GYMN-L Digest - 7 Apr 1995 to 8 Apr 1995

There are 24 messages totalling 639 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

1. favorite floor gone to favorite bars, beam, vault? (2)
2. MILOSOVICI ? (2)
3. Where are we?
4. FIG
5. Visit from Nelli Kim
6. FLOOR QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS:
7. FX routines
8. nadia's 10
9. Romania vs. GB/Cacovean (2)
10. Superstatrs of Gymnastics
11. highlights from show/Zmeskal
12. romanian ages (2)
13. Faves: Floor, Vault, Beam & Bars
14. Favorites on Events: (6)
15. Mimi Goyer

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Date: Fri, 7 Apr 1995 21:32:53 -0700
From: ***@ASU.EDU
Subject: favorite floor gone to favorite bars, beam, vault?

Some of the best beam workers ever (off the top of my head):

Groshkova was lovely, Yulia Yurkina (has anyone such fluid arm
movements as Yulia? I think not), Shaposhnikova, Yang Bo of course, as
well as all the Chinese, Silivas' '85 was good too, Dudnik and Fabrichnova
(beautiful) though both had technical weaknesses (Dundik's splip leaps
weren't and Fab's full turn is crud), Grosheva has great hands and chor.
and the layout full doesn't hurt, and Khorkina is just lovely too for some
"current" people. Oh yeah Begue of France (so there Alix!) is great
(floor too!) for another current.
Bars I love Yulia Kut ('89) and Yelena Grudneva ('92). Lu Li wins
straightest handstands though her casts were weak at times. All the
current Russians are great though the routines are weakened by the popular
standing on their feet on the LB, but Lebedeva and Kochetkova have great
dismounts and Grosheva has HUGE Fan Di (oh yeah Fan Di too) releases and
the Paks are great. Khorkina overall wins best everything because she is.
Vaulting, Lashenova had the best Yurtchenko full ever (don't even
try to find a match) and Lyssenko the best double full though Piskun is
getting there. Podkopayeva has something on vault that no one
else can touch, no question. Chusovitina of course, and Vasso of Greece
is an excellent vaulter too, one of the best currently imho.

More as I think of 'em! This is a fun thread. Oh the memories. .
. :-)

Amanda

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Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 00:33:44 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: MILOSOVICI ?

I was wondering how Lavinia Milosovici could score a 10 on floor in Barcelona
when she took a big hop forward after her punch front on the first pass. I
don't know too much in terms of the technical aspect of the sport, but that
hop has always stuck out in my mind (not that it wasn't a great routine in
terms of tumbling).

Ann Marie

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Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 01:22:44 -0400
From: ***@CORNELL.EDU
Subject: Re: MILOSOVICI ?

In message Sat, 8 Apr 1995 00:33:44 -0400,
Ann Marie Eckhart <B10j@AOL.COM> writes:

> I was wondering how Lavinia Milosovici could score a 10 on floor in
> Barcelona when she took a big hop forward after her punch front on the
> first pass. I don't know too much in terms of the technical aspect of


This would seem to be another one of those reasons for a massive
reconstruction of the scoring system, but, hey, that was a hard pass. (Not
to slight the rest of the routine.)
--

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Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 01:26:56 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Where are we?

To all of our friends that have tried to write to either GymFotoJim or
JimsLori from this list and from AOL, we have moved to a new AOL account! So
if you have sent us anything in the last three days, please forward it to
this address, we haven't been able to get our mail on the other account!

BTW, to anyone who wanted a copy of the Bad Press article, email me your
addresses again, AOL is holding them hostage!


Thanks all,
Lori and Jim

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Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 01:30:26 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: FIG

The other day Hunting for an easy to learn "D" move on Pipe in the FIG book
I came across a move which made me do a Triple take. A Triple LAYOUT
dismount. I was under the assumption that in order for a move to be in the
FIG it had to have been performed and to my knowledge this move has not. I
don't think it is possible. I realize this had been said about many moves
but A TRIPLE LAYOUT DISMOUNT !!! To top it off it is only an E. This should
be a Z plus bonus points. I love gymnastics but I sometimes wonder when this
is in the FIG and a hole lot of other more questionable stuff is left out and
up to the judges. ---- I here the new FIG for men will be out soon does
anyone no when ??? I here there will be a mess of changes. Remember
" Taking alot of turns means nothing it is the Quality of
the Turn that brings about improvement, growth, and
finaly perfection."
Peace :o) Carl

