GYMN-L Digest - 9 Mar 1995 to 10 Mar 1995

There are 18 messages totalling 710 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Pan Am: men's prelims (2)
  2. Sports Illustrated (2)
  3. SI jynx
  4. Pan Am: Quotes
  5. Jamie Hill out of Pan Ams
  6. gymnast defense (2)
  7. Pan Am Compulsories Question
  8. Olympic Ticket Info
  9. MY (attempt at an) INTRO
 10. Questions on Keeping Booster Club NCAA-legal
 11. Pan Am games coverage in the NY Times
 12. I hate subject lines
 13. Juicy Gossip
 14. Pan Am: Women's Prelims
 15. Pan Am: Quotes and Notes


Date:    Thu, 9 Mar 1995 21:22:48 -0700
From:    ***@RMII.COM
Subject: Pan Am: men's prelims

Results from AP (I think, maybe it was UPI...):

Pan Am Games
Mar Del Plata, Argentina
Mar 9, 1995 -- Men's prelims

1, Cuba, 276.625 points
2, United States, 275.700
3, Canada, 273.600
4, Argentina, 261.400
5, Mexico, 260.550
6, Peru, 254.200
7, Brazil, 250.450.

1, Erick Lopez, Cuba, 56.500
2, John Roethlisberger, U.S., 56.300
3, Mihai Bagiu, U.S., 55.000
4, Chris Waller, 54.900
5 (tie), Kristan Burley, Canada, and Lazaro Lamelas, Cuba, 54.550
7, Peter Manifred Schmidt, Canada, 54.450
8 (tie), Bill Roth, U.S., and Steve McCain, U.S., 54.400
10, Damian Merino, Cuba, 54.075
11, Lawrence Travis Romagnoli, Canada, 53700
12, Victor Colon Ortiz, Peru, 53.600
13, Francisco Lopez, Mexico, 53.050
14, Felix Aguilera, 52.900
15, Chainey Umphrey, U.S., 52.550
16, Alan Nolet, Canada, 52.300
17 (tie), Isidro Ibarrondo, Argentina, and Diego Lizardo, Peru, 52.250
19, Jose Bolano, Mexico, 52.200
20, Gabriel Chevere, Peru, 52.100
21, Andres Sanchez, Mexico,52.050
22, Sebastian Alvarez, Argentina, 51.800
23, Marcelo Palacio, Argentina, 51.350
24, Eduardo Haro, Mexico, 50.350
25, Gustavo Piso, Argentina, 50.100
26, Marco Monteiro, Bazil, 48.950
27, Fabricio Olsson, Bazil, 48.900
28 (tie), Jose Mario Marzagao, Brazil, and Milciades Santiago, Dominican
 Republic, 48.600
30, Alexander Rangel Pineda, Columbia, 48.200
31, Manuel Bejarno, Venezuela, 47.450
32, Gilberto Figueira, Brazil, 46.850
33, Carlos Latorre, Peru, 46.600
34, Leonardo Gonzalez, Columbia, 46.400
35 (tie), Eric Saavedra, Chile, and Enrique Trabanino, El Salvador, 45.950
37, Victor Solorzano, Venezuela, 44.250
38, Juan Carlos Colon Robles, Peru, 44.200
39, Sean Grosvenor, Barbados, 3.050

Jason Papp, Canada, 45.900
Abel Driggs, Cuba, 45.750
Adriano Engelke, Brazil, 42.750
Fernando Menghi, Argentina, 42.450


Date:    Thu, 9 Mar 1995 23:43:59 -0500
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Sports Illustrated

>Miracle of miracles, this week's _Sports Illustrated_ (Andre Agassi is on
the cover) has a story about Shannon Miller's approaching old age and the
recent American Cup.

You notice that whenever SI covers gym, it's with a negative angle...



Date:    Thu, 9 Mar 1995 23:45:34 -0500
From:    ***@TIGER.HSC.EDU
Subject: SI jynx

But then every time SI has done a positive story, that gymnast has fallen
to the wayside....
Or is this just a gym rumor?



