gymn Digest Fri, 4 Nov 94 Volume 3 : Issue 36

Today's Topics:
'94 ITA Grand Prix
Another Karolyi article + China
Asian Games - Women's Team
Back from e-mail purgatory
China Report
Code of Points
dateline
Eileen Diaz
Fairness
Fairness of team selection (2 msgs)
Gary Alexander Joins the USAG
Gymnasts and Money (2 msgs)
Henrich subject on "Today" (fwd)
I'm back
Levinson retires (2 msgs)
Nemov (esp. for Susan :) ) (2 msgs)
prestigous meets (poll)
Trivia Answers-Romanian Gym
World Team (3 msgs)

This is a digest of the gymn@athena.mit.edu mailing list.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Oct 1994 00:24:40 -0400
From: ***@wam.umd.edu
Subject: '94 ITA Grand Prix

From ***@aol.com Fri Oct 28 04:48:37 1994
To: gymn@MIT.EDU
Subject: '94 ITA Grand Prix

I saw the latest "La Gimnasta" and though I don't have it front of me as I
remember the the results are as follows ... (if anyone really cares I can get
the full results with scores for posting or Nancy who has a better memory
then me could expound).

Well Chusovitna finally had an AA victory (wonder if this is her first AA win
since '90 Olympic Cup) beat Angela Ghimpu of Romania and Yuri Chehci won his
4th Grand prix. Yuri beat Igor Korobchinskii who until now had been on a roll
(2nd to Ivankov in two meets). Igor's loss hinged on the fact that he scored
a dismal 9.0 on SR while Chechi had a 9.8 on the same event.

-Susan
<stobchatay@aol.com>


If you want to count the 'new' version of the World cup...didn't
Chusovitina win it last year???

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Oct 94 20:08:12 PST
From: ***@eworld.com
Subject: Another Karolyi article + China

>Chinese gymnasts (an unidentified male gymnast was
>photographed) were beginning (or else considering) using that >new "miracle
'drug'" witchcraft type concoction that the
>Chinese runners and swimmers have successfully used that has >stirred up so
much controversy.

What a load of nonsense. Witchcraft? Leave it to superstition and a
religiously-dominated culture to come up with such crap. There is a lot less
"witchcraft" in the diet of Chinese athletes than in those of American
athletes who take diet supplements, multivitamins, etc.

I challenge any respected,international body to come up with physical
evidence of anabolic, narcotic, or otherwise restricted substances in the
diet of any Chinese athlete. It isn't there.

While Chinese athletes typically take herbal instead of chemical
perscriptions for ailments, this is hardly witchcraft, and it is a practice
they have followed for thousands of years, even when their athletes were only
so-so.

I can only surmise that a desire to sell newspapers and make excuses for the
less-than-stellar showing of their own athletes would prompt thinking
journalists to write such garbage. Secret Drugs? Witchcraft? How about a
forty-year national commitment to sports and a billion people to draw from?
With those numbers, China should dominate the world in most sports anyway.
The fact that it doesn't should be, if anything, proof that drugs are NOT in
widespread use in Chinese athletics.

Please. Enough of this nonsense until somebody pees into a paper cup and
positive lab results come back.

David

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Oct 94 19:17:53 PST
From: ***@eworld.com
Subject: Asian Games - Women's Team

Sorry I took 24 days to get back to you on this, but I just got back from
China.

Vault has traditionally been a weak spot with the Chinese. It has to do with
physics and the fact that when you hit the board with 65 lbs, you simply
aren't going to go far, or if you do its harder to bring to a stop. The
Chinese need to concentrate more on the power-leg aspects of vaulting,
something I noticed is still lacking in the training.

It'll come, trust me. They Know the weakness is there and although I can't
say much, the upcoming gymnasts are giving it more of their workout time.

David

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Oct 1994 22:16:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: ***@netcom.com
Subject: Back from e-mail purgatory

We try to stick to topic here.
SOmetimes net issues of interest come up.
Mara and others on this list are on via the net provider AOL.
AOL has enjoyed a significant growth of its subscriber base.
AOL did not start out to be internet compatible but has engineered
various hacks to get on the net. This unfortunate combination of hacks,
growth and some other issues have conspired to cause AOL to outgrow their
net gateway. This is ciomplicated by the sheer number of "net newbies"
who have not learned more efficient ways of working.
Bored kids, causing vandalism in cyberspace via AOL simply ice the cake!
AOL tried to improve its gateway and outgrew it yet again !
(Poor babies, wish MY business would grow that fast !)

ANyway, our AOL friends are going to be going through this problem from time
to time for the forseeable future. Hang in there, all, and be patient !

