defined as a "reckless disregard." That
> means if you simply hear a rumor and then pass it on publicly with no proof,
> that's "reckless disregard."
> Anyhow, I thought I'd pass this on.
> You can pass on rumors that are harmless (such as, "I heard so-and-so is
> going to this gym), but rumors that have accusations in them simply can't be
> put on Gymn without risk of lawsuit.
> ---- Ronald Dupont, Jr in Gainesville, Fla.
>
>


Try adding that these are your opinions in front of what you say.
This then makes it an editorial and gets you around libel suits.
Course if Steve was dumb enough to sue, he might win but it would backfire in
his face. Its bad judgement for a coach to sue a gymn fan becauise they dont
like the coaching style. Steve could end up giving himself a black eye.

Actually "Cyber Law" out here on the net is kinda foggy.
Its actually a crap shoot whether or not Steve could collect from you out here.
One one hand Ron is right, this is a publication, but this is also a place of
public assembly like a soapbox out on the street corner.
Maybe Steve coyuld sue you or maybe not.
We wont know these things for a while yet, and with the present government in
place I would rather not have it decided now. We could end up with some pretty
stupid regulation on the net that would take FOREVER to get repealed.

Dont forget, this is the very same government that regulates in many states
whether or not it is legal for the woman to be on top !

.---. .---.
/ \ __ / \
/ / \( )/ \ \
////// ' \/ ` \\\\\\
//// / // : : \\ \ \\\\
// / / /` '\ \ \ \\
// //..\\ \\
====UU====UU====
'//||\\`


UNIX !
LIVE FREE or DIE !

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Sep 94 11:49:38 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Michelle Campi's Injury

>Michelle Campi fell off the uneven bars in a practice session and
suffered a spinal injury ... essentially breaking her neck.

I believe it was her back, not neck.

--Adriana

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Sep 1994 23:10:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: ***@delphi.com
Subject: no way



------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Sep 1994 13:10:52 -0500 (CDT)
From: ***@tenet.edu
Subject: Nunno

I can't take it any more. I have been following this thread on Steve and
Peggy for a while now and it really is getting a bit out of hand. All
the comments have come from second hand sources so I guess its my
obligation to give out a little first hand knowledge. First, yes I know
Steve and Peggy both, my daughter trained under Steve for about a year
and yes they are both hard and demanding coaches. Yes there are
weigh-ins, but weight police, PLEASE! I think not. Lets face it, weight is
an issue in gymnastics not only from the point that a fat gymnast looks
yucky but also that an overweight gymnast puts herself at risk for
injury. At the level in which Steve and Peggy are training these girls
this a very real issue. Yes there are girls who struggle with weight but
I myself have never seen Steve or Peggy ask more then that they
control their diet.<By control the diet I mean no eating junk foods and
watching fat intake. In MHO I think every gymnast fat or skinny
should eat this way> They need every drop of food for fuel
Yes Steve can be cruel and yes I've seen him go to far but one thing no
gymnast that has trained at Nunno's can say is that he doesn't care. He
and Peggy both give heart and soul. He is unselfish in the amount of
time and effort he gives and expects the same in return. No he doesn't
always seem fair but fair is in the eyes of the beholder. He will try
and get as much and sometimes more then a gymnast thinks they have to
give. But isn't that a coaches job? He and Peggy both are giving 100%
and they produced Shannon Miller. Lets ask her if it was worth the times
she got yelled at, the times she cryed. Unfortunately gymnastics is a
sport for little girls and these things seem tough <and Many times I
myself wondered how we allow ourselves as parents to let this go on>.
But in reality America wants winning gymnasts and to get winning gymnasts
they must be mentally and physically prepared. Nunno's trying to do this
the only way he knows how. The bottom line is that it is up to the
gymnasts' parents at Nunno's to decide how much is to much. I've seen
[parents at Nunno's and Desert Devils that made Nunno look like Mother
Theresa. So don't be so quick to jump on Nunno and Peggy. Those kids
know he wants them to do good, he wants them to make it. My daughter
took heat from him to but as she stood on the podium at Level 9 Nationals
with the Gold around her neck she thought it was worth it.
He believed in her and she trusted that he was right. So see, he is not
such a bad guy, just a guy who wants to produce winning gymnasts
Lets face it gymnastics is harsh, gymnastics tears up your body,
gymanstics eats up little girls childhoods. Why give all these things up?
Because they want to win, Nunno tries to give them that chance.

