GYMN-L Digest - 8 Mar 1995 to 9 Mar 1995

There are 20 messages totalling 537 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

1. AC Prelims and Misc Stuff (was Re: American Cup notes)
2. Am Cup foreign women competitors (2)
3. double posts/ not subscribed
4. Countries of Gymn
5. UF-LSU Women's Collegiate Meet
6. UF-Penn State Women's Collegiate Meet (2)
7. Need Trivia Questions - Beam & Pommel Horse
8. more Am Cup (2)
9. Pan Am Games gymnastics schedule
10. how to contact me regarding gymn-l stuff
11. SELF INTRODUCTION
12. College question, etc.
13. Juicy Gossip (2)
14. Sports Illustrated
15. Pan Am Games gymnastics s
16. intro

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Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 23:18:30 -0500
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: AC Prelims and Misc Stuff (was Re: American Cup notes)

>She had a stress fracture to her third metatarsal on her left foot. She was
in Seattle on Wednesday morning to receive her award from McDonalds and
seemed in high spirits until Billy Roth started telling her he'd the same
injury (4th metatarsel) and how much it had hurt him getting back into
>training. Then again, what injury hasn't Bill had? :-)

Obviously, he's had at least one bout with 'foot in the mouth' disease...

Mara

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Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 23:21:32 -0500
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Am Cup foreign women competitors

One quick thought on the list of foreign competitors at AmCup on the womens
side. While I agree with most of what's been said regarding judging bias
[intentional or otherwise] at AmCup as a reason for the weak field, one point
hasn't been noticed.

Historically, the top invitational [at least on the women's side] have been
held in countries without strong/high ranked teams of their own!

Example: Chunichi, DTB, French Intl., Champions All

Did we ever see the top Sovs compete at the Romanian International or the
China Cup? What about Romanians and East German girls at Moscow News? Nope.


The US girls gaining in ranking [essentially 1988 on] corresponds fairly
directly to the lessening of top international competitors appearing in the
women's field at American Cup.

A final happy thought:

>Of course all the US leos were bad, GymKin designers
must moonlight for USA Gymnastics magazine. Of course they do Ukraine
too, thank God for sunglasses.

Now they're also doing skating dresses. The designs I saw were their leos
with skirts...

Mara

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Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 21:35:52 -0700
From: ***@RMII.COM
Subject: double posts/ not subscribed

| this, send email to Robyn (***@mit.edu) or myself to fix it (because

Old habits die hard. You'll have more luck emailing ***@ai.mit.edu.

;) Rachele

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Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 22:06:19 -0700
From: ***@RMII.COM
Subject: Countries of Gymn

One nice thing about a listserv is that it keeps track of things like
which countries our subscribers come from, and how many are from each
country. As you can see, we have a lot of non-USA subscribers.

Here is our country list:

Country Subscribers
------- -----------
Australia 7
Canada 12
Chile 1
France 1
Great Britain 6
Hungary 2
Iceland 1
Italy 1
Malaysia 1
New Zealand 1
Norway 2
Portugal 1
Spain 1
Sweden 1
Turkey 1
USA 286
??? 12

Total number of users subscribed to the list: 338
Total number of countries represented: 17

-Rachele

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Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 00:19:10 -0500
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: UF-LSU Women's Collegiate Meet

To All:
The University of Florida Gators called it their "prove it" meet. After
losing by four points the week before to Michigan and Georgia, the Florida
team members said they were embarrassed and wanted to prove they could score
much higher - and they wanted to do it on the road.
They did just that in a meet that went down to the wire, with #6 Florida
defeating #4 LSU, 195.65-195.55. The meet was indicative of the growing
rivalry between the two teams. In the past three meetings of the two, the
visiting team has won by 2 tenths or less.
"We went in there with the attitude that we were going to win," Gator
Junior Kristen Guise said "Even in warm-ups, if they'd yell, we'd yell
louder."
Not only did the Gators set a school team record but also set a school
record on vault (49.175) and floor (49.125), reflecting the growing
difficulty added into both events.
The Tigers sizzled on floor, averaging almost a 9.9 per routine en route to
a 49.425. But Tiger Jennifer Wood was even hotter, tying the NCAA all-around
record of 39.75, scoring a 10 on vault, a 9.95 on bars, a 9.825 on beam and a
9.975 on floor.
-- Ronald

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Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 00:21:52 -0500
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: UF-Penn State Women's Collegiate Meet