Now back to people flying through the air without jet assistance !

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-texx

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Oct 94 19:49:54 PST
From: ***@eworld.com
Subject: China Report

Hey All!

If you've all wondered why I've been so silent over the last month, I've just
returned from a business trip to China.

Thank you, especially Susan, for your positively thorough coverage of the
Asian Games. Here are a few interesting points I picked up overseas:

-- I told Li Xiaoshuang all about GYMN and he got real excited and wanted me
to pass on a big "Hi" to everybody. He wants you all to know that even though
we will probably not see him after Dortmund and all throughout 1995, he will
be training hard for Atlanta and looks forward to seeing y'all there.

-- Mo Huilan (boy, is she _LITTLE_) was beaming on her return from the Asiad.
Li Ning gave her a solid gold key on an ornate wooden pedestal during a
ceremony we gave for the athletes at the Great Hall of the People (it was
televised live to all of China). She is a national hero, and met the Primier
and President and got her picture doing so on the cover of "People's Daily."
Go, Mo!

-- Li Ning saw to it that everyone on the Asia Games team, whether winner or
looser, went home with something. Apart from a sizeable Li Ning wardrobe,
they each took home in the order of 2 years' salary each, donated by Li-Ning
and its Parent company, the Jianlibao group. This was aside from the banquet
we threw on TV for them at the Great Hall of the People (China's Capitol
Building.)

-- Ground has been broken on the first major private gymnastics club in
China. It should be no suprise to anyone that the name on the door will be
"Li-Ning." The building is five stories tall, with 18,000 square feet per
floor, for a grand total of 90,000 square feet. It will have equipment from
all over the world, and we are trying to work out financing to build a dorm
adjacent so we can bring athletes from different nations to China to come and
train.

-- Got a very nice tour of the National Gym facilities. The kids work hard!
They get what ten years ago passed for the best care and facilities in China,
but what today are starting to look a little run down. Actually the
difference is that the rest of Beijing is starting to look so nice...!
Athletes sleep two to a room, eat well, and get a stipend so they can buy
luxuries.

-- A blast from the past: There is a certain David out in GYMN land (who once
trained with the Chinese) who gets a hello from a brother gymnast those of us
in China call simply "Casio." Casio wants David to know that the girls in
Shanghai still talk about him...

On a more personal note, many of you know that I have served the last
year-and-a-half as the Director of Li-Ning's Gymnastics Academy in Los
Angeles. It is now official: I am being bumped upstairs, as it were. Mingming
Yang, China's former head coach, is taking the position of Head Coach from Li
Ning's wife Yong Yan Chen, and Wendi Deng is moving into my slot as Director.
I have been named to the Board of Directors of the parent company for all of
Li Ning's business activities in China, Li-Ning Sports Industrial (Holdings)
Ltd., and will be taking a more active role in the development of our
manufacturing and retailing in China (we are up to 200 stores and growing.) I
have been asked to sit on the Board of Trustees of the Gym here in the U.S.,
so I will never truly leave the gym.

But I do want to say that as a businessman with no experience in gymnastics
as anything but a groupie, GYMN has been a tremendous help in my
understanding the mechanics and politics of the sport, and was therefore of
huge assistance in my task of turning the gym around. Rachele, Robyn, and
George are to be commended for operating one of the best groups on the net,
and all of you are to give yourself well-deserved pats on the back for your
efforts to advance the cause of the sport. If gymnastics ever had a "voice",
GYMN certainly is it.

David

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Oct 94 19:53:13 PST
From: ***@eworld.com
Subject: Code of Points

Again, sorry this is late, but...

The FIG Technical Committee for the men met last month (September) in
Vancouver. There will be no changes in the code until 1997, according to Li
Ning, who is one of the current six members.

Just an FYI.

David

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Oct 1994 21:58:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: ***@netcom.com
Subject: dateline

I had been dreading that program.
I knew gymnasts were gonna' take it in the teeth.
I agree that the parents were blaming everyone but themselves.
Less than 2 hrs a day with your kid ?!?
Any way we can them to Singapore for caning ?
Always someone elses fault, sonds like how we ended up with this whole
lawyer problem...
Geez ! Cant anyone take responsibility for their own &^%$#@ ups ?


*Sarchasm mode ON*
I LOVE it !

The guys are protrayed as a bunch of pansies and the girls are all anorexic!




Re the guy who was afraid of p-bars a few weeks ago :

I thought of you when I fell 2 stories today and caught myself on the
scaffolding -----RIGHT under the armpits !

Repeat after me: "ADVIL is my friend !"