lynda

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Sep 94 22:57:12 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Nunno

This message isn't actually about Nunno, it's about this statement at the end
of Lynda's message (btw, I though the mesage was very good):

>gymanstics eats up little girls childhoods. Why give all these things up?
Because they want to win

Some gymnasts may feel that way. I personally feel that the other little
girls I knew were the ones who missed out (granted, the hours I spent at
gymnastics were not the hours that Shannon et al spend, but they were enough
to make my childhood not a "normal" one). I didn't lose my childhood; I got
a better one. I would never trade mine for my peers', and it wasn't a matter
of wanting to "win". There are plenty of things to win at in "normal" life.

To use a quote the origin of which I don't remember at the moment, "There is
no normal life. There's just life."

Adriana

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Sep 1994 22:57:33
From: ***@by-line.win.net
Subject: Nunno

Gee a Nunno fan, How much did he pay you to be his press agent????

I was a gymnast for 16 count them 16 years and never did I lose as
much wieght as Jenny Thompson has seemed to have lost since
March! The child now looks unhappy and sickly! That is not what
gymnastics is about! Yes it is a little girls sport and yes it is
tough, but it is not great enough to kill yourself or your child
for and fans and PARENTS need to remember this.

Nunno's camp is not a happy camp. I recently seen this at
Nashville. Shannon only smiled after it was all over. Was she
smiling because she knows now that she won't have to be in his camp
much longer??? Aren't they supposed to have fun?? Yes, I never
made it to the levels that these girls are at, but I HAD FUN and
the great thing is I am still alive to tell the story.

My daughter and son both are in Gymnastics. But if it ever got to
the point that their coach forced them to have weight ins, it
would be over for that coach, especially if it is Steve Nunno. Did
Bela's girls ever look that way, no! Have you ever compared
Dominque, the junior champion to Jenny? Try it and look at the
difference. Bela's girls or girls in his camp are healthy and
happy.......... Dominque fell in Nashville off the beam and still
smiled. Poor Jenny didn't smile the whole time she was there that
we saw!

Just one persons opinion.

Thanks for hearing me out,

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Sep 1994 22:43:21 -0500
From: ***@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu
Subject: September Calendar

###################################################################
# #
# ________ G y m n ________ \ | ___ #
# o __o |o |o (o #
# An electronic forum !__ \! ! ! \. #
# for gymnastics. ====== ====== ====== ====== ====== #
# #
###################################################################

The Gymn Calendar

Anyone that has any events to add to this calendar, please mail them
to me (efuchs@uxa.cso.uiuc.edu). All events on this calendar are
subject to change. -- Efton
---------------------------------------------------------------------

September 1994
S M Tu W Th F S
1 2 3
4 5 6 7 8 9 10
11 12 13 14 15 16 17
18 19 20 21 22 23 24
25 26 27 28 29 30

10-11 Golden Sands/ Varna, Bulgaria
20-24 Pan Am Gymnastics Cup/ Monterey, MEX
27-10/2 T.O.P. National Testing (W)/ TBA
30 Region V Mini-Congress/ Cincinatti, OH
-----

October 1994
S M Tu W Th F S
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15
16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23 24 25 26 27 28 29
30 31

2-16 Asian Games (M/W)/ Hiroshima, Japan
6-9 Rhythmic World Championships/ Paris, France
15-16 World Championship Team Trials (W)/ Richmond, VA
28-30 Gymnaestrada/ Palm Springs, CA
TBA Rhythmic International Invitation (R)/ TBA
-----

November 1994
S M Tu W Th F S
1 2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26
27 28 29 30

9-12 Olympic Congress of the USA/ Nashville, TN
15-20 World Championships (Team)/ Dortmund, Germany
25-27 Swiss Cup/ Zurich, Switzerland
30 Arthur Gander Memorial/ Chiasso, Switzerland
TBA Chunichi Cup (M/W)/ Nagoya City, Japan
TBA Catania (W)/ Catania, Italy
-----

December 1994
S M Tu W Th F S
1 2 3
4 5 6 7 8 9 10
11 12 13 14 15 16 17
18 19 20 21 22 23 24
25 26 27 28 29 30 31

