Thu, 1 Dec 94 Volume 3 :
*DORTMOND VIDEOS FOR SALE*
Address request for Nissen
Australia and World's
Dortmond worlds report #1 (2 msgs)
Dortmond Worlds Report #2 (3 msgs)
Dortmund - US Women
Dortmund - Women's Finals (2 msgs)
JPEG Site Address Change
request for help...
Romanian Juniors Info
Soviet forced pregnancy accusation (3 msgs)
Worlds (3 msgs)
This is a digest of the firstname.lastname@example.org mailing list.
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 94 7:52:43 18000
Subject: *DORTMOND VIDEOS FOR SALE*
I brought my camcorder along with me to Dortmond and was once again
able to tape 8 or 9 hours of gymnastics.I need to make some extra
money to pay for gym expenses for winter nationals(if I qualify) and
this was the easiest way .I was extremely pleased.
with the way they turned out.I also included some partial sets in the
video.I guess it's better to see some of the routine than none at
all.I'm not even sure that the meet will be televised.I usually concentrated
on 2 teams during each session,but usually was able to get a few of
the gymnast from the other rotations.Below are the sessions and prices.
MEN'S TEAM PRELIMS-$30 (two tapes)
WOMEN'S TEAM PRELIMS-$30 (two tapes)
MEN'S TEAM FINALS-$15 (one tape)
WOMEN'S TEAM FINALS-$15 (one tape)
Also add $2 PER session for shipping and handling.I'll be sending the
videos priority mail.
If you have any questions,don't hesitate to drop me a line.I've got a
Winter National qualifier here in Tallahassee next weekend,so I can
answer your ?'s then.If you want to order now my NEW address is:
Talk to you soon,
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 94 10:44 PST
underrated forgotten gymnast of the week: Irina Baraksanova
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 1994 17:35:53 -0500
Subject: Address request for Nissen
One of or local schools has give my gym a set of Nissen men's parallel bars.
They are in excellent condition, with the exception that the spin locks are
missing. Can someone provide me with an address or telephone # for which I may
contact the manufacturer. We are in a startup phase, and I have not had a lot of
experience in ordering gymnastics equipment.
Thanks in advance for any help.
Date: Mon, 28 Nov 1994 09:13:08 +1000
Subject: Australia and World's
I had the opportunity to stay in the same hotel with the Australian coaches
and the Great Britian gymnastics teams, so ...
Regarding the Australia situation, they have plenty of women and men for a
world championship team, and had one put together. The coach for the men's
was explaining to me that he and the women's coach came to world's to
discuss the selection process for getting into the championships.
Because this was a team event only they selected the teams from how they
placed their regional championships. Australia is not a part of any of the
regional championships, and thus did not have an opportunity to qualify.
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 94 20:25:09 EST
Subject: Dortmond worlds report #1
Hello all.I got back from Dortmond on Monday completely exhausted.I
made it back home for Thanksgiving,so I thought I would write a short report.
It will be my usual rambling,so please bear with me.
-Andrea Molnar tore her acl on floor while performing a triple
full.Also a male french gymnast broke his kneecap on vault.
-Dominique looked fantastic and added a HIGH free hip reverse hect on
bars.She left out two layouts on beam in prelims but other than that hit
-Shannon only did compulsories.Everything went smoothly until bars.She
was attempting the toe on front half dismount,but didn't get her feet on the
bar.She took an extra swing and giant then did the dismount cleanly.When her score was flashed(9.6 something or other) the crowd booed quite loudly and it went onfor about five minutes.
-Amy Chow fell 7 times in prelims,but recouped and hit all her
routines in finals.JC phelps did a fantastic job hitting ALL of her routines.Larissa fell on comp bars(her free hip turned into a free hip geinger!) and was shakey on optional beam both days.
-The romanians were the clear and deserving winners.Russia watered
down their sets and also had to count a fall on beam.Perhaps the results might have been different had Svetlanta Ivanova not been injured.The US had a few minor breaks,but no falls and finished 2nd.Ukraine and Belarus lacked depth which prevented them from medaling.China was great on bars and beam,but a little weak on the other apparatus.Mo looked great and scored 9.9 on floor in finals.
-There weren't too many new skills with the exception of a full
twisting reverse hect to a geinger.Kinda ugly,but exciting nonetheless.
-Ezster Ovary came out of retirement and competed for Hungary.She had
a few breaks,but was in much better shape than she was before.
-The american men did better than they had done atprevious worlds,but
still only finished 9th.Kip Simons compulsory rings were SUPER!
more later if I'm not asleep.
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 1994 16:38:03 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Dortmond worlds report #1
> -Dominique looked fantastic and added a HIGH free hip reverse hect on
> bars.She le
Trivia: a free hip reverse hecht is called a "Hindorff" after the east
German (Silvia her first name?) and is an "E".