-texx

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 17:29:01 -0500 (EST)
From: ***@minerva.cis.yale.edu
Subject: Eileen Diaz

Looks like my mailbox is no longer being held hostage. :)

Just got some newspaper clippings from my mom. US Jr. Nat'l Team member
Eileen Diaz, who I presume was born in Puerto Rico but in any case lived
there until 5 or 6 years ago, depending on which newspaper you read, and
whose father still lives there, competed in one of our semi-annual
age-group meets a couple of weeks ago (and won by a landslide; it goes
without saying. 73.525, in case you were wondering). Now, this presents an
interesting case. Eileen is by no means the first gymnast of Puerto
Rican descent to be interested in competing/to actually compete for
Puerto Rico (though she is only the second one I can remember who spent
some significant portion of her life living in PR), but she is the first
one also to have a realistic opportunity to represent the United States
internationally. She has also come on the scene at a time when
objections to participation for PR by these gymnasts is at an all-time
low, partly because she is so good, but also (IMO) mostly because PR
doesn't have enough female gymnasts to fill a full team, so no one would
be getting displaced. Right now it appears she is (not surprisingly)
keeping her options open. According to the paper, she will be competing
as a senior at US Classic in February, which is the same month PR will be
selecting the gymnasts to go to PanAms in Argentina (which will take
place in March. Will Classic be the US trials?). I think she will be
committed once she represents one federation/olympic committee or the
other. According to the paper, she turned down the chance to compete in
Central American-Caribbean Games in November of '93 because she didn't feel
ready gymnastically, but my guess is she wasn't ready to commit to PR so
young, not knowing what the outlook would be for representing the US in
the future. I'd say qualification for the Olympics as an individual for
PR is almost a given in her case, but she'd be totally out of the medal
game if she did that, whereas she'd be right in it (at least as far as
team medals) if she made it onto the US team. A classic "Let's Make a
Deal" dilemma.

I know there was another girl floating around who was (or at least whose
mother was) interested (I spoke to the mother at the end of the summer),
but I don't know whatever came of that.

:)
Adriana

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 16:49:40 -0500 (EST)
From: ***@tiger.hsc.edu
Subject: Fairness

In my defense I'd like to point out that the team selection process
has changed constantly over the past many years. Does anyone remember
the problems associated with the '84 Olympic selection process? I
remember my coaches talking about the that team selection. (And how one
athlete was seriously hurt just prior to competition. But that story
is purely word of mouth, so I will not elaborate.)

The Men's selection process is also in question. Notice how our number 1
gymnast did not make the '88 Olympic team? Ok...people can argue as to
Dan Hayden's rank as number one, but our team selection process certainly
puts a great deal of stress on all of our athletes. One comment made during
the World Trials essentially said that the gymnasts were simply trying to
make the team, not win the meet. (But notice how the media pointed out
the Dom was the winner? I wonder exactly 'who' is putting the pressure
on our athletes?) Yet is there enough depth on the US National team for
there to be a real problem? Granted, #7,8,9 are fairly interchangeable
and I have the most sympathy for these gymnasts, but the TOP gymnasts will
usually make the cut, as evidenced by a petitioned Kerri and Larissa. (Now,
whether or not the either of them is a TOP gymnast can be discussed, but that
is another post.)

I guess my beef comes more from the media's portrail of our sport and its
desire for absolute competition. The media also likes a single winner. Yes,
the Men's '84 team won the Olympic Gold, but wasn't a great deal more
emphasis placed on Mary Lou?

As for looking into the future: granted, no one can, but we still have to use
our best judgement based upon the information we have now. No one knew
Szabo would fall in '84, but wasn't she still one of the top gymnasts? Can
anyone imagine NOT sending Szabo (baring injury) based on her prior and
most recent performances? [I think people still tend to forget that the
Szabo still won (correct my if I'm wrong, please) 4 golds and 1 silver?]

Our selection process leaves many people hurt, may disillusioned. Anyone
remember Sandy Woolsey? Kim Kelly? Christie Phillips? Who remembers the
8th placed or 9th placed gymnast?

Ok folks, flame on.

:)

Julius

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 31 Oct 94 20:36:39 EST
From: ***@BBN.COM
Subject: Fairness of team selection

It seems to me that the recent discussion has a couple of different
threads running through it:

(1) That the selection process should be fair, and not arbitrary.
(2) That the selection process, once announced, should be
strictly adhered to.
(3) That USAG has the desire to send the best team possible
to a Worlds or Olympic competition.

I think the worst part about the 1992 women's team selection was
that (2) and (1) were, it appears, *both* violated.