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Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 12:17:31 +0200
From: ***@MAIL.LSS.CO.ZA
Subject: Visit from Nelli Kim

Hi guys
Yesterday while we were having lunch at gym (we train 8:30-12:30 &
13:00-16:00 now that it's school holidays :>) Nelli Kim came to our gym
with her daughter to visit Tamara Alexeeyva. Tamara was her coach as well
as Olga Korbut's and now coaches us. It was funny because she just said,
"Hello girls", and we just answered a casual "Hello", but only after she
had walked inside did we realize, like hey, she's *famous*.
Just thought I'd let you know.
Helen.

P.S-I'll have results of the South African Open International Mixed Pairs
and individual competition soon.

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Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 10:44:52 -0400
From: ***@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU
Subject: Re: FLOOR QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS:

> >I would have to give best floor tumbling to Olga Strahzeva (see above),
>
> Laschenova's is right up there too, but both these ladies tended to cowboy

And Shushunova. And Chusovitina. And Gutsu (double layout third
pass!!).

:)
Adriana

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Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 10:50:10 -0400
From: ***@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU
Subject: Re: FX routines

> Favorite bar set--
> Strazva's '89 Worlds (talk about a moving bar set!!!!!)
> Missy Marlowe's stalder work at '87 Pan-Am's

Bar sets! I think my favorite has to be Gurova's '87 (even though her
form wasn't the greatest): ro full-twisting ff mount, kip cast,
Shaposhnikova, uprise free hip handstand, 1/2 pirouette, Tkatchev, kip
cast over the top slip grip, straddle back handstand, straddle jam, kip
cast, a giant or two, full-in. Maybe a free hip handstand in there at
the end too. I just loved it because she kept doing the unexpected (at
least in the first half). Love Omelianchik's '86-'87 set too -- not a
single giant in it!!

:)
Adriana

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Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 10:54:05 -0400
From: ***@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU
Subject: Re: nadia's 10


> this perfect 10 bar routine has one or more major flaws-the most obvious
> being small steps on the landing after ehr dismount-adrienne
>

I wouldn't exactly call the smal steps a "major" flaw. Anyway, nobody
is denying that 99.99% (at least) of 10's are about ranking, not about
perfection. Or about perfection only in the sense of how "perfect" one
routine is relative to the others. Which is why we should get rid of 10's.
This also addresses the question about Milosovici's 10 in Barcelona.

:)
Adriana

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Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 10:55:53 -0400
From: ***@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU
Subject: Re: favorite floor gone to favorite bars, beam, vault?

Actually, the crash in Seoul notwithstanding, I think Shushunova had one
of the best Yurchenko double fulls (I'm thinking of the one she did in
Rotterdam). It's not the longest, but it was *really* high, and unlike
almost every other gymnast (Lisenko included), she was totally done
twisting well before she landed.

:)
Adriana

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Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 11:30:56 -0400
From: ***@GWIS2.CIRC.GWU.EDU
Subject: Re: Romania vs. GB/Cacovean

I don't mean to start a controversy but I'm from Rom and I love
gymnasticxs. I have been keeping up w/ the list for a while now w/o ever
really posting much and I have noticed this on-going theme that Rom lies
about the age of their gumnasts. Where are we all getting this idea and
is it just a Rom problem?
Monica

>
> > One of last year's IG's had an article on Romania and mentioned something
> > like a power shift away from Deva towards Bucharest (and Onesti?). Aren't
> > Milosovici and Gogean at Deva? Given what could be cited as their "advanced
> > age", does anyone have an opinion on their presence at Atlanta? It would
> > seem that they are too good to dispose of in a political move.
>
> IMO, they'll be there, barring injury. Besides, they may not be as old as
> Romania claims.
>
>
> :)
> Adriana
>

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Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 10:55:36 -18521200
From: ***@MADRAD.RADIOLOGY.WISC.EDU
Subject: Re: Superstatrs of Gymnastics

We attended the Gold gymnastics tour last
night in Chicago. It was very entertaining, and
unlike the Superstars' tour, we did not have the
"clinic" beforehand. Bela did, however, do a 10
minute "commercial" for his summer camp. Maybe
that was part of a deal with Paul Ziert? (In order
for his gymnasts to join the show?)
The best part came after the show, when
there was an "autographing session" with all the
gymnasts (except the Romanians)! It was really
neat to meet your gymnastics idols, though they
were all VERY tired at that point (but were still
gracious). Definitely worth the $35!