> s and also had to count a fall on beam.Perhaps the results might have
> been differ
> ent had Svetlanta Ivanova not been injured.
Of course, then you'd have to factor in what might have happened had
Miller competed too.
> -There weren't too many new skills with the exception
of a full > twisting reverse
> hect to a geinger.Kinda ugly,but exciting nonetheless.
Was this in women's? (i.e. a Shushunova to Gienger?)
> -Ezster Ovary came out of retirement and competed for Hungary.She had
> a few break
> s,but was in much better shape than she was before.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Maybe there *is* hope for Zmeskal and Boginskaya.
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 94 10:01:37 18000
Subject: Dortmond Worlds Report #2
Before I leave for Kissimmee...
-Scherbo was in the best shape I've seen since Barcelona.Did the same
sets as in Brisbane,but looked much sharper.
-Elena Piskun was the best all around gymnast there(IMHO).She's really
worked on cleaning up her form.She had a fall on beam(flip flop
full) and changed her passes on floor(whip through to triple full,two
and one half twist punch front layout,piked full in.)Nailed her vaults
and was undercored.
-Nadia and Bart are engaged.They both sat in front of me at the
competition.Very nice people.
-I had an interesting run in with one of the US men's team members.He
asked me if I was going to write another article for IG.I said
probably not and asked if he liked my last one.He then said "No,it was
pretty bad" in a very hostile way.I later found out that he told
someone that the all arounders did very well at Brisbane and I
"trashed" them in my article.Wrong on BOTH counts!(John fell
twice,Chainey once,Mihai three,and I lost count with Scott.Did anyone
else out there think that I trashed them?)I'll get over the
-The chinese men did extremely well and deserved the gold.Li Jing
showed up and was used pretty early in the lineup.
-The tour was a lot of fun as usual.I met up with a few
gymners(beth,susan,nancy,and mara.)We stayed in Amsterdam for 2 and a
half days then headed over to D0ortmond for the competition.
-Shannon and Steve left Germany the day after compulsories.
That's all I can think of.More next week.Hope everyone had a nice
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 94 22:51:00 UTC
Subject: Dortmond Worlds Report #2
>-I had an interesting run in with one of the US men's team members...he
>told someone that the all arounders did very well at Brisbane and I
>"trashed" them in my article...Did anyone else out there think that I
No, Billy didn't trash the US men. He simply said, "...the all-arounders
continued the Americans' post-1984 slump" [which is quite true, IMO]. The
team member who took offense with that statement should consider this: from
1976 to 1984, the US men won 8 individual Olympic medals, 9 individual World
medals, an Olympic team gold, and a World team bronze. In contrast, since
1985 they have won only 1 individual Olympic medal and 1 individual World
medal. In Brisbane, 3 US men qualified for event finals (which isn't bad),
but one must remember that 2 of these qualifiers were specialists. Umphrey
was the only AA'er to qualify. If the US AA'ers had performed "very well"
then why didn't Keswick, Roethlisberger and Bagiu also qualify for EF?
Let's face it, they didn't perform very well in Brisbane and haven't for the
past 10 years.
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 1994 14:05:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Dortmond Worlds Report #2
> -I had an interesting run in with one of the US men's team members.He
> asked me if I was going to write another article for IG.I said
> probably not and asked if he liked my last one.He then said "No,it was
> pretty bad" in a very hostile way.I later found out that he told
> someone that the all arounders did very well at Brisbane and I
> "trashed" them in my article.Wrong on BOTH counts!(John fell
> twice,Chainey once,Mihai three,and I lost count with Scott.Did anyone
> else out there think that I trashed them?)I'll get over the
> hurt somehow...
Are we doing better tyhan we were in 84 ?
Are we doing the same as 84 ?
Are we doing worse than 84 ?
Should you take his complaint seriously ?
I DONT think so !
Get over it and write the guy off as "sour grapes"
Right now USA mens gymn sux bigtime !
Its the truth and if he cant cope, well its tough tortillas !
So where is your school located ?
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 1994 15:11:33 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Dortmund - US Women
Here's how the US women did individually in the team finals. I found it
in the USAG section on Delphi, and am too lazy to add them up. :)
V UB B FX
Dominique Dawes 9.887 9.825 9.837 9.850
Kerri Strug 9.812 9.675 9.700 9.825
Amanda Borden 9.587 9.725 9.625 9.812
Amy Chow 9.687 9.375 9.712 9.687
Jaycee Phelps 9.650 9.625 9.587 9.637
Larissa Fontaine 9.825 9.662 9.300 9.625
Date: Mon, 21 Nov 94 23:42:00 UTC
Subject: Dortmund - Women's Finals
>Anybody knows what the Russian team is?