It could be argued (not necessarily by me!) that the USAG is
within its rights to pick any scheme it wants (even something
as bizarre as "only gymnasts whose first name is Dominique" :-)),
with the proviso that once they've chosen it and announced it,
they can't change it at whim later.

Some sort of ranking like the skiers' World rankings could be used,
in which a gymnast's score for the past year is calculated
based on all the major events a gymnast's competed in in the past year,
and then the top 7 (or whatever is needed) gymnasts chosen to go.
A problem arises when a gymnast's been out most of a season for
injuries: s/he might have a rank based on only 1 or 2 meets,
or be only getting up to speed now after recovering from an injury
(like Kerri Strug at the moment). You could adjust the scoring
scheme to adjust for trends (more weight to more recent contests).
Otherwise, it might be something as banal as the gymnast's
average (or, better, median) all-around score over the past year
at any of a list of major competitions (yeah, this is subject
to discussion, as is when the "fiscal" year should start,
but surely a list like this could be generated--it can err on
the side of being overinclusive without risking real damage to
the results). I'm still not certain what you could fairly do
about gymnasts like Kerri who are too injured to compete until
right before the target competition, or who become injured right
before the competition. I'd propose something like these conditions:
(1) If you've been too injured to compete, but your score
from last year was good enough to be in the top 7 for this year,
you could petition, providing that you meet condition 2.
(2) Everyone has to demonstrate that s/he is physically
capable of competing, by competing at the elite level somewhere
within _____ weeks of the target competition. (Pick a number
to fill in the blank, then stick with it.)

The usual way to go about figuring the scoring system is to
take the *past* few years' worth of data, try different
reasonable scoring systems, and see which one comes closest
to predicting how people placed at, say, Nationals (yes,
I know, the injury/non-compete problem is still there, but
that's life). Then you publish the scoring scheme,
and your rules for conditions (1) and (2) and above.
Then you stick to the scheme for the entire season.
At the end of the season, you can use this year's results
to help you figure out next year's scoring scheme, which
you then publish early in the new year (before, if you can help it).

If you start something like this for a pre-Olympic year, and
it works out, then you can continue to do it through the
Olympic year. If someone really disagreed with the scoring
scheme, they could try to petition the USAG or even
sue in court to change the scheme, but the USAG
could avoid charges of fiat, whim, or arbitrariness
if any gymnast could figure out where s/he stood at
all times, like the skiers can.

>>Kathy
------------------------------

Date: Tue, 01 Nov 94 09:30:37 GMT
From: ***@axion.bt.co.uk
Subject: Fairness of team selection

>Some sort of ranking like the skiers' World rankings could be used,
>in which a gymnast's score for the past year is calculated
>based on all the major events a gymnast's competed in in the past year,
>and then the top 7 (or whatever is needed) gymnasts chosen to go.

Spookily enough such a system is employed in cricket (see its not
just a kind of baseball game after all ;)). The world rankings in
cricket are calculated on the basis of the performance of the bowler
or the batsmen, depending on how well they do and what kind of
game it is and who the match was against affects the weightings of points,
also past results count for less, so to keep near the top of the rankings
you need to perform consistently.

So if you wanted to transpose that system to gymnastics, you would
have to consider the kind of meet and the kind of opposition at the meet
by that I mean is it an elite opposition or just the local gym club type
of thing.

>I'm still not certain what you could fairly do
>about gymnasts like Kerri who are too injured to compete until
>right before the target competition, or who become injured right
>before the competition. I'd propose something like these conditions:

But in anycase picking a team to represent your country from just the rankings
isnt a good idea, the rankings themselves are a good idea dont get me
wrong, but I mean ok look at it this way say if a gymnast failed to win a
major competition because h/she momentarily had a lapse of concentration such
that they got a bad score and then finished last in that event, but
this wasnt a true representation of their ability if they were borderline on
the rankings a poor performance could mean the difference between being
included in the team or not. Now that adds pressure, and thats not so good.

If you want to pick the best team, then the trial system is the fairest
way to go but you have to stick to that trial system otherwise its
pointless doing it.

It might be worth someone (how about it Susan ;) ) working out what team
would have been picked if a ranking system had been employed.


Clive

The Ashes "Win back" Tour 1994/95

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Oct 1994 20:16:29 -0400
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Gary Alexander Joins the USAG

I can't remember if any info about this was ever posted.

>From the newsgroup group "rec.sport.olympics" (orginally posted by Ray
Osborne <rayosb@delphi.com>) ...