Lani.

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Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 15:01:14 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: highlights from show/Zmeskal

Well, the gymnastics show was really fun. We had really good seats and we
got there early to see some of the warm ups. Dom M missed the high bar on
her new mount twice. I think that is because they had adjusted the bars
father apart for another act. Bogi is looking really good. She added front
tumbling to her FX and landed it good. Dom M. also has new mount to beam.
Bogi did one like it too. Its hard to explain, but watch for it in the
future.
Well, for Kim-she was definitly the one most people came to see. When she
did her three whips the whole crowd cheered and she wasnt even done with the
routine. On floor-double layout and two double backs. The last one might
have been a double pike, but I had to lean over to see it. On beam she might
of fell off, but I'm not sure. The usual combinations of layout stepouts and
back handspring stepouts. Also front handspring and standing layout stepout
starting on one leg. Kim is still short, but heavier. Its hard to tell if
its muscle or fat. She didnt do a real big bar routine. No releases.
This was the first time I have ever seen live gymnastics, and I had a great
time. Also-Milo, gogean, and hatijen (sp??) looked good, too. Gina has a
new release on bars. Well, thats it for now.
Anne

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Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 16:19:34 -0400
From: ***@PRISM.GATECH.EDU
Subject: romanian ages

the falsifying of ages by the romanians has happened with silivas, dobre
and more-both of these girls admitted it in articles in various IG issues
a few years ago-specifically the article about silivas's retirement and
another article about dobre and how she did not have any use for romanian
gymnastics anymore...sorry that this is oyur home country (as a response
to the woman who brought this up), but facts are facts-it does not take
any credit from the beautiful gymnastics the romanians produce-it just
goes to show, again, how politics and government affect simple things like
a sport that is meant for fun-adrienne

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Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 13:13:47 -0700
From: ***@IX.NETCOM.COM
Subject: Faves: Floor, Vault, Beam & Bars

Hi All,

Well, I was going to sit this one out, but I just can't :-)

On floor, one of the best has to be Baraksanova (especially on the JPN video of
the 85'
Worlds where she is tracking!) she has better arms than even Bogie!
Omeliantchik is of
course the winner of "most charming". Besides, who can tumble back to back
better?
Fabrichnova's 91' JR routine is cuter than cute, and every 89' USSR floor ex.
could have
won the gold. Bogie's 88 & Khorkina's 94 rule, and Podkoypeva will be in there
if she
ever gets music!

Beam has to go to Fabrichnova (her full turn is better than a ROM's-Amanda :),
Dudnik
was also great. Other good ones include Lysenko (92' Olympics), Khorkina,
Shasposnikova
(sp?), Baraksanova, Mostepanova (remember the never ending handstand
pirouette?), and
Kotchetkova.

Kotchetkova wins bars IMO, with Straz & Omeliantchik right behind.

Vault is between Dudnik's 2-twisting Yurchenko, and Khorkina's new vault. Bogie
should
have won gold just for doing a Yurchenko full!

I know that I am missing tons of people, but this is just off the top of my head
:-)

Alix :)

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Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 16:38:59 -0400
From: ***@GWIS2.CIRC.GWU.EDU
Subject: Re: romanian ages

Wow, I never knew. Don't worry about offending me b/c I am romanian. I
sort of learned to separate the country and people from the politics.
Thanks for the reply... Monica

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 17:06:15 -0400
From: ***@PRISM.GATECH.EDU
Subject: Favorites on Events:

Okay...so I succumbed to the pressure and I have to ad my 2 cents:


1)Vault: I would have to give this one to Brandy Johnson. She was HUGE
on this event giving her vaults height AND distance.
NO wonder she was silver medalist on this event at the 89 Worlds.
She deserved it and was ROBBED at Seoul.

Honorable Meantion:

Oksana Chusovitina: Illustrates (as Brandy does) that traditional
approach vaults are just as good as the RO variety and makes Mary Lou's
perfect ten layout Tsuk full look horrible by comparison.