Dina Kochetkova, Svetlana Khorkina, Oksana Fabrichnova, Eugenia Roschina,
Elena Grosheva, Natalia Ivanova, & Elena Lebedeva. The last 3 competed at
this year's Jr. Europeans.
>We need those Gymners who went to Dortmund to tell us the details quick!
Agreed! Did Eurosport cover this competition?
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 94 10:49:10 GMT
Subject: Dortmund - Women's Finals
> Agreed! Did Eurosport cover this competition?
Not a sausage. Absolutely no coverage of Dortmund Worlds in any of
the British TV channels or European satellite channels. I haven't
seen anything... I'm hoping for some coverage on the local German
channels that I could get hold of... Don't know if there's any there...
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 94 23:28:26 GMT
Subject: Dortmund questions
Thank you so much Beth for all the inside stories at Dortmund! It was all
very interesting! I like your descriptions on the Russians! I heard that
the Romanians, in contrast, were very much to themselves. Did you get to
contact any of them? How about the others such as Piskoun, Podkopayeva,
etc.? And how about the Chinese men, what was their reaction to winning
the Gold? What were the reactions of the Romanian girls when the wrong
anthem was played? Did they look happy winning the team gold? (Did Gina
Sorry I've got so many questions... anybody who feels like answering them
Thank you so much.
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 1994 17:40:08 -0500 (EST)
Sherwin wrote me and asked about Gogean's fall on beam during the
optionals portion of the qualifying. She was going for her layout series and as
her foot landed on the first layout, it slipped off the beam and she fell
backward, hitting her back and her head HARD on the beam. She fell off, quite
dazed, and I thought she might even have a concussion. But she got back up, did
a leap or something, and then Octavian Belu just yelled at her to get down. The
Romanians didn't need her score to stay in the lead, and I figure he wanted to
make sure she was okay. She scored a 7-something, which was a bit ridiculous,
since she only did about a third of her routine. As Susan put it, the judges
must have been marking her out of a 21! But the score was dropped anyway, and
Gina seemed to be fine. She went ahead to compete floor and nailed everything.
Hategan had an ankle sprain early in the week and did not do compulsories.
I thought she was out for the entire competition, but she DID do optionals (she
ended up anchoring on beam because of Gina's fall).
Sherwin also asked why some of the better Romanians were not on the team.
The story I heard was that it was a political thing: the team had to include at
least one (maybe more?) girl(s) from the Bucharest team; it couldn't be all
I forgot to mention this in my other post. Even though the Romanians were
favored to win, the meet organizers seemed unprepared for this and played the
wrong Romanian anthem during the award ceremony! I think it was one of the old
communist ones. After some confusion, someone found a tape of the correct
anthem, and the award ceremony was repeated. This more or less epitomizes how
well the meet was organized! (Another problem was that the organizers printed
the tickets and then remodeled the arena, so many people - myself included -
ended up with nonexistent seats! Naturally, there were no ushers the first few
days to sort this out, so people basically sat wherever they wanted!).
Someone else wrote and asked about Kerri Strug. She performed well, but
was a bit tentative on bars. In optional qualifying she also scooted out of
bounds on floor, since she landed rather stiff-legged. But she was very solid
in finals, and she got a 9.8-something on floor. I still don't think that
routine suits her, but I guess the judges disagreed.
I know Billy mentioned Shannon's compulsory bars and how her foot slipped
off the bar as she was going for her dismount. If I remember right, she got a
9.525, which many people I've talked to said is impossible. The deduction
should have been between .5 and .9. As Billy said, the whole arena booed for
about five minutes. In a press release issued later, Steve Nunno said only the
Russians were booing! The only Russians I saw in the arena at that time were
the women's team, but even if the entire delegation had been there, they
couldn't have made that much noise! I think the crowd was predominantly German.
Anyway, the score created such a furor that there was an entire press
conference on it the next day. Jackie Fie said the judges took the mandatory .3
for an extra swing and that was it. In my opinion, it was just another case of
blatant cheating (certainly not Shannon's fault; I feel bad for her). There
were other impossible scores in the meet (Gina's beam, for example), but this
one attracted the most attention.
Someone (Sherwin?) asked about Fabrichnova. I think she might have had
some sort of ankle injury. They announced her on floor in optionals qualifying,
but she didn't compete. The Russians were going to qualify anyway, so I think
Arkaev was resting her. She DID do floor in finals, but I don't remember too
much of the routine since I was trying to take pictures of her. I just remember
that I didn't care for it too much. She is such a pretty gymnast, and a
classical routine would suit her much better, in my opinion. She seems to be a
happy girl, and was always extremely friendly and full of smiles whenever we
saw her. She and Dina were always together; Dina seemed a lot more shy and
reserved than Oksana, but was also very nice. I don't remember seeing her smile
much though. Grosheva is quite a character. She was a little social butterfly
during the banquet, and she reminded me of Shushunova in terms of sense of
humor. I was taking a picture of her and Misyutin, and she took his beer away
and hid it behind her back. It was really cute. Khorkina is also really nice,
and was quite a chatterbox when John Crumlish interviewed her. She said she was
too fat (!) in Brisbane and had tried very hard to slim down for Dortmund. As
she was saying this, she slid her hand along her hip and thigh and struck a
model-type pose. She also said one of her favorite hobbies is eating. As for
her new hairstyle, she said she just wanted a change. She seems very modest. A
girl on the tour told her she was pretty, and she sort of rolled her eyes and
shook her head, saying she wasn't satisfied with her looks at all.