"Gary Alexander has been named Vice-President of Programs and
Events for USA Gymnastics in Indianapolis, Ind. Alexander leaves
his position as the Director of U.S. Olympic Festivals for the
USOC. He is scheduled to begin his new post Nov. 9. Full release
can be accessed on USOC's EBB."

-posted by Susan

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Oct 1994 02:48:24 -0500
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Gymnasts and Money

Contrary to what someone said earlier gymnasts *do* make money these days
(Geez, haven't you ever hard of Scherbo???). Most International events
(including the American Cup) hand out prize money for victories ... National
Olympic (also including the US) commitees and NGB's offer financial rewards
for medals won ... exhibition tours and endorsement deals for gymnasts where
they are paid for performing (or just appearing) are growing in number ...
alomst all federations provide funds to facilitate training ... etc., etc.
While gymnastics is certainly not yet the big money sport that figure skating
and tennis are it is certainly headed that way.

I personally think it's fine in 99% of the situations. Gymnasts work hard to
attain their skills and should be rewarded in the same manor other athletes
are. Gymnastics at the elite level is basically a full time job and they
should be justly compensated. Training for the glory of sport alone is nice
in theory but it's hard to eat. As Scott Keswick said (and yes *I* am quoting
something Scott said in a positive manor so there ) "I use this money [his
USAG "training fund"] to live. ... I have rent to pay and a food to put on
the table"

This is, of course, another area where NCAA gymnasts suffer. If they are
competing or *ever* want to compete in college gymnastics they can't take
*any* money and that includes training stipends. Of course this only applies
to US athletes apparently since Canadian National team members regularly come
from state supported athletic programs (and personal financial wins) to
compete in our NCAA program ... but that's another thread (not a CAN bash
either since their gymnasts are often the best the NCAA has to offer).

-Susan

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Oct 1994 14:46:55 -0500
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Gymnasts and Money

>This is, of course, another area where NCAA gymnasts suffer. If they are
competing or *ever* want to compete in college gymnastics they can't take
*any* money and that includes training stipends. Of course this only applies
to US athletes apparently

It seems to apply to US only, as at least one former Chinese athlete competed
in the NCAA. Also, the Ukrainian girls (Kalinina, Lysenko, Stobchatayaia)
who were offered scholarships to the U of Maryland were supported by the
state in the years they trained.

Mara

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Oct 1994 22:59:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: ***@netcom.com
Subject: Henrich subject on "Today" (fwd)

{...}

> Our sport is in danger of becomming as bad as tennis, where
> the athletes cannot financially afford to skip a month because they'll
> loose out on appearance fees and prize money.


What prize money ???!!!???
The tennis brats get it but I sure dont see gymnasts get any money.
OK Cathye got money for feminine productc ads and Mary Lou made bux
off of Cerial and Eveready batteries.
Too bad they replaced her with a pink bunny...


------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Oct 1994 12:27:04 -0500 (EST)
From: ***@minerva.cis.yale.edu
Subject: I'm back

Hi all!

I came back from my trip to discover my mailbox has been locked because I
got too much mail, so I suppose mail has gotten bounced? If it has,
that's why. I'm in the process of cleaning it out. I don't know how few
messages I have to have for them to unlock it again.

:)
Adriana

"There may not be a heaven, but somewhere there's a San Francisco."

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Oct 1994 11:11:19 -0500
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Levinson retires

Don't know if this is old news--don't follow rhythmic--but:
Tamara Levinson retired.

Caleb.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 30 Oct 1994 16:21:24 -0500
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Levinson retires

>>Don't know if this is old news--don't follow rhythmic--but:
Tamara Levinson retired.<<

Actually she did it very suddenly ... essentially just walking out of the gym
one day. I didn't want to mention it in case she changed her mind. This was
back in early August (right after the USOF I believe) and despite the fact
that she had already qualified into Paris Worlds in November and was
scheduled for Goodwill in August.

-Susan

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Oct 1994 19:03:13 -0400 (EDT)
From: ***@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Subject: Nemov (esp. for Susan :) )

Hi everyone. Sovetsky Sport recently ran an interview with Aleksei Nemov,
so I thought I'd pass it along. (It doesn't say anything about Dortmund,
though. I guess we'll have to wait and see...)

