GYMN-L Digest - 12 Jun 1995 to 13 Jun 1995

There are 12 messages totalling 418 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. men's regional qualifiers (3)
  2. "little girls..." (2)
  3. Layout body position.
  4. Something Positive
  5. practice time, burn out, and pushing
  6. GYMN-L Digest - 11 Jun 1995 to 12 Jun 1995
  7. GBR v AUS (M/W)
  8. Contortionists' Web Page
  9. rewards & stereotypes


Date:    Mon, 12 Jun 1995 23:28:49 -0400
Subject: men's regional qualifiers

The men's regional qualifiers will be held the first weekend in august.
The locations will be:  Temple Univ. (Phila., PA), Ohio State Univ. (Columbus,
Oklahoma Univ. (Norman, OK), UCLA (Los Angeles, CA) and Stanford (Oakland, CA)

I have also heard that Scott Keswick is back in the gym - doing light training.
He is also going to try to come to USA's and perform a few routines, but
not actually compete.



Date:    Mon, 12 Jun 1995 21:28:10 -0700
Subject: "little girls..."

Julianne MacNamara was in middle school in 1980, so she was at most 18 in
the 1984 Olympics.


Date:    Mon, 12 Jun 1995 21:35:27 PDT
From:    ***@CISCO.COM
Subject: Re: Layout body position.

    Out of interest why is a layout (I think that's the gymnastic term)
    hollow, ie. hyper-extended, and not straight? In trampolining this
    hyper-extension is generally frowned upon ...

In gymnastics, layouts are supposed to be straight as well.  It can be a
little hard to crank around a double-layout type move from the height of
the upper uneven bar, or on floor.  (Some men manage...)  You'll notice
that the twisting single layouts tend to be much straighter.



Date:    Tue, 13 Jun 1995 02:23:13 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: "little girls..."

>Julianne MacNamara was in middle school in 1980, so she was at most 18 in
the 1984 Olympics.<

Don't know where this came from (did this get sent to the list by mistake, or
did I miss a message?), but anyway, I thought she was 19.  Which would make
her old enough for the '80 Olympic team (18 would make old enough too, but
only if she turned 19 sometime in '84).



Date:    Tue, 13 Jun 1995 02:20:34 -0400
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: men's regional qualifiers

>The men's regional qualifiers will be held the first weekend in august.  The
locations will be:  Temple Univ. (Phila., PA), Ohio State Univ. (Columbus,
OH) Oklahoma Univ. (Norman, OK), UCLA (Los Angeles, CA) and Stanford
(Oakland, CA)<

Stanford is in Palo Alto, CA.



Date:    Tue, 13 Jun 1995 09:47:01 -0400
Subject: Something Positive

Anne wrote:

>I lost track of the coach of the little boy with no legs.  I'd like to know
>how well he is doing in gym and if his coach found different techniques for

That would be me.

Well, I guess that I've been remiss in thanking everyone who offered
suggestions and support both through posts and private email.  It's been
great fun working with Vince the last couple of months, watching him attack
everything with determination and a great attitude.  We started him off in a
small class where one of us could always give him our full attention, but I
have found that he is quite capable of working on skills without constant
supervision.  Therefore, we just moved him into a larger beginner class where
he could be with other kids his own age (he's six for those people who missed
the original discussion).

Vince is making great strides in all aspects of gymn except vault.  This
seems to be a little frustrating for him (being the one thing he can't join
in with), and is the thing I am thinking the hardest about right now.  Other
than that one event he is doing great and (I hope) having fun.

Here are some thoughts that I have, developed both from observation as well
as responses to my original post:

- We use different body shapes to change both our moment of inertia as well
as our center of gravity.  There are many times that we choose a body shape
that moves the CG to the outside of the body.  The backward roll is a good
example where we move the CG to a point outside of the body and to the other
side of the center of rotation to complete the roll.  This happens
intuitively and most of us teach the roll without much thought to the
mechanics involved.  Without legs, Vince is not able to move his CG very far
from its natural center (which is much higher in the torso than most
gymnasts) and therefor has difficulty with skills that require this
technique, no matter how simple they may seem.  Understanding this has made
it easier to develop new techniques as we go along.

- I asked if anyone had suggestions about the tap swing, and I believe it was
Texx who commented that he might be able to generate enough power from
curvature of the spine to do a giant swing.  Allison suggested a weight belt
to help with the swing.  At this point, I think that Vince will be able to do
a giant swing (if he chooses to stick with gymnastics) without any prosthetic
assistance, but more advanced HB skills may require the weight belt (an
excellent idea I might add).  I guess I should qualify that last statement by
saying that he is already able to generate a tap swing to about 20 degrees
below horz. which, IMHO, is great for a beginner.