Date:    Thu, 9 Mar 1995 21:51:45 -0700
From:    ***@RMII.COM
Subject: Pan Am: Quotes

Pan Am notes, compiled from various newswires (AP, UPI, Reuters):

-- Chainey Umphrey and Steve McCain didn't complete required elements
on compulsory high bar and received 7.45 and 7.85 respectively.

-- Canadian Jamie Hill cracked a bone in her left ankle and will not
be able to compete in the Pan-American Games. Per Lisa Simard (women's
team coach): "It's not serious but enough to keep her out of the
competition. She twisted her ankle when she landed badly during
practice on Wednesday."

-- Gymnasts have faced more than the usual difficulties polishing
their routines for the Pan Am Games, because of what Coach Steve Nunno
described as "monsoon rain," which flooded the practice facility and
created leaks in the ceiling, soaking the equipment. "We brought all
the private coaches of the athletes, so we all got together and moved
the equipment to dry areas," Nunno said. "It made for good training

Other quotes:

John Roethlisberger: "As a team, we shouldn't be happy with what we
did. We had too many misses and you can't have that many misses in
compulsories. We'd better come out and figure things out for
optionals, or it'll be a long trip home."

Steve Nunno, re US women: "This is the best team the U.S. has ever
sent to the Pan Am Games. We believe that there is no question about
it: Our quest to win the team gold medal will come true. At this time,
we have the strongest contingent. There are many other strong
individuals in this competition, but we believe our goal to win the
team gold medal comes first. Secondly, we want to win as many
individuals medals as possible. We are not concentrating on breaking a
record for medals, but it very well could happen."

"Our depth is one of our strengths. Losing any medals will come from
our mistakes."

Kristy Powell: "I feel good and I feel confident, but a little tired.
I'm looking forward to this competition. We have a good team, and it
all depends on who hits their routines."

Miller, re American Cup: "I was kind of disappointed to not be in the
final round. But I think it gave me some time to rest my body and to
get ready for this competition."

Miller, re her 'old age': "I'm not even the oldest gymnast here. I
don't think age should have anything to do with it. It should have
more to do with how well you perform. If I raise my difficulty (level)
this year, I can use next year to polish my routines. Every
competition is important to me, for getting my routines together."



Date:    Fri, 10 Mar 1995 00:08:20 -0500
Subject: Re: Pan Am: men's prelims

Correction in the results: wherever you see "Peru", substitute "Puerto Rico".

> 14, Felix Aguilera, 52.900

WHAT?!?!  Is this right?  Felix had retired after Central
American-Caribbean Games in Nov. '93 (there was a little ceremony and
everything).  They must really be getting desperate after the defections...

> 16, Alan Nolet, Canada, 52.300
> 21, Andres Sanchez, Mexico,52.050
> 26, Marco Monteiro, Bazil, 48.950
> 31, Manuel Bejarno, Venezuela, 47.450

And besides Felix, the old men were really out in force...



Date:    Fri, 10 Mar 1995 00:20:37 -0500
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Jamie Hill out of Pan Ams

A note on Pan Ams from Reuters [snippets only <g>]

Canadian Jamie Hill cracked a bone in her left ankle and will not be able to
compete in the Pan-American Games, women's gymnastics team coach Lise Simard
said on Thursday.

    ``It's not serious but enough to keep her out of the competition,''
Simard said. ``She twisted her ankle when she landed badly during practice

     With Lena Dejteva also not fully fit after a recent injury, the loss of
Hill seriously hampers the Canadians' medal chances.



Date:    Fri, 10 Mar 1995 00:21:59 -0500
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: gymnast defense

All of the commentary in defense of the helpless young lads and lasses who
participate in gymnastics is understood and appreciated for the sentiment in
which it is offered.

But when I see behavior akin to that of Mr. Scott Keswick's televised
comments from Dortmund last year, I would suggest that there is a time and a
place when the flamethrowers should be loosed "with extreme prejudice." In
other words, sometimes, the gymnasts EARN it, and it is in the best interest
of the sport to deliver the razzberries at the loudest volume possible.

As to all other occasions, I take the side of Alice Roosevelt Longworth, who
was known to have said "if you can't say anything nice about somebody....come
sit by me!"  If you have any scathing commentary, please feel free to email
it to me for my personal, politically incorrect enjoyment. ;-)    <-- Evil

Perhaps Gene and Ann Marie should see a copy of the Mogilny?