1-4 T.O.P. Training Camp (W)/ Tulsa, OK
2-4 DTB Cup/ Stuttgart, Germany
3 Team World Championships/ TELEVISED ON NBC
10-11 Chunichi Cup/ Nagoya City, Japan
15-21 Pacific Alliance Championships/ Auckland, New Zealand
-----

February 1995
S M Tu W Th F S
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28

16-19 American Classic/ Pan Am Trials (W)/ Oakland, CA

-----

March 1995
S M Tu W Th F S
1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 31

11-26 Pan American Games/ Mar Del Plata & Buenos Aires, Argentina
25 NCAA Regionals (M)/ TBA
-----

April 1995
S M Tu W Th F S
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15
16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23 24 25 26 27 28 29
30

11-15 USAG Collegiate Championships/ Denton, TX
15 USAIGC National Inv. Tournament/ Cape Girardeau, MO
20-22 NCAA National Champs (W)/ Athens, GA
21-22 NCAA National Champs (M)/ TBA
-----

May 1995
S M Tu W Th F S
1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28 29 30 31

11-13 Boys' J.O. Nationals/ Oakland, CA
11-14 Junior J.O. Nationals (W)/ West Palm Beach, FL
18-21 Senior J.O. Nationals (W)/ Lincoln, NE
29-7/2 National Gym Fest/ ?
-----

July 1995
S M Tu W Th F S
1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15
16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23 24 25 26 27 28 29
30 31

1-9 Special Olympics Summer Games/ New Haven, CT
9-15 10th World Gymnaestrada/ Frankfurt, Germany
21-30 U.S. Olympic Festival (M/W/R)/ Boulder, Colorado Springs,
and Denver, CO
-----

August 1995
S M Tu W Th F S
1 2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9 10 11 12
13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20 21 22 23 24 25 26
27 28 29 30 31

10-13? Coca-Cola National Championships/ TBA (Championships
and Congress might be together in New Orleans)
12 Gymn's Third Anniversary
17-20 USA Gymnastics National Congress/ New Orleans, LA
24-9/8 World University Games (M/W/R)/ Fukuoka, Japan
-----

September 1995
S M Tu W Th F S
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30

19-24 Rhythmic World Championships/ Vienna, Austria
-----

October 1995
S M Tu W Th F S
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
8 9 10 11 12 13 14
15 16 17 18 19 20 21
22 23 24 25 26 27 28
29 30 31

1-10 Artistic World Championships/ Sabae, Japan
4-7 Olympic Congress of the USA/ Atlanta, GA
4-8 Rhythmic World Champs/ Vienna, Austria
-----

July 1996
19-8/4 Games of the XVIth Olympiad/ Atlanta, GA
-----

August 1996
12 Gymn's Fourth Anniversary
-----

Summer 1997
TBD World University Games, Sicily, ITA
-----

July 1998
25-8/9 Goodwill Games, New York, N.Y.
-----

Summer 1999
TBD World University Games, Palma de Mallorca, ESP
-----

September 2000
16-10/1 Games of the XXVIIth Olympiad, Sydney, AUS
-----

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Sep 1994 18:34:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: ***@tiger.hsc.edu
Subject: Steve, Peggy

Lynda, I just wanted to thank you for your heartfelt comments.
I think many of us forget exactly what it _does_ take to become
a gymnast at any level.

Gymnastics will make the weak stronger, the fearful courageous.
Let's not forget the sacrifices all of us (gymnasts, parents,
coaches) make in the process.

Is it worth it?

I will never forget what gymnastics has taught me, given me.
Torn ACL not withstanding, I'd do it again.

Julius

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Sep 1994 20:17:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: ***@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Subject: THE FACTS