- An interesting discovery I made is that he is more comfortable in a planche
position than a handstand.  He is much more stable in the planche (makes
sense when you think about it) and has incredibly strong shoulders from
walking on his hands his whole life.  We've been working a good bit on
developing a better handstand.

- I think the thing he likes best about the gym is the abundance of padded
surfaces everywhere.  Getting around on your hands must take a toll on the
wrists, so the hour of running around on the mats is great fun for him.

All in all, I think that this has been a great experience for both of us and
I look forward to (hopefully) many years of coaching Vince.  If anyone has
any more suggestions or comments, I am always listening.



Date:    Tue, 13 Jun 1995 10:41:50 -0700
From:    ***@ENG.SUN.COM
Subject: practice time, burn out, and pushing


There seems to be some talk on the alias about amount of time
in the gymn and what is too much, etc.  I thought I'd post
what our gym does and what I've noticed regarding burn out.

C squad (level 1-4):    2 hours X 2 days plus 1 optional day
B squad (level 5):      2 hours X 3 days plus 1 optional day
A squad (level 5+):     3 hours X 5 days plus 1 optional day
        ( I believe that the A squad requires a score of
        31.00 or better on their level 5 routines but I'm not
        100% sure.)

My daughter is 10 years old. She started on the C squad last
January and is now moving up to the B squad.  The amount of
time in the gymn seems to fit her... she's progressing well
without burning out or getting tired of it. There are girls
on the both C and B that are younger than her (8).  Some
of them seem to be dropping out of the B squad. I think that
the time in the gymn is too much at that age or maybe they're
progressing too slowly or maybe they've been at it too long...
since age 5/6.  Frankly, physically maturity, mental maturity,
and attention span are key in progressing and in keeping
injury free... and those just comes with age.

My daughter is just now getting into it.  She wants to do
extra workouts this summer and she wants to do more ballet.
She KNOWS that ballet helps on the floor and on the beam
plus she now likes ballet for itself.  She doesn't talk much
about competitiveness, but I know that she wants to do well
'cuz she's asked for the extra classes in ballet and wants
to go to all of her optional workouts.

But I'm VERY careful NOT to push her because then one of two
things will happen:  (1) she'll dig in her heels, revolt, and
quit gymnastics completely and (2) she'll burn out, get sick of
gymnastics, and quit gymnastics completely.  Either way she
quits gymnastics.

I firmly believe that gymnastics is a wonderful building block
sport and is just plain fun.  It supports agility, flexibility,
strength, acrobatics, generousness towards competitors, team
solidarity, good work ethics, consistency, and a healthy
attitude towards perfectionism.

Now I do get competitive myself and want her to improve and
do more and do better and move up more quickly.  So in that,
her head may be straighter than mine.  But I keep telling
myself that if I want to get so competitive, I can channel
those desires into my career (take more classes) or into my
running (get more consistent with training).

I have to say that my father did the pushing part with
me with running when I was a kid.  Granted I will never
put down my own successes AND my kids DO brag to their
friends about my successes.  BUT I have to tell you that
at the age of 18, I found out that my father cared more
about my success in track and road racing than my own
emotional health. It was quite a shock.  (At the time, I was
in the hospital from being in a car/motorcycle accident.)
I'm SURE you don't want to hear the gorey details.

BUT I don't want my daughter to EVER think that I consider
her success at a sport more important than being a healthy,
happy, loved, and well-adjusted human being.

Of course, I'm also very happy that she is choosing to take
more classes and put more time in.  But last time I pushed
Rita in a sport (diving), (I thought it would be good for
her), it poisoned her for a year.  Just one lesson with a
diving coach who pushed too hard did it. She wouldn't dive
into the pool for fun for one year and even now I can't get
her to take lessons (two years later).

One thing that I've learned from my own experiences with
running and weight lifting and from watching the top level
athletes in track and in the marathon over the years;
there are no quick fixes.  The successful athlete is the
athlete that is consistent, keeps at it the longest, and
stays injury free the longest.