To All:
Debuting "E" moves on beam and floor, as well as three additional
10.00-start value vaults, the University of Florida Gators survived wobbles
and falls on beam to post the second highest score in school history on the
way to beating visiting Penn State, 195.25-194.225.
The added difficulty was obvious, and it had the crowd cheering louder than
it had all season long. The vault line-up now features 3 piked
handspring-fronts and a handspring-front with a half. Beam saw freshman Erika
Selga throw a true, E-rated "Sheep Jump" (where you jump and let the toes of
both feet touch the back of your head), and floor saw freshman Martha Grubbs
throw an E-rated piked full-in
"We were running out of time," Gator Head Coach Judi Avener said. "We knew
we needed to start throwing the hard stuff now. And the nice part was that we
didn't make mistakes on any of the new difficulty."
Penn State countered with difficulty of its own. Bridget Foley on bars
threw an E-rated piked Yeager, and Tracy Kerner on bars connected a
giant-full to a rare, layed-out, sky-high Gienger that made the crowd
gasp.Then she threw perhaps the most difficult floor dance combination of the
night, connecting a beautiful triple-turn to a flawless jump-double.
Kerner went on to win beam with a 9.9, while the Gators' Kristen Guise won
vault (9.9), bars (9.925), floor (9.9) and the all-around (39.6). While the
new difficulty caught the crowd's attention, the talk of the coaches and
gymnasts was over the first Gainesville meeting of Gator Head Coach Judi
Avener with the team she used to coach, Penn State.
"I am exhausted," Avener said after the meet, literally falling into a
chair. "I worked myself into a frenzy for this meet. I was so nervous. I felt
like I had something to prove, that I made the right decision to come to the
University of Florida."
Penn State Head Coach Steve Shephard, who used to serve as Avener's
assistant at Penn State, said he was worried the meet may affect his
gymnasts' concentration.
"It was an emotional night for us (the coaches) and our kids," he said. "I
was happy they weren't distracted."
-- Ronald

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Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 01:13:58 -0500
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Need Trivia Questions - Beam & Pommel Horse

That's right. Our next Ytivia quiz will be on balance beam and pommel horse,
the so-called 'tricky' events.

Send in your questions ASAP via private e-mail.

Mara

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Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 23:12:13 -0700
From: ***@RMII.COM
Subject: more Am Cup

| It was said that the men's field was weak, and the women's only a
| bit stronger. I disagree, it should be the other way around. The

This is true, and I retract my statement completely. The men were
quite lackluster on the first night and I was disappointed, which is
what I meant to imply -- not that their credentials were weak, but
rather their gymnastics. As Susan said, jet lag can be a real drag,
and also, the men's gymnastics was really much better on the finals
day.

| judge was present. USAG and the sponsors I believe, pay for the
| athletes, coaches, and delegation head perhaps, to travel, stay, and eat
| here (Russia optional on the last one ;-)). I am betting a judge is not
| thrown into that package. Could it be that I am suddenly hearing Okana's
| music? Cheap, cheap, cheap.

Re athletes and coaches, usually, the host country pays for the
lodging, but the competing countries pay for travel costs. There are
about 15 int'l gymnasts (just a guess, don't anyone going flying off
the handle) -- plus at least one coach -- I guarantee you the USGF is
not paying for 40 international air fares. Not because they're cheap
but because the membership dues just don't really belong there.

I don't know what the USGF covers for int'l judges. But I don't think
it's unusual for a gymnast to compete at an international w/o a judge
from his/her country -- we certainly don't send a judge with a gymnast
every time the US sends a gymnast to compete out of the country.

| routine once, that it is hard to remember. Harder tumbling, with an
| impressive two whips to piked full-in first pass, two front tumbling
| passes, and another full-in, all tumbling nailed. I wonder about her
| score, I honestly expected a 10. Perhaps her start value was 9.9 or 9.8,

I thought her tumbling was all a bit low and wouldn't have agreed with
a 10.0 (not that you said she deserved a ten, but that you expected
one, which is certainly different). Shannon's start value was a 10.0
(per the score sheet). Her bars -- it was definitely not a full-out in
competition (she did warm one up though). Between a full-in or a
half-in half-out, I am not sure enough to say that it was a full-in,
but those next to me at press row did comment also that it was a
full-in. I'd have to see a tape before I felt inclined to belabor
this point any more, however.

Re Dolgopolova's 9.1, her SV in prelims was a 9.5. (Don't have the
SV's for finals, sorry.)