Dear everyone,
I just want to say that I wrote a letter to Atl1996 apologizing for
offending her. I only wrote one post about Steve, and I never meant for it to
cause such a huge fuss, and I have to admit I'm a little surprised that it did.
None of it was "hearsay" or unfounded rumors. Atl1996 is correct that I did not
have written permission from Claudia to repeat what she said, but I don't THINK
she would have minded. When she told me what she did, it was by no means in
confidence - we were in a crowded restaurant and she was telling everyone at
the table: myself and four other people. From the tone of her voice and her
overall demeanor at the time, it did not appear that she considered this
top-secret information. If I read her wrong, I sincerely apologize to her. She
has told me many other things about Steve that I have not and will not post on
gymn, since they do seem to me to be more along the lines of confidential
information. If I made an error in judgment in my post, once again, I
apologize. I never dreamed this was going to turn into such a huge issue.
I also want to say that if Atl1996 has problems with what some of us have
said (and she certainly is entitled to her opinions), I feel it would have been
more appropriate to have written each of us individually, instead of attacking
us on the entire forum. Or, if she's going to attack on the entire forum, at
least use her name, not an alias. I do not mind someone disagreeing with me,
but I AM upset about being sarcastically and anonymously berated in front of
the entire forum. I don't know how David, Susan and Amanda feel, but I think
the Dynamo mom could have stated the facts, as she knows them, without having
been so harsh toward us. To me, her comments about us seemed more snide and
inflammatory than a lot of what has been said about Steve! If I say something
that upsets someone, I would rather have that person write to me personally
about it than post it on the entire forum. I don't recall my post about Steve
as being sarcastic, and the Dynamo mom's comments about me seemed a bit out of
proportion to my post.
Anyway, I apologize to anyone I might have offended, especially Claudia if
she is upset with me (and I believe she would tell me if she were.)

Beth

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Sep 94 18:52:26 EDT
From: ***@aluxpo.att.com
Subject: THE FACTS!

I think I enjoyed reading this letter better than any other
I have read on this forum.

Toby

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Sep 94 22:30:49 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: THE FACTS!

Let's clear a few thing up:
Some of your points are valid, but things need to be said:

1) You don't need permission to quote someone--you certainly don't need
_written_ permission. If you don't want to be quoted, don't say anything.
Anything said in public _is_ public. Anything said to _you_ is yours to
quote. Anything overheard was said too loud.

2) You shouldn't criticize people for criticizing people--unless you want to
be known as a hypocrite. So is writing "think before you write", and then
not doing so yourself.

Had you thought first, your well intentioned letter would have read:


<<<This is how ATL1996@delphi.com's letter SHOULD have read >>>

ELIZABETH A SQUIRES: I don't know if Shannon's mother would appreciate your
quote. Was it taken out of context? Have you talked with her since to help
verify the conclusion you came to?

CHINAHANDLE: Your idea of an investigative team seems extreme. It sounds
like a witch hunt to me. Relax. People--parents and athletes alike--say
many things which could be easily misconstrued or misinterpreted--especially
before and during competitions.

AMANDA TURNER: I am personally offended by your remark, which inferred that
my daughter was "suffering from f_ked up guidance and an eating disorder."
My daughter is an elite training at Dynamo's, and I know that other parents
and athletes would also be very offended. ". . . [A]nd don't tell me they
all don't have eating disorders . . ." is a very unfair characterization!
Please be more careful in your blanket (and blatent) characterizations and
accusations, none of which are founded in fact. You are insulting real
people, not just "cyberpeople", you realize.

SUSAN SOUTHALL: You are certainly intelligent and thoughtful. I am,
however, concerned about your criticism of the young gymnasts. They work so
hard, they deserve more credit than criticism--but all they're getting is
criticism. Let's all give our young gymnasts a break, and compliment their
accomplishments instead of criticising their shortcomings. Certainly they
have worked very hard for this type of respect.

<<< End sample of an APPROPRIATE response >>>

B.C.

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 Sep 1994 14:42:37 -0400 (EDT)
From: ***@delphi.com
Subject: THE FACTS!

First I would like to speak to a few people on this forum in response to
some of the posts I have been reading.....
ELIZABETH: You seem to be an authority on what Shannon's mother
has to say ....I am sure you wouldn't be quoting her unless you have
written permission,RIGHT? I am sure you told her on that day 2 years ago,you
said" claudia you won't mind if i quote everything you said to me today ,oh
lets say in about 2 years around 1994 ,on a public forum" ,RIGHT? Do you
always do that beth? Also you won't mind reprinting the note in which
shannons mom gave you the permission to quote her RIGHT?