Anyway, who knows what she'll decide next year or the year
after that...  she has an older brother who has been one
of the top league baseball players since he was 9 years old.
This spring, at the age of 15, he dropped the sport cold and
switched to roller hockey...  there goes any remote
possibilities of partial athletic scholarships...
oh well, at least hockey burns more of his nervous energy
and keeps him out of trouble... at least when he's
practicing. ;-))

        Ruth, a mom in Mountain View, CA


Date:    Tue, 13 Jun 1995 15:06:21 -0400
Subject: Re: GYMN-L Digest - 11 Jun 1995 to 12 Jun 1995

 I just want to thank Sharai for her  thoughtful and thorough analysis
of "Little Girls In Pretty Boxes."  I agree with everything you said,
and have been wanting to say so, but haven't had the time.
Thanks, Sharai!  --


Date:    Tue, 13 Jun 1995 23:05:06 BST
From:    ***@IC.AC.UK
Subject: GBR v AUS (M/W)

Great Britain  vs  Australia

Bletchley, England.  10/11 June, 1995

This meet also doubled up as the "English Championships"
(well, for those competing who are English anyway!)


 1. Brett Hudson        (AUS)
 2. Paul Bowler         (GBR)
 3. Andrei Kravtsov     (AUS)
 4. Lee McDermott       (GBR)
 5. Brennon Dowrick     (AUS)
 6. Dominic Brindle     (GBR)
 7. Austin Woods        (GBR)
 8. Craig Heap          (GBR)
 9. Peter Hogan         (AUS)
10. Stephen Frew        (GBR)
11. Brendan Mand        (AUS)
12. Nathan Kingston     (AUS)
13. Pavel Mamine        (AUS)
14. Daniel Gregson      (AUS)
15. Shane Lyons         (GBR)   (only did compulsories)


 1. Australia           539.300
 2. Great Britain       539.000

- Marvin Campbell injured his archilles tendon a week before the
  meet thus he did not take part.


 1. Annika Reeder       (GBR)
 2. Zita Lusack         (GBR)
 3. Jenevieve Preston   (AUS)
 4. Joanna Hughes       (AUS)
 5. Sonia Lawrence      (GBR)
 6. Gemma Cuff          (GBR)
 7. Lisa Monro          (AUS)
 8. Gaby Fuchs          (GBR)
 9. Nicole Kantek       (AUS)
10. Clare Cribbs        (AUS)
11. Jenny Cox           (GBR)


 1. Great Britain       372.750
 2. Australia           366.375

- Ruth Moniz flew over with the squad but did not compete, may be due to
  an injury.

- Only the top five scores count (since Ruth Moniz was a late pull out)

- Karin Szymko was not there (maybe injury?).

- 4 out of 5 Austalian girls fell off the beam compared to Britain's only
  one (Sonia Lawrence).


with thanks to Sarah Baldwin at _Gym Stars_ for providing the results
and info.


Date:    Tue, 13 Jun 1995 20:41:04 -0400
From:    ***@PANIX.COM
Subject: Contortionists' Web Page

There is a "Contortionists and Flexibility Home Page" at:

with a lot of downloadable JPEGs.  There are also links to other related
pages, and Gymn's Page is one of the links. :)



Date:    Tue, 13 Jun 1995 17:48:20 -0700
From:    ***@NETCOM.COM
Subject: Re: men's regional qualifiers

> I have also heard that Scott Keswick is back in the gym - doing light
> He is also going to try to come to USA's and perform a few routines, but
> not actually compete.

        How bad was his accident?  Does anyone know anymore details about
it and his recovery?

Laura :)


Date:    Tue, 13 Jun 1995 18:49:41 -0700
From:    ***@HALCYON.COM
Subject: rewards & stereotypes

        Hello, all. Thanks so much for all the great responses i
received-i wound up using more than a few of them in my paper.
To be exact:
        How when people find out that you're a gymnast, their first
question is "Can you do the splits?" (or, alternately, a backflip). The
second question is "Can you show me?" Of course, this is always asked while
you're wearing jeans, standing on cement.
        When you won't demonstrate for them, they wil proceed to
demonstrate just what they mean to you. However, these crazy people never
seem to get hurt.
        How everyone thinks you're going to the olympics.
        They expect you to be able to do what's on tv.
        Regardless of how much gymnastics exposure anyone has had, aske
them and they will tell you that the beam is four inches wide.
        Discipline & how it applies to "real life". Quite an advantage,
if you ask me.
        Learning how to make yourself do things. Also, learning the
courage to "go for" something.
        Time management. especially if you work out often.
        Learning how to focus & concentrate.
        Learning the fundamentals of cause & effect relationships-i.e. if
i do my conditioning, i will get stronger and it will make my gymnastics
easier/better. Unfortunately, some of us do not learn this exact
relationship. :)

That's about it. And, as the preliminary work from the teacher has it, i
got an "A". So thanks a lot, everyone! I'm going to be off this list for
the summer, as i will be working away from home and my computer. I've
really enjoyed gymn for the short time i've been on it, so i hope to
re join in the fall. Thanks again, and Solong!



End of GYMN-L Digest - 12 Jun 1995 to 13 Jun 1995