;-)      <--- Satanic Wink.

Take care, all.



Date:    Fri, 10 Mar 1995 00:49:34 -0500
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Pan Am Compulsories Question

At Santiago '91, they used watered-down compulsories.  Are they doing that
here also?



Date:    Fri, 10 Mar 1995 05:40:50 -0700
From:    ***@RMII.COM
Subject: Olympic Ticket Info

This is reposted from for those of you who do not
have Usenet access:

Subject: 1996 Atlanta Ticket and Lodging information from USOC Ticket office
Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 23:42:08 LOCAL
Organization: USA Volleyball National Office

With the USOC still not on the Internet, I am taking
the time to post this information recently received at
USA Volleyball National offices, as part of the help in
"keeping others informed."

From Warren Shanahan - USOC Ticket Office

We ticketing professionals believe that our obligation
to the ticket-buying public is to "ensure consistent
and accurate information concerning events" and also
"endeavor to ensure the proper advertising for show
information", etc.  The ever-increasing number of calls
and written inquiries coming into the USOC Ticket
Office every day has confirmed our need for a vehicle
we can use to keep everyone informed concerning
tickets to various upcoming events -- hence, this
newsletter (Posted here by USA Volleyball).  Each
month, we'll use it to update you with all the latest
info we have.  You can help us achieve our mission by
keeping others informed.  This way, everybody wins!

Along those lines ... we have established a 24-hour
telephone message line to keep callers updated on a
variety of topics. It seems everyone wants to know
about Atlanta: how to get tickets, accommodations, etc.
Many of their questions can be answered by listening to
the automated message and making the appropriate
selection.  The number to call is 719/578-4930. You can
help us by giving this number to people you come in
contact with who want information about almost anything
related to tickets for  USOC events'.  If their
specific questions are not answered automatically,
callers can stay on the line to speak with someone in
the office.

Also, please use this number to call us with your
valuable comments, suggestions and information.  We
want to hear from you.

Atlanta Update

With tickets going on sale to the general public May 1.
everyone wants to know...

The Games of the XXVIth, Olympiad will be held front
July 19 to August 4, 1996 in Atlanta, GA.  ACOG
plans to begin selling tickets on May 1, 1995 through
mail order only.

Ticket brochures containing information on each sport,
a complete schedule of events and a simple, easy-to-use
mail order form will be distributed throughout the
United States.  Announcements will be made to let
Americans know where they will be available locally
when plans become definite.  (Note from USAV -
McDonalds, Coke and other major Olympic Sponsors are
reported to be a major part of the ticket brochure
distribution plan we have been told).

Tickets will obviously be in great demand, so it's wise
to mail early!  To increase the chance of getting the
tickets wanted most, requests should be postmarked no
later than June 30, 1995.  ACOG will enter requests
into the FairTix system (a unique ticket-processing
system developed exclusively for the 1996 Centennial
Olympic Games) in the order in which they are received.
At that time, if there are more requests for a session
than available tickets, that session will automatically
be labeled as "over-subscribed".  FairTix will
immediately assign tickets for non oversubscribed
sessions, and will then randomly select the requests to
be filled for over-subscribed sessions.  In order to be
considered for the FairTix random selection process
full payment -- must be received postmarked no later
than June 30, 1995!

To those who requested tickets through our USOC Family,
NGB or Alumni offering ... As of this writing, we have
not yet received our initial allocation from Atlanta.
When we do, this information will be entered into our
computerized ticketing system, and you will receive a
confirmation letter regarding your request.  You should
have this information well before May 1, but remember
that twenty of the events expected to fall into the
oversubscribed category were not available through that
offering.  To request tickets for those events, you
will need to follow the procedures outlined in the ACOG
mail order brochure available for pick up May 1


Equally in demand is information on housing in Atlanta
during the Games.  ACOG has established the Host Hotel
Network to ensure fair pricing.  Details on how to make
reservations will be announced later in 1995.  To have
information sent to you from ACOG, call: 404/744-1996

For information on private housing accommodations

Private Housing, Inc.
PO Box 467699
Atlanta, GA 31146
(404) 455-0081

The Olympic Arts Festival will feature something for
everyone -- hundreds of free and ticketed concerts,
exhibitions and performances, all scheduled to
complement the sports competitions of the  96 Games.
Most of the events will be located within the Olympic
Ring to allow Festival ticket-holders to enjoy the
convenience of the Olympic Transportation
System.  Watch for details.