Rachele

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Date: Wed, 8 Mar 1995 23:26:50 -0700
From: ***@RMII.COM
Subject: Pan Am Games gymnastics schedule

Pan Am Games Schedule, per the AP. Times are EST:

Thursday, March 9
Men, 7 a.m.
Men, Noon
Men, 3 p.m.
------
Friday, March 10
Women, 7 a.m.
Women, Noon
Women, 3 p.m.
------
Saturday, March 11
Opening Ceremonies, TBA
Men, 7 a.m.
Men, Noon
------
Sunday, March 12
Women, 7 a.m.
Women, Noon
Women, 5 p.m.
------
Monday, March 13
Men, 5 p.m.
------
Tuesday, March 14
Women, 5 p.m.
------
Wednesday, March 15
Men, 5 p.m.
------
Thursday, March 16
Women, 5 p.m.

-Rachele

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Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 00:33:38 -0700
From: ***@ASU.EDU
Subject: Re: UF-Penn State Women's Collegiate Meet

> Debuting "E" moves on beam and floor, as well as three additional
> 10.00-start value vaults, the University of Florida Gators survived wobbles

> it had all season long. The vault line-up now features 3 piked
> handspring-fronts and a handspring-front with a half. Beam saw freshman Erika
> Selga throw a true, E-rated "Sheep Jump" (where you jump and let the toes of
> both feet touch the back of your head), and floor saw freshman Martha Grubbs
> throw an E-rated piked full-in

Wait, I just recall hearing that both full-ins and double backs
are D's in NCAA. And a piked front is *still* a 10.00 vault? So many
gymnasts are doing barani-outs (and have been doing them for awhile) . . .

Amanda :-)

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Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 07:31:53 EST
From: ***@PSUVM.PSU.EDU
Subject: how to contact me regarding gymn-l stuff

The address ***@psuvm.psu.edu gets directed to me and is
the address I prefer to get gymn admin stuff at.

--Robyn

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Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 09:33:37 -0500
From: ***@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU
Subject: Re: more Am Cup

> | judge was present. USAG and the sponsors I believe, pay for the
> | athletes, coaches, and delegation head perhaps, to travel, stay, and eat
> | here (Russia optional on the last one ;-)). I am betting a judge is not
> | thrown into that package. Could it be that I am suddenly hearing Okana's
> | music? Cheap, cheap, cheap.
>
> Re athletes and coaches, usually, the host country pays for the
> lodging, but the competing countries pay for travel costs. There are
> about 15 int'l gymnasts (just a guess, don't anyone going flying off
> the handle) -- plus at least one coach -- I guarantee you the USGF is
> not paying for 40 international air fares. Not because they're cheap
> but because the membership dues just don't really belong there.
>
> I don't know what the USGF covers for int'l judges. But I don't think
> it's unusual for a gymnast to compete at an international w/o a judge
> from his/her country -- we certainly don't send a judge with a gymnast
> every time the US sends a gymnast to compete out of the country.

Are you sure the USGF doesn't send a judge every time it sends a gymnast
to an int'l meet? Definitely it's perfectly common to compete without a
judge from your country, but I would be surprised if the US didn't send one
every time or almost every time. But then, maybe there are more of
those meets with US gymnasts in them than I think. They do send a judge
even just to PR Cup, but I guess that's relatively close and easy and
everyone wants to go just for the beaches. I just wonder about the SWE and
LUX judges listed for Am Cup. Are these then people who are already in the
States for some other reason, or did they actually pay their own way from
all the way over there?

:)
Adriana

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Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 09:32:51 -0500
From: ***@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU
Subject: Re: Am Cup foreign women competitors

Glad Mara pointed out how Chunichi and DTB don't have their own good
"home" teams. I had just been thinking about that too, but I had sort of
dismissed it because the men's programs in those countries are very good
(well, if you count East Germany) and didn't seem to have the same
problem as AmCup. Otoh, women's gym politics outdo men's by a mile.

:)
Adriana

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Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 12:23:59 -0600
From: ***@HOBBS.LEESUMMIT.K12.MO.US
Subject: SELF INTRODUCTION

I am Patty from Lee's Summit, MO (a suburb of Kansas City).I am
in my 16th year of coaching high school gymnastics. I am currently on the
National High School Federation Gymnastics Rules Committee for girls. My
husband, Dave, and I own a private gym club also - Dave's Gymnastics
Factory. My family (parents, siblings, etc.) has been in gymnastics since
they came to this country from Switzerland (my dad still competes at the
age of 80). I grew up in the American Turners and did gymnastics before
anyone even knew what gymnastics was. My husband went through college on
a gymnastics scholarship at Long Island University and did grad.
assistance at Southern Illinois-Carbondale. Our son was state champion in
MO 5 years. He is in college now and no longer competes.My husband and I
both coach boys and girls. My husband also holds his Brevet National
rating for judging mens gymnastics. We are building a new facility for
our private club as we have outgrown our present one. I'm excited about
being able to communicate with others around the country about
gymnastics.I am also looking for info about conditioning, injury
prevention, new techniques, colleges for my students. Two of my
sophomores will be in level 10 next year. They want to compete in college
also. One of my high school students went to MIT (Lisa Arel) and did very
well. We have a strong high school program-undefeated in the entire
Kansas City metro area this year. That's my intro! Happy Handstands!