2) Bars: This is tough, as I'm not particularly interested in this event
of the four. Its okay, but I like the others better (sorry!). I would have to
say that I think that Lu Li's 92 routine was one of the best I have seen,
but Suk would be a close second. They both deserved the gold medals they have
won on this event.


Honorable Meantion: Olga Strahezava. Like they said in the
IG article about the 88 USA/USSR meet "she works bars like a
guy." Very strong and a talented gymnast who had the misfortuen of getting
injured early in her career.


3) Beam: Sorry, Nadia, but your not number one here. I give the Gold to two
gymnasts. These are Yang Bo and Dudnik. Both these gymnast are in a class by
themselves on this event. Yang Bo has the most incredible extension on
her tumbling and her ring leap is without a doubt the most beautiful move
I have ever seen on the beam. *(I've only seen Li Li come close to her
extension on this move, and that was in Birmingham.) Yangs tumbling
was incredible as well. In Barcelona, she did: 1 arm FF to two layouts
(GORGEOUS), but crashed on her FF. layout, Rulfova combination. If she
has hit it, there is NO WAY Lyssenko could have won.

Dudenik was another great gymnast who had the misfortune for being from the
Soviet Union and hence not making the cut off for some big meets. Her
Round-off LAYOUT full *ON* the beam was INCREDIBLE! And she should have won
a gold at the 89 worlds if only she could have controlled her Triple
twist dismount.


Honorable Meantion:

Oksana Fabrishova: Probably the best beam performer currently working.
Does't put anything out of place and has orginallity, pose, and
grace, along with great tumbling. She has it all.

Kelly Garrison Steves: Made beam fun and like they said in an old IG, she
actually looks up from the beam and SMILES! Plus, the mega tough RO
full mount. Whewww..Not something I would want to train!



4) Floor Exercise:

The premiere event for the women. Again, a tie, since I can't make up my mind
who is the best! (Neither can olympic judges at times, too!)

Kim Zemeskal: When she put EVERYTHING she can do, no one can touch her.
Her optional FX at the 92 trials WAS SENSATIONAL! She is definitely one
of the most powerfull gymnasts I have seen (I saw here in 91 at the
Mixed Pairs held in Atlanta and she was GREAT!)

Christina Bontas: Sheer POWER! She may not dance as well as other gymnasts,
but she can certainly hold her own with the rest with power tumbling. (If
you don't think so, take a look at her absolutely technically perfect
double layout mount that she did in Barcelona in the AA. She was one of two
gymnast to recieve a 9.962 (highest scores) on this event in the AA.) Plus,
one of only a few to do a full twisting double layout.

Svetlana Boginskya: Probably the best example of the fact that the FX is not
just tumbling and you have to do something with your body between tumbling
runs. Her routine at Seoul was fully deserving of the highest score in the
event finals. A true artist.




Honorable Mention:

Oksana Omeleintchik: Like everyone else says, she made combination-dual
diagonal tumbling fun.

Oksana Fabrishnova: I really like her. She can move beautifully and she
has better tumbling than what Bogi could do. She could (should) be a
medalist at '96 on FX.

Irina Barakanosova: Probably the gymnast who I wish I could have seen
in '84 at the Olympics instead of her being at Oloumuc. She has
beatiful extension and to even dare to say that she and Kristie Phillips
are "Cut from the same Clothe" as a gymnastic magazine did back in
85 is INSULTING! I only wish she would have had a longer international
career.

Camelia Voinea: I never saw here perform, but they said she was FANTASTIC,
and did a full-in punch front before Milosovic and Kut did it. Also a double
layout punch front. I wonder how her knees felt after a good FX work-out?


Jeff

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Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 15:34:08 -0700
From: ***@ASU.EDU
Subject: Re: Romania vs. GB/Cacovean

> I don't mean to start a controversy but I'm from Rom and I love
> gymnasticxs. I have been keeping up w/ the list for a while now w/o ever
> really posting much and I have noticed this on-going theme that Rom lies
> about the age of their gumnasts. Where are we all getting this idea and
> is it just a Rom problem?