As a staff member of USA Volleyball, I hope this
information, and that about volunteering for the games
already posted to Rec.Sport.Volleyball and
Rec.Sport.Olympics, and on the Volleyball World Wide
Web, helps each of you wanting to attend the great
sport of Volleyball and Beach Volleyball, as well as
all the others of the Olympic Family.  Please contact
the USOC Ticket office at the phone line listed above,
or by mail at the address in my sig file, but without
the USAV first line, if you have any questions.

John Kessel
USA Volleyball Director of Programs
FIVB Technical Commission Secretary
1 Olympic Plaza, Colorado Spgs, CO 80909
FAX (719) 597-6307 / ((719) 637-8300W


Date:    Fri, 10 Mar 1995 08:23:00 -0600
Subject: MY (attempt at an) INTRO

Hi everyone,

Here goes...

I'm Dory ... a guy from Canada.  I'm new to PCs, new to the internet,
and most obviously new to Gymn.  I've been a gymnastics fan(atic) for about
13 or so years.  I did gymnastics myself at a recreational level for about
10 years (including back-yard gym!) learning little more than basic tumbling.

I stay very involved with the sport as a fan, photographer, penpal, video
collector, and overall gym-freak.  Some of my photos have been in *IG*
over the past few years ... I try to get to several major Canadian meets
every year (int'l would be nice, but...$$$$).

I'll try to keep everyone up to date on what's going on in Canada.  (I
haven't seen much Canadian stuff in the back issues.)  If you have any
questions, let me know and I'll try to help.

Drop me a note and say hi sometime.



Date:    Fri, 10 Mar 1995 13:36:25 -0500
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: gymnast defense

>Had the televised comment been shown in
>itsENTIRETY  well, I don't think many people on gymn would have been upset,
>since it was entirely directed to the coaches and NOT the girls.  He was
>very upset, as were the other guys and female gymnast that the coaches had
>multiple slots (due to their standing) to train and they chose the one that
>conflicted with the men's competition.

I had no intention about rehashing the entire Keswick thing again. All
personal feelings, for or against, aside, the facts in Mr. Keswick's case are

1. He was upset with something the U.S. coaches did.
2. He chose to take the entire issue to the media in his interview, rather
than simply gloss it over.
3. He chose a public forum rather than an intramural one.
4. As a result, his actions and his words cast American gymnastics and
gymnasts in a highly negative light in front of the world.
5. The wrong was in the method, NOT the message, so who he was upset with is
not the issue.

Ergo sum, IMHO, a personal criticism of the man was justified.

You may argue with that. This is your right, and THIS, GYMN, is certainly the
forum to do so. My whole point (the forest has been lost for the trees,
again) is that we shouldn't shy away from criticizing gymnasts if, in our
opinion, they genuinely did something wrong, as long as such criticism is
within the guidelines of the forum. We can then debate it, as Mayland and I
have just done. But to return to the origin of this thread--to put a
moratorium on criticizing gymnasts because they are young, their feelings may
get hurt, and we can't do what they do is to sink to the level of becoming
the Barneys of gymnastics, and I say that's dead wrong.

Disagree? Email me.



Date:    Fri, 10 Mar 1995 14:44:01 -0500
From:    ***@CAPACCESS.ORG
Subject: Re: Sports Illustrated

I did once see and article in SI junior about Dominique Moceanu
and Jenny Thompson that wasn't bad.



Date:    Fri, 10 Mar 1995 14:21:20 -0700
From:    ***@CSN.ORG
Subject: Questions on Keeping Booster Club NCAA-legal


I'm new to this mailing list but need some advice before I have a chance to
lurk for a couple of months.