Patty

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Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 13:52:22 -0800
From: ***@LELAND.STANFORD.EDU
Subject: College question, etc.

My apologies if this ends up being a duplicate post. I got a
bounce notice from the listserv saying that my original post was
blank. Here's take two. :)

I have a question for all of you collegiate fans: have you ever
heard of a female performing a full-out on FX in college competition?
There has been at least one, since Stanford freshman Keri Monahan
performed it in Stanford's dual meet with Fullerton two weeks ago
(as long as you count it if she had to put her hands down because
she was a bit under-rotated).

The announcement was made (at Coach Greenwood's instruction, I
assume) that she had just become the first woman to perform it in
college competition. Can anyone else out there confirm or deny
this? It's not that I think Breck is lying; it's just that there
are so many gymnasts at so many schools that it would be easy for
him to miss someone else performing it at another school.

FYI, Ron's pre-season prediction may come true. He said something
like: "Stanford's Keri Monahan will be the surprise gymnast everyone
will wish they had recruited."

On several occasions, she has been on her way to shattering Stanford's
all-around record before having a fall on one event. Twice it was beam
(once after going 9.9 VT, 9.85 UB and before the full-out) and once it
was bars. The time that it was bars, she completed her Hindorf(f?) before
missing the Hecht to high bar later in the routine. On top of the fact
that I'd like to see what Keri can score when she goes four-for-four,
it's getting annoying to see the school record stuck at 38.975, held
by senior Jene' Elzie. It'll be fun to see who can break 39.00 first,
as Jene' has scored a 38.9 this season.

Also, for those of you with WWW access, the beginnings of my Stanford
Gymnastics homepage can be found at
http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~poser/stanfordgym.html.
Right now it's just two photos--one male and one female--but I hope
to get more info up there, including scores from the upcoming
weekend's meets.

-Patrick

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Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 14:58:00 PST
From: ***@MVS.OAC.UCLA.EDU
Subject: Juicy Gossip

This is as of yet unsubstantiated, but I heard through my grapevine
that the REAL reason Stobvtchataia did not compete in the olympics
is that she refused to continue as an artist until Lyssenko
put on a hairnet.

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Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 00:28:00 UTC
From: ***@GENIE.GEIS.COM
Subject: Sports Illustrated

Miracle of miracles, this week's _Sports Illustrated_ (Andre Agassi is on
the cover) has a story about Shannon Miller's approaching old age and the
recent American Cup. All I have to say is that I've taken better photos
with an instamatic...

Debbie

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Date: Fri, 10 Mar 1995 00:28:00 UTC
From: ***@GENIE.GEIS.COM
Subject: Re: Pan Am Games gymnastics s

The Spanish-language TV station, Telemundo, will be showing the Pan Am Games
although I don't know if they will devote any time to gymnastics.

Debbie

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Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 18:14:22 -0700
From: ***@ASU.EDU
Subject: Re: Juicy Gossip

> This is as of yet unsubstantiated, but I heard through my grapevine
> that the REAL reason Stobvtchataia did not compete in the olympics
> is that she refused to continue as an artist until Lyssenko
> put on a hairnet.
>

I knew it. See, Lyssenko again. Lyssenko, Lyssenko, Lyssenko!
She always barges in. Remember Abrashitova? Hmph.

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Date: Thu, 9 Mar 1995 20:27:23 -0500
From: ***@CAPACCESS.ORG
Subject: intro

Hello,

I've been meaning to introduce myself for some time nam ow.
My name is Megan. I am an 18 year old senior in
high school in Md. I am on the same team as Courtney
Granwell and Lisa Cozzens (other gymn members). Now don't
laugh, but I'm on level 6. (I didn; 't start gymnastics
until I was 12). Next yer ar I'm going to go to Tufts and
I'm very interse ested in the gymnastics situation up in
Boston. I'm not quiter ready to give it all up. I ha 've
had some coaching experience (long story). I've really enjoyed
GYMN so far , especil ally the lady who is looking for the
adult competitions. (Ih hope you found some).

Megan

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End of GYMN-L Digest - 8 Mar 1995 to 9 Mar 1995
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