CHINAHANDLE (sorry but I don't know your name):In response to the "lets get
an investigation team together"......You know I think to be really
fair.....we should send BETH to a Level 9 and level 10 Nationals and let her
sit next to some of the parents from every gym ....write down their remarks
while they are watching their children perform.......this way the
investigation team can start on east coast and work its way to the
west....and the witch hunt will include all the gyms that had kids at
nationals........I have sat throught gym meets for ten years and the things
you hear in the stands...from parents and relatives are incredable....I have
heard parents from the girl that came in last place blaming this and blaming
that.....who got more attention and only if this and only if that.....and
the parents from the one who came in first saying how tough and strict
there coaches are......and trying to prove that their kids are really
tough......All this means is nothing......these are parents....
...parents will say some emotional things at gym meets,thats because
gymnastic meets are (for a parent)like a roller coaster.....one rotation
they are doing great and the second rotation they catch their release with
their fingertips....leaving the parents gasping for air......and the third
rotation which was the event she or he has trouble with.....is solid....go
figure.....which leaves the then gasping parents saying "thank god"! I
really would hate for someone to be quoting me when I am watching my
daughter....as it is I have to dub out the sound of my vidio recorder!
Have you ever hung out in the hotel bar after the compulsories ,the night
before optionals......oh god that investigating committee who have their
hands full.......so many clubs and so little time......well enough said
about that.....Your not on the jury for OJ are you??????????????

AMANDA: My daughter is one of the ones you said is suffering from
f__ked up guidence , and an eating disorder..........seems like you left out
some very important information in your notes.......like what is your
full address where all of the parents here at dynamo's can send you their
replys to your attack on their children.....and what they think of you
publicly attacking their children........I will not speak for them but only
myself when I say that I can't believe someone who is barely 21 years old
has so much insight on my daughters eating habits and personality......like
you said "and don't anybody tell me they don't all have eating
disorders...."thats funny I don't ever remember you visiting us....You have
never been to my house.....never met my daughter ,spoke to her ,or watched
her train......I really want to meet you.......so would a LOT of
parents.....so when are you coming down to oklahoma AMANDA we really all
want to meet you. I am twice your age and what I have learned in my life is
to think BEFORE I speak,think about How you would feel if someone wrote
this about you or your lovedones,how can i still get my point across
and NOT hurt someone directly......I think ron from florida pointed this out
very nicely...
there are all kinds of ways to speak your mind without personaly attacting
individual people and children directly! There is nothing wrong with getting
emotional about the injustice and the politics,not to mention health
issues.....but please remember that their are real live people who read this
forum ,and you shouldn't write anything on here that you wouldn't say to
someones face......I would be glad to repeat this conversation face to face
with you anytime !

SUSAN:IG Hall Of Fame,NBC researcher.........you certainly sound
like someone who is intelligent and would THINK BEFORE she writes.. ...I
was at the banquet at usa championships.......If I were to write without
thinking this forum would get quite a report ...but what would that
accomplish.....tit for tat......how petty......I would suggest though that
before you analyze any other gymnast publicly you do it in such a way that
you don't directly hurt any of these children.....they work so hard to
accomplish their goals......some of them make it some don't but they all
work at it....they all want it ,they all dream about it at night .there are
all degrees of dedication.....and none should be criticized! The girl who
wants to compete in college to the girl who wants to compete in the
olympics,they are all dedicated, NONE should be singled out and
attacted.They should be respected ALL of them from the young to the
old..there are so many great people out there coaching......and there are
just as many stories to go along with all of them......but thats just what
they are stories......why can't you focus on great moments in
gymnastics....like why can't we hear a colume of coaches that touched the
lives of kids in a postive way instead of always looking for something
negitive.......there is so much violence ,drugs,death in the news....I hate
to watch it,it is so sad....I enjoy the forum ,well I used to ,When I see
names being used like that ,to verbaly attack a child.........would you say
that to her face susan?.....I would hope not ,so i will tell you the same
thing i told amanda......you need to think BEFORE you write....If you can't
say it to there face ,don't say it on here!.....