I'm the secretary of the Berthoud Gymnastics Parents Group in Colorado.  We
have a couple of good Level 10 gymnasts and some very promising Level 8s.
Because things are getting more expensive, traveling to meets, clinics, etc.
 we need to start doing some fundraising as a booster club.

I called USGF & they said that basically anything goes.  However, they also
said that we should check with NCAA since our 10s are potentially going to
want to qualify for scholarships.

This is where it gets tricky.  NCAA told me that the rules are so
complicated that I need to talk with NCAA compliance officers at colleges to
get the guidelines on what's appropriate.  I have called every college in my
state (Colorado) & can't get the compliance officers to get back to me.
Meanwhile, we have state & regional competitions coming up with some
potentially huge bills for the parents of the kids who qualify.  The other
parents & kids are ready to start raising funds to help so we need to know
what has to be done to keep these kids eligible.  (I understand that getting
them requalified can get ugly.  We'd rather do things right from the start.)

Can someone, or several someones on this list, offer me advice that you know
is accurate?  All I know now is that we either need to base funding help on
need or to distribute it evenly.  But I don't know what that means.  Can we
distribute funding evenly to all of the kids in a particular level or do we
have to fund our Level 10s equally with our Level 5s?  What would cover the
yearly meet fees (including coaching expenses) for every Level 5 would only
make a dent in one out-of-state meet for our Level 10s.  While we don't
expect every one of our kids to get a scholarship, we'd sure hate to mess
things up if one of them did get an offer.

Thanks in advance,



Date:    Fri, 10 Mar 1995 18:58:32 EST
From:    ***@BBN.COM
Subject: Pan Am games coverage in the NY Times

The coverage is in today's (Friday 3/10) NY Times.

Actually, the coverage is of the fact that money troubles are
causing countries to decrease their participation, and that
the U.S.'s participation may be even less next year.
For example, the U.S. this year has sent "Olympic-caliber"
teams in sports such as gymnastics, boxing, and cycling,
but the men's basketball team was hampered by the
fact that it's getting to NCAA playoff time.

As a tag/pointer to the article about the PanAm games,
the cover of the Times' Metro/Sports section features a picture
of a very focussed John Roethlisberger in vault preflight.
(It's interesting in that it's a head-on shot [as if you
were standing on the opposite side of the horse, waiting
for him to either vault over or into you!].)



Date:    Fri, 10 Mar 1995 17:34:00 PST
From:    ***@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU
Subject: I hate subject lines

If you don't have anything nice to say..

  ..shout it from the highest mountaintop.


Date:    Fri, 10 Mar 1995 22:11:01 -0500
From:    ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Juicy Gossip

>> This is as of yet unsubstantiated, but I heard through my grapevine
> that the REAL reason Stobvtchataia did not compete in the olympics
> is that she refused to continue as an artist until Lyssenko
>> put on a hairnet.

>I knew it.  See, Lyssenko again.  Lyssenko, Lyssenko, Lyssenko!
>She always barges in.  Remember Abrashitova?  Hmph.

Lyudmila is just soooooooo jealous of Tanya!


Date:    Fri, 10 Mar 1995 20:19:12 -0700
From:    ***@RMII.COM
Subject: Pan Am: Women's Prelims

This is from UPI newswires:

Pan American Games
Mar del Plata, Argentina
March 10, 1995

Women's Preliminaries

Team Competition

1, United States, 193.475 points
2, Argentina, 183.275
3, Canada 183.100
4, Cuba, 182.775
5, Brazil, 176.700
6, Bolivia, 134.800