It's not just a Romanian problem, but it is pretty much ignored by
the FIG. Several of the gymnasts that have come out of Romania's system
have said age faking was common and the government encouraged it (by
supplying falsified passports etc). Silivas had varying birthdays, and I
believe it was either Popa or Voinea who also said their own ages were
faked (I think Dobre was alright). Anyway the FIG banned the PRK from 93
Worlds (and we haven't seen them since) for falsifying ages, but Romania
is too powerful a country for the FIG to try to punish them, or even
investigate apparently.

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Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 15:45:00 PDT
From: ***@POWERGRID.ELECTRICITI.COM
Subject: Re: Mimi Goyer

>Mimi was a lovely gymnast, what little I saw of her. At least at some
>point I'm pretty sure she was at MarVaTeens. Whether she ever moved to
>Reno, I don't know.
<snip>

>:)
>Adriana

Ah yes, an *artistic* gymnast. Now we're talking ...

I first saw Mimi Goyer at invites along about '84-85, when she was a
gymnast at Reno Flips (bad leos, fab choreography chez Nancy Roach).
Couldn't see over the beam. She was 4-2.

By about '88 she had moved to Maryland and MarVaTeens (saw her at KIPS invite).

Last saw her as a Cal gymnast, '91 (?) Pac-10s. Great FX, great execution
and FELT, to music from "Havana" (good theme, heard the flick was a bore).
Wish it had made video. Oh, well. I have a shot or two; don't do her
justice.


Nancy

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Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 19:07:21 -0400
From: ***@MINERVA.CIS.YALE.EDU
Subject: Re: Favorites on Events:

> Oksana Chusovitina: Illustrates (as Brandy does) that traditional
> approach vaults are just as good as the RO variety and makes Mary Lou's
> perfect ten layout Tsuk full look horrible by comparison.

I have to take issue with this. Chusovitina's great, but IMHO, her Tsuk
full doesn't match Retton's. Btw, what about Joyce Wilborn's Goodwills
layout Tsuk full for the most stuck vault ever?

I can't believe I forgot to mention Kim G.S.'s bars on my faves.

:)
Adriana

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Date: Sun, 9 Apr 1995 00:09:11 BST
From: ***@IC.AC.UK
Subject: Re: Favorites on Events:

Just briefly here're my picks:

Best vault: Dudnik's double twist Yurchenko. Such perfect landings!
I like Davidova's full-on full-off "Korbut" vault too in 1980 since
nobody does that anymore.

Best bars: After all these years I still say Comaneci's in 1976.
Such releases and twisting elements!

Best Beam: Miss Dudnik again in 1989. Beautiful round-off full
twisting back! And free cartwheel layout layout. Gutsu's in 1992
I also love with nice standing full-twisting back.

Best floor: No doubt that most people have included this in his/her
list: Oksana Omelianchik 1985!

Sherwin

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Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 16:16:12 -0700
From: ***@ASU.EDU
Subject: Re: Favorites on Events:

> full doesn't match Retton's. Btw, what about Joyce Wilborn's Goodwills
> layout Tsuk full for the most stuck vault ever?

Wow, most stuck vault ever, let's see, I liked Chen Cuiting's Yurtchenko
at '86 Goodwill too, and of course Shannon's AA final 1st vault was
flawlessly stuck (now why do the networks insist on showing her second
vault all the time with the slight foot "scoot"?). Kochetkova's
barani-outs can stick like glue. Khorkina's AA vault from Stockholm (what
a vault, by the way in my eyes she is the 94 European Champ AA, bars and
beam) was stuck cold.

Amanda

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 16:18:38 -0700
From: ***@ASU.EDU
Subject: Re: Favorites on Events:

> Just briefly here're my picks:
>
> Best vault: Dudnik's double twist Yurchenko. Such perfect landings!
> I like Davidova's full-on full-off "Korbut" vault too in 1980 since
> nobody does that anymore.

I think you mean her full-on handspring front off. Wow, she
didn't make it but it was so impressive anyway. And another girl did a
handspring double front! That is the vault final of the week if not the
century.

Amanda

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 8 Apr 1995 21:40:02 -0400
From: ***@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Favorites on Events:

>> Oksana Chusovitina: Illustrates (as Brandy does) that traditional
>> approach vaults are just as good as the RO variety

The problem is, it was never recognized. For examples, see '91 Worlds, '92
Worlds...

Mara

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End of GYMN-L Digest - 7 Apr 1995 to 8 Apr 1995
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