Beth

Aleksei Nemov: ROUND LAKE IS A PRISON, BUT I LIKE IT. (By Natalia Kalugina,
Sovetsky Sport, Oct. 15, p. 3. Translated by Beth Squires:) The appearance of
the handsome Alyosha Nemov from Togliatti did not cause a sensation among
gymnastics people. It was too well known that Yevgeny Nikolko had found a
talented pupil and was grooming him. Rather, what caused a sensation was that,
after shining a couple of times and winning a name for himself even abroad,
Nemov disappeared. For all of last year he didn't compete in a single
competition [I don't think this is info is correct, but it's what the Russian
says].
Coaches nodded their heads compassionately:
"We understand. Growing pains..."
And then, sighing, they added, "If only he could survive them! Not
everyone succeeds in coming back."
Most likely they were remembering their own pupils (who hasn't had to go
through this?!) - champions who never materialized.
But we wouldn't be doing this interview if Aleksei Nemov had not come
back. And in wonderful style. He won no more and no less than four gold medals
at the Goodwill Games in St. Petersburg! More than any other participant in
those Games. By the way, remember that Vitaly Shcherbo also started out that
way.
We met at the warmup gym at Petersburg's sports complex.
Question. - Well, Alyosha, should I congratulate the new leader of the
Russian team?
Answer. - Not just yet. How shall I explain it? I am not yet the leader.
And I'm not ready to be. I haven't gotten used to this position. There's
Alyosha Voropayev and Grisha Misyutin. Remember, they're Olympic champions.
They can't be touched. That's how I regard them. For me they are legends. Even
though we train in the same gym.
Q. - All right. Then let the rising star describe how he got to this point
in life. How can one overtake champions?
A. - For me, it all began when my mother got tired of my mischievousness,
and she decided that I should do gymnastics. I myself, naturally, would have
rather played soccer or hockey. But she brought me to the gym and said, "You
will work out!" There was a section at the Volga Automotive Plant's club in our
city, Togliatti. I ended up with good coaches - Aleksandr Anverovich Musayev
and Irina Ivanovna Shestakovaya. And in third grade I ended up with Yevgeny
Grigoryevich Nikolko. We've been together ever since. Then I began to be
invited to trade-union training camps at Krylatskoye. After that Andrianov
invited me to join his junior team. At Round Lake. I've been there since I was
14.
Q. - To have ended up at Round Lake, which has been christened "the place
where champions are produced," you must mave made a very brilliant showing of
yourself.
A. - In 1990 I performed in the schoolchildren's Spartakiada in Minsk. I
totally missed my vault. Zero points. But the rest of the apparatus went fine.
I guess the officials liked me.
Q. - Everyone immediately began talking about you. Don't take this as a
compliment [note - it really says this! But maybe what she means is, "don't let
this go to your head"], but it's a fact that rarely in men's gymnastics is it
possible to find such a successful combination of physical qualities and the
possession of such a vast technical arsenal. Did you start winning right away?
A. - No. There weren't any particular victories. There was more talk. I
became European Junior Champion in the team event. That was in Arezzo. Then the
USSR broke up. And half the team turned into foreigners. I suddenly ended up in
the senior division. I went to the World Championships in Birmingham. I wanted
to shine so badly. I tried to stick all my landings. But I didn't.
Q. - After that, no one saw you anywhere for a year. Did you have a
psychological "breakdown"?
A. - Of course, I suffered a great deal because of those World
Championships. But there was no "breakdown." I began to grow. And I couldn't
take the workload. My back hurt like hell. No one could understand why. I was
at the Central Institute for Traumatology and Orthopedics for about a month.
Then I began to recover.
Q. - What was your first competition after your illness?
A. - The Blume Cup in Spain [Joaquim Bl Memorial]. I took second place.
Vitaly Shcherbo was first.
Q. - You said that you "suddenly" ended up in the senior division. Dod you
feel young and inexperienced?
A. - It wasn't that. It was just that if everyone who had been in the
Olympics had continued to perform for Russia, I'd still be on the junior team.
My age allowed me to perform as a senior, so that was that.
Q. - When you were a junior, Round Lake was a "gymnastics preserve." Now,
in order to earn money, tourists are allowed there. Has anything changed for
you from a professional standpoint?
A. - From a professional standpoint, nothing has changed. We train the
same as we did before. But certainly some things have changed in life at the
training center. Before, we could walk around in the woods or on the grounds;
you could even walk around at night. Now that makes us uneasy.
Q. - Vitaly Shcherbo once complained that the members of the training camp
were locked up at Round Lake, as if it were a prison. Do you experience those
feelings?
A. - That's a question that everyone is arguing about today. To spend your
time at training camps or to train at home according to your own plan. Let them
argue. Here's what I say: Sometimes I want to go home so badly I want to cry. A
least to see my mother for just a day. But if I want to achieve good results,
I'll be at the training camps, no matter what it costs me. Workouts at home
make you weaker. There, there is always a choice: hang out with your friends or
train. At Round Lake there is no choice. So from a professional standpoint,
such seclusion is necessary for me.
Q. - Do you consider yourself a professional?
A. - In general I'd say "yes."