I am a parent of an elite gymnast who trains at dynamo gymnastics and would
to give some facts about training at dynamo.
1. I have never met two people who are so totaly dedicated to their gymnasts
2. All the elites go to school...Steve and peggy don't believe in
homeschooling......they believe that the children need outside interaction
with other kids...
3. Steve has one of the hardest conditioning programs going,he is always
updating and changing and trying new tech. etc....He is a firm believer in
solid muscle.....He also practices what he preaches......
4. all levels do the same conditioning ,there are no special groups!
5. all levels do the same stretching ,each gymnast is personaly stretched
with their respective coaches...
6. all levels do 1 and a half hours of conditioning and stretching BEFORE
workout starts........
7. the elites then have a 4 hour workout.....
8. steve and peggy have parent meetings to inform new team parent of the
importance of eating healthy for a healthy family not just a skinny child!
9. steve and peggy and all the coaches are very encouraging if they see you
trying.....there is a girl in one of the teams who has one arm and it is a
true reminder of what dedication really is.....I have seem steve stop when
he was coaching our girls to incourage her or other girls in other
levels....he and peggy both have radar eyes i think.....I have seen peggy
yell across the gym over to bars at a level 9 about something great she saw
her do......thats the thing....they really care....Not just about the
elite....and that is something that all the levels will tell you....
10. Peggy and Steve are some of the toughest coaches around....yes.....he
will ask you when you come....so what are your goals? Then from that point on
they will expect nothing less from you....There is no sadistic coaching,just
plain old hard work.
11. there is only one workout in the begining of school and then when it gets
closer to competition they add a morning workout...
morning workouts are conditioning and stretching only...
12. there are no losers here,Maybe some haven't achieved their goals
yet,but no losers!
13. when you drive up to the gym what the kids read everyday is written
across the entire front window and it says "WELCOME GYMNASTS YOU ARE THE
BEST".....
14. Rick newman is coaching at dynamo and a great asset to the gym
15. michele is in the gym doing as much of the conditioning as she can
until her back is healed up.....but is an inspiration to all the girls
to have someone like her who was an olympian and truely a artistic gymast
not giving up!
16.steve has on site physical trainers who work with all the team levels
17.He also has a weight room with lifecyles and free weights and opens them
up to the parents to use whenever.....

18. they have a parents viewing room which is open for any parents to
observe workouts.
19. they have a dance studio with ballet instructors and the team is
required to have dance.....


so these are some of the FACTS about dynamo .
hope these FACTS clear up any rumors you may have heard....
l
;
sincerly ,a dynamo mom!

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 Sep 94 19:02:27 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Trivia #21 Answers

Here are the answers for Trivia Quiz #21 - The Floor Exercise (M & W)

Again, my humble thanks for these excellent questions goes to:
#1-Clive
#2,3,4,5-Beth
#6-Amanda
#7-Brian
#8-Karen
#9,10,11,12,13,14-Debbie
#15,16,17,18-Adriana
#19,20-Karen & Adriana


1. Who made history this year by being the first British female gymnast ever
to qualify for the floor exercise final in a major competition. At what
meet?

Annika Reeder, European Championships

2. Who was the first gymnast to perform a triple back on floor in the
Olympics?

Vladimir Gogoladze (USSR, 1988) [Beth's comment: I'm thinking most people
will assume it was Lyukin, but he did it at 87 Euros]

3. Who was the first female gymnast to do a double back in the Olympics?
Which Olympics?

Nelli Kim, USSR; 1976 Olympics

4. Svetlana Boginskaya was known for her many creative floor routines. Which
one did she NEVER perform at a World Championships, Olympics or US-USSR meet
or exhibition? Where DID she perform this routine?

"Bolero" - 1990 International of France

5. At what competition did Nadia Comaneci take the floor gold with a perfect
20.00?

1979 World Cup

6. What move is named after Olga Mostepenova?

A full-twisting front handspring (when the full is done before hand
contact)

7. What woman gymnast threw the first double-double in Olympic competition?

Daniela Silivas

8. What is the deduction for stepping out of bounds?

0.10

9. What tumbling passes did Elena Davydova use to win the FX silver at the
'81 Worlds?

RO, 1.5 tucked arabian; RO, FF, 1.5 twist, punch front; RO, FF, double
twist.

10. What do the '60 Olympic FX champion and Japanese gymnast Yutaka Aihara
have in common?

The '60 Olympic FX champ (and '56 silver medalist), Nobuyuki Aihara, is
Yutaka's father. Yutaka finished 5th in the FX finals in Barcelona.

11. Which four gymnasts have been Olympic FX champions at least twice?

Larissa Latynina (URS): winner in '56, '60, and '64
Agnes Keleti (HUN): winner in '52 and '56
Nikolai Andrianov (URS): winner in '72 and '76
Nelli Kim (URS): winner in '76 and '80

12. What was unusual about the men's FX final at the '62 Worlds?

No Soviet gymnasts qualified.