Individual standings
1, Shannon Miller, U.S., 39.375
2, Amanda Borden, U.S., 38.925
3, Katie Teft, U.S., 38.525
4, Amy Chow, U.S., 38.325
5, Annia Portuondo, Cuba, 37.900
6, Kristy Powell, U.S., 37.275
7, Soraya Carvalho, Brazil, 37.125
8, Leyanet Gonzalez, Cuba, 36.875
9, Marleen Lavoie, Canada, 36.850
10, Aldana Simone, Argentina, 36.800
11, Shanyn MacEachern, Canada, 36.750
12, Ana Destefano, Argentina, 36.725
13, Jennifer Exaltacion, Canada, 36.750
14, Romina Plataroti, 36.525
15, Romina Mazzoni, Argentina, 36.375
16 (tie), Laura Alvarez, Argentina, and Theresa Wolf, Canada, 36.275
18, Lidia Hidalgo, Cuba, 35.900
19, Eileen Diaz, Peru, 35.850
20, Natalie Barrington, Canada, 35.350
21, Yureisy Bermudez, Cuba, 35.300
22, Mariana Goncalvez, Brazil, 35.250
23, Yaritza Yulian, Peru, 34.650
24, Adriana Silami, Brazil, 34.200
25, Keli Tiemi Kitaura, Brazil, 34.050
26, Rocio Salazar, Guatemala, 33.500
27, Graziella Emy Guerra, Brazil, 33.475
28, Veronica Maturana, Bolivia, 33.075
29, Jimena Murtado, Bolivia, 28.875
30, Vera Maturana, Bolivia, 28.650
31, Lena Degteva, Canada, 26.975
32, Maria Ines Mendez, Bolivia, 24.175
33, Maria Andrea Velazquez, Bolivia, 20.025
34, Olivia Bogarin, Paraguay, 13.700
35, Patricia Ramos, Paraguay, 8.200


Date:    Fri, 10 Mar 1995 20:44:44 -0700
From:    ***@RMII.COM
Subject: Pan Am: Quotes and Notes

Pan Am Quotes and Notes ... from UPI and Reuters

-- Miller scored 9.9 on floor, 9.85 on beam, and her lowest score of
the night was 9.825.  She received a standing ovation from a full
house after her floor.  Her outstanding performance comes on her 18th
birthday.  Romina Plataroti, ARG, is one day older than Miller, and
was serenaded by the crowd in the morning session.

-- Asked how she would celebrate her birthday, Miller replied: "I just

Alex Bard, Canadian coach, re his team's performance: "They pulled
together tremendously and worked as a team to get over a spate of bad
luck." [Jamie Hill is out with an ankle injury and three of the six
remaining competitors had their ankles bandaged.]  "It's a very young
team. Only three had international experience before. We're preparing
for the world championships and then we'll see what gap we have left
(to close) for the Olympics."

-- Steve Nunno had picked Argentina for a medal.

Steve Nunno: "This is the best we've brought to the Pan Ams. We went
in rank order, with one exception, so this is the best we could send.
They did a great job.  We've never had this kind of depth before. As
the U.S. team has gotten better and better, many coaches have gotten
to work. We've got a good mix of many girls from across the country."

Amanda Borden: "We really pay a lot of attention to compulsories. In
our national competition, compulsories count for 60 percent of our
final scores. That has made us really focus on compulsories."

Nunno, re Miller's 'bounce back': "If she has one bad meet, people
tend to write her off. But she's missed before and come back. There's
no better gymnast in compulsories, and she proved that tonight."

Miller: "I think any confidence I did lose, I gained back here. But
I've still got three hard competitions left (team finals, the all-
around and event finals). I've got to work hard."

US Men...

Chainey Umphrey: "We have a higher degree of difficulty, but if you
miss your routine, it can take out a lot of steam." ; "I don't know
how many more points (the U.S. has in degree of difficulty), but
sometimes that's not quite enough. We need to hit our routines. But
I'm sure that's what (the Cuban coaches are) telling their guys. The
team that wins is the one that hits their routines."

Bill Roth: "What's done is done. We can't change that. We've already
put that out of our minds and we'll go on to tomorrow. We have to do
our routines and get through them unscathed. It comes down to who can
stay on the apparatus."

-- The U.S. men held a team meeting before workouts Friday, talking
about the importance of staying focused and reducing mental
errors. Chris Waller: "If we do as we discussed, we have a good
chance. What we need to do is focus and come out doing what we know we
can do."

-- Mihai Bagiu said somebody on the U.S. staff will keep and eye on
the Cubans' scores and monitor their progress, but the gymnasts
themselves weren't likely to do any scoreboard-watching. "They don't
tell us. It's better for us to just concentrate on our routines and
see the scores at the end."



End of GYMN-L Digest - 9 Mar 1995 to 10 Mar 1995