[End of interview. Translator's question: Why does Nemov seem to think Misyutin
is a member of the Russian team?!]

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Oct 1994 16:50:03 -0700 (MST)
From: ***@asu.edu
Subject: Nemov (esp. for Susan :) )

>Translator's question: Why does Nemov seem to think that Misyutin is a
>member of the Russian team?

Doesn't Misyutin still train at Krugloye? Maybe that's what he meant,
about Misyutin and Vorpayev being his idols and being in the gym with
them everyday. But Misyutin competing for Russia would certainly raise a
few eyebrows...

Amanda

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Oct 1994 22:02:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: ***@minerva.cis.yale.edu
Subject: prestigous meets (poll)

DTB & Chunichi easy

:)
Adriana


------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Oct 1994 13:26:23 -0400
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Trivia Answers-Romanian Gym

#1 Beth
#2 Adriana
#3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 Brett
#9, #10 & Bonus question Amanda

1. What is Nadia Comaneci's middle name?

Elena

2. How many times has Romania been the World Team Champion?

Twice, both time the women, Fort Worth '79 and Rotterdam '87.

3. Who was the only female gymnast to compete in all 4 event finals at the
83 worlds?

Lavinia Agache, 2nd v,ub 3rd bb, 4th fx...

4. (a) Who gave up her spot in the 84 olympic bars final so that agache
could have a last shot at a medal?

Laura Cutina

(b) Who was the highest placing romanian in that final?

Mihaela Stanulet, 4th

5. Who tumbled 9 1/2 twists in her optional floor in the mid-80's (this
doesnt include a jump-full)?

Eugenia Golea, 87 dtb (pike full in, 1 1/2 thru to double full, h
eadspring, ro ff, ff, double full, triple full dismount)

6. Which Adrian threw 2 double doubles at indianapolis?

Adrian Gal

7. When was the last Olympics a Romanian did not win womens fx?

'76

8. Which Romanian woman was the "Queen of 4th Place" (86 goodwill, 88
olympics, 89 euros)?

Gabriela Potorac

9. Who are the only Romanians to have won world titles on the vault?

Lavinia Milosovici and Dumitrita Turner

10. Who have been AA European Champions for Romania (both Sr & Jr)?

Junior Champs: Ecaterina Szabo (twice), Vanda Hadarean, Alexandea
Marinescu. Senior Champs: Comaneci (three times), Silivas, Gogean

Bonus: Where are the Donald Duck barettes?

Holland

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 05:04:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: ***@delphi.com
Subject: World Team

Date: Tue, 18 Oct 1994 23:57:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: ***@tiger.hsc.edu
Subject: Trials

>I hate to ask this, but what is wrong with the USA Gymnastics sending
>the best possible team to World's? I agree that the decision making process
>is not fair, but when the federation is put on the spot later asking
>why it didn't win, who is to blame?

An interesting point of view. So let me understand this. If we don't win, we
are going to "blame" someone. Hmmmm. And this justifies a decision making
process that you admit is unfair to the athletes. Hmmmm. So, if the USGA is
going to get this "blame", it's permitable to shaft other athletes.
I would also like to know how the USGA (or anyone for that matter) can read
the future well enough to know that this is indeed our strongest team? I am
a little sick and tired of hearing people, most notably the USGA, second
guess a selection process that was designed to be fair and select the best
athletes. Doesn't anyone remember any of the times that great athletes,
favorites for medals, went to meets and bombed or got injured? Szabo in '84,
Kasamatsu in '76, etc.. You can't predict these things, all the people
involved in the selection procedure are just kidding themselves if they
think otherwise, so why not give the competitions back to the athletes and
let THEM worry about winning and losing? What exactly is at stake here that
is so important that we have to manipulate the team selection and be damned
unfair to some athlete who has worked a lifetime to get a shot at this
chance? This is amature sports, isn't it? As I recall, wasn't Mary Lou a
young unknown that got the nod for her first American Cup victory when a
team mate (Diane Durham) got injured? Injuries or situations like Shannon's
are just the kind of opportunity that starts a career off for someone new,
like the gymnasts who are now alternates for this team now that Shannon has
been placed on it. I am sick of all the non-competitors stepping in and
changing the rules on the competitors, after the competition, just to suit
their own agenda. I think people should sit down and think about what kind
of message we are sending out to our young people with our actions.

Win at all costs, even if you have to bend the rules?

Real nice, builds character.

>There are quite a few issues that need to be addressed here, not the least
>of which is fairness, to the gymnasts, to their coaches, to everyone
>involved.