13. Which 8 US gymnasts have won FX medals at the Worlds and/or Olympics?
How many total medals?

10 total medals
At the Worlds: Kurt Thomas in '78 and '79 (both times gold); Kathy
Johnson, bronze in '78; Kim Zmeskal in '91 (bronze) and '92 (gold); and
Shannon Miller in '93 (gold).
At the Olympics: Peter Kormann, bronze in '76; Julianne McNamara,
silver in '84; Mary Lou Retton, bronze in '84; and Shannon Miller,
bronze in '92.

14. On how many occasions has there been a tie for the FX gold at Worlds?

Eight.
1954: Valentin Muratov (URS) and Masao Takemoto (JPN)
1962: Nobuyuki Aihara (JPN) and Yukio Endo (JPN)
1978: Nelli Kim (URS) and Elena Mukhina (URS)
1979: Kurt Thomas (USA) and Roland Bruckner (GDR)
1981: Yuri Korolev (URS) and Li Yuejiu (CHN)
1987: Daniela Silivas (ROM) and Elena Shushunova (URS)
1989: Daniela Silivas (ROM) and Svetlana Boginskaya (URS)
1991: Oksana Chusovitina (URS) and Cristina Bontas (ROM)

15. What type of tumbling used with much success by Elena Shushunova has
been removed from the women's Code of Points?

"3/4" tumbling, in other words, tumbling in which the gymnast lands with her
hands first and rolls out. Shushunova performed a 1-3/4 side somi. Only the
dive roll and full-twisting dive roll remain in the Code.

16. Who was the first female gymnast to perform a full-twisting double
layout and when?

Tatiana Tugikova URS, Rotterdam Worlds, 1987

17. Which team once had a run of three 10.0's in a row on floor, who got
them, and when?

Romanian women (Camelia Voinea, Aurelia Dobre, Daniela Silivas), Rotterdam
Worlds, 1987

18. How many tumbling passes does the women's Code of Points require?

2

19. a. Does the code force women to have music?

Yes, lack of music is a 0.5 deduction

b. Does the code prohibit men from having music?

No

20. What is the penalty for a routine that is too short or too long
(time-wise)?

0.2 (off the final score)

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 Sep 94 15:51:15 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Trivia Questions #21-Floor Exercise

Here we go, gang!!! Trivia Quiz #21 - The Floor Exercise (M & W)

I've been inundated with *tons* of amazing questions, so I decided to make
this quiz a little longer than usual. Enjoy!!!

My humble thanks for these excellent questions goes to:
#1-Clive
#2,3,4,5-Beth
#6-Amanda
#7-Brian
#8-Karen
#9,10,11,12,13,14-Debbie
#15,16,17,18-Adriana
#19,20-Karen & Adriana


1. Who made history this year by being the first British female gymnast ever
to qualify for the floor exercise final in a major competition. At what
meet?

2. Who was the first gymnast to perform a triple back on floor in the
Olympics?

3. Who was the first female gymnast to do a double back in the Olympics?
Which Olympics?

4. Svetlana Boginskaya was known for her many creative floor routines. Which
one did she NEVER perform at a World Championships, Olympics or US-USSR meet
or exhibition? Where DID she perform this routine?

5. At what competition did Nadia Comaneci take the floor gold with a perfect
20.00?

6. What move is named after Olga Mostepenova?

7. What woman gymnast threw the first double-double in Olympic competition?

8. What is the deduction for stepping out of bounds?

9. What tumbling passes did Elena Davydova use to win the FX silver at the
'81 Worlds?

10. What do the '60 Olympic FX champion and Japanese gymnast Yutaka Aihara
have in common?

11. Which four gymnasts have been Olympic FX champions at least twice?

12. What was unusual about the men's FX final at the '62 Worlds?

13. Which 8 US gymnasts have won FX medals at the Worlds and/or Olympics?
How many total medals?

14. On how many occasions has there been a tie for the FX gold at Worlds?

15. What type of tumbling used with much success by Elena Shushunova has
been removed from the women's Code of Points?

16. Who was the first female gymnast to perform a full-twisting double
layout and when?

17. Which team once had a run of three 10.0's in a row on floor, who got
them, and when?

18. How many tumbling passes does the women's Code of Points require?

19. a. Does the code force women to have music?
b. Does the code prohibit men from having music?

20. What is the penalty for a routine that is too short or too long
(time-wise)?



Answers in a day or so!

Mara

------------------------------

End of gymn Digest
******************************