>Julius

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 10:07:30 -0800 (PST)
From: ***@netcom.com
Subject: World Team

LOCK & LOAD !
DUCK !


>
> >I hate to ask this, but what is wrong with the USA Gymnastics sending
> >the best possible team to World's? I agree that the decision making process
> >is not fair, but when the federation is put on the spot later asking
> >why it didn't win, who is to blame?
>
> An interesting point of view. So let me understand this. If we don't win, we
> are going to "blame" someone. Hmmmm. And this justifies a decision making
> process that you admit is unfair to the athletes. Hmmmm. So, if the USGA is
> going to get this "blame", it's permitable to shaft other athletes.

Uh, wait a sec here... Why does ANYBODY need to be blamed ?
Last I knew sports was a crapshoot !
When sports becomes predictable, then I always suspect a "FIX" and last *I* ever
heard, fixing sports was illegal !

Sports is SUPPOSED to be unpredictable !
Thats the whole (*^%$#@ point !

> I would also like to know how the USGA (or anyone for that matter) can read
> the future well enough to know that this is indeed our strongest team?

Depends on whether they got their crystal ball back from the hock shoppe!
I thinks i6ts about time we make it clear to the USGF that they are not serving
their athletes as they should. I mean that is their real purpose isnt it ?

Well they have been screwing over their older athletes for years, I guess they
decided to screw the kids now.

> I am a little sick and tired of hearing people, most notably the USGA, second
> guess a selection process that was designed to be fair and select the best
> athletes. Doesn't anyone remember any of the times that great athletes,
> favorites for medals, went to meets and bombed or got injured? Szabo in '84,
> Kasamatsu in '76, etc.. You can't predict these things, all the people
> involved in the selection procedure are just kidding themselves if they
> think otherwise, so why not give the competitions back to the athletes and
> let THEM worry about winning and losing? What exactly is at stake here that
> is so important that we have to manipulate the team selection and be damned
> unfair to some athlete who has worked a lifetime to get a shot at this
> chance? This is amature sports, isn't it? As I recall, wasn't Mary Lou a
> young unknown that got the nod for her first American Cup victory when a
> team mate (Diane Durham) got injured? Injuries or situations like Shannon's
> are just the kind of opportunity that starts a career off for someone new,
> like the gymnasts who are now alternates for this team now that Shannon has
> been placed on it. I am sick of all the non-competitors stepping in and
> changing the rules on the competitors, after the competition, just to suit
> their own agenda. I think people should sit down and think about what kind
> of message we are sending out to our young people with our actions.

I notice that after years of yelling abouyt other countries sending pros to the
olympics, we have begun doing the same. Looks like the USGF is about to get
on the same band wagon. I wonder if we could hire Tanya Hardin to do a job on
USGF officails.....

> Win at all costs, even if you have to bend the rules?
>
> Real nice, builds character.

Just like Nancy & Tanya -eh ?
Reminds me of the parent who beat up their kids when their little league teams
fail to win.

Make me wanna go puke ! Makes me ashamed knowing the USGF controls gymnastics
in this country.

> >There are quite a few issues that need to be addressed here, not the least
> >of which is fairness, to the gymnasts, to their coaches, to everyone
> >involved.
>
> >Julius

TRUE ! SO TRUE !

-texx

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 31 Oct 1994 14:47:48 -0500
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: World Team

As for the USAG arbitrarily picking team members ... I really would have no
problem with it if they didn't *pretend* to have an objective trials system.
To tell a girl/boy that if they finish in such and such a spot they are on
and the team and then pull them later for a bigger name is pretty cruel.

We are the only country in the top of the gym world that has a definitive (or
supposedly definitive) trial system. I think that a head coach (like Belu or
Arkaev) that sees the kids every day in training *knows* who's the strongest
and who should make up the team. Someone who just "had a good day," for
example, wouldn't (and shouldn't IMHO) make the team. These coaches know
their individual personality ticks, strengths, and weaknesses.

Of course with our widespread club system this wouldn't really work as every
coach thinks their kid should be on the team. I'm not sure what the truly
best and most fair way to select a team would be but I still insist that the
USAG has an obligation to their sponsors, the USOC, and the gymnastics
community at large to put the best possible team forward. I know that I
always want to see the best possible gymnasts (and if you think that someone
like Marylou was *really* a fairy tale story then I've got some might fine
swamp land in FL you might be interested in) in World competition - anything
less cheapens the overall level of the meet. When the US team wins medals in
the World arena it helps *all* gymnastics in this country ... which is
kinda' the point isn't it?

-Susan

------------------------------

End of gymn Digest
******************************