A bit of gossip: Lyudmila Stobchataya (who was not there) is dating
Vladimir Shamenko of the Ukrainian men's team. A German photographer told me
they were married, but when I asked Rustam Sharipov about this, he burst out
laughing and said that they were just dating. He also confirmed that Lysenko
and Kalinina have retired but DO want to come to the States for college.
Lyudmila is still working out, but mainly to be with Shamenko.
I gues I've strayed from my topic of "Gogean," but I keep remembering more
things. Belenky is a really funny guy. Literally every time we saw him he said
he was tired and/or hungry. He gave us a really nice interview, telling us,
among other things, that he has used some of his money to buy apartments in
Vladimir, Russia for his mother, older sister and grandparents. He did this
because Vladimir is a safe place, whereas Baku is basically a war zone, and he
wanted his family to be safe. In response to a question, he denied that any of
his relatives is a rabbi. He was able to get German citizenship so quickly
because his grandfather is German.
By contrast, when we asked Shcherbo if he helped out his Belarusian
teammates financially, he got a bit indignant and said, "of course not, why
should I?" Aside from that comment, he was very pleasant and even refused to
accept our compliment that he looked in great shape!
More later, if I remember anything else or if anyone has specific
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 94 20:20:49 PST
Subject: Gymnast Address
Could you please forward this to the gymn list. I'm not sure of the address.
My name is Michelle. I am 13 years old and train at Puget Sound
School of Gymnastics. I am training to qualify as an elite gymnast this
I have a problem that someone might be able to help me with. I have a
school project where I am to write to someone famous, from another
country. I want to write to Lila Potcopieva (something like that).
Can anyone help me find the address. I would like to know the correct
spelling of her name, the country she competes for (Ukraine, I think)
and hopfully an address or someway to contact her by mail. This is
very important to me and I'm not sure where to start. Plus the project
is due to be completed soon.
Thank you very much.
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 1994 17:05:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: JPEG Site Address Change
Beginning tomorrow, Nov. 24, the gymnastics JPEGs and GIFs will be
ftp.netcom.com in pub/ta/talloo/gifs
and will revert back to the current subdirectory (pub/talloo/gifs) on
Date: Tue, 22 Nov 1994 13:19:20 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Men's NCAA
This is a general letter to the group:
Does anyone have any information concerning the status of Men's NCAA
Div I gymnastics? D II,III, club tems have their own nationals, but
they are not NCAA sponsored.
Ron? Anyone? The gymnastics club at the U of Chicago is vitally interested.
We know women's gymnastics will not likely be dropped at any collegiate level
(though individual schools ARE dropping programs.)
P.S. See everyone after Thanksgiving (no net access).
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 1994 18:57:57 PST
Subject: request for help...
Long time no see.
I shipped along the Ukraine Federation address for Michelle. For anyone
else who's interested, it's:
Ukrainian Gymnastics Federation
42 Esplanadna Street
If you need other addresses, you can get a printed sheet from the Hall of
Fame (if you wanna tangle with Susan <g>) or IG, or just email me. I
usually have the file around.
I'd add to Billy's posts about worlds, but he pretty much hit the main
points. Coverage will be in January and February IG issues.
Date: Thu, 24 Nov 94 11:32:27 GMT
Subject: Romanian Juniors Info
Here's some info about some of the top Romanian Juniors:
Corina Ungureanu b. 29th Aug 1980 1.38m 29kg
Mirela Tugurlan b. 4th Apr 1980 1.36m 28kg
Claudia Presacan b. 28th Dec 1979 1.41m 30kg
Monica Zahiu b. 3rd Nov 1982 1.40m 29kg
Alexandra Marinescu b. (13 years old) 1.38m 28kg
Aurelia Gheba b. 20th Oct 1981 1.34m 27kg
Camelia Andronic b. 22nd Oct 1980 1.37m 28kg
Sorry I haven't got the most important bit of info (Marinescu's birthday).
Those weights are so similar!
Date: Sat, 26 Nov 1994 13:43:57 GMT
Subject: Soviet forced pregnancy accusation
I'm probably twenty-four hours behind the field in picking this news
item up, but just in case it hasn't crossed the Atlantic yet, I thought
I'd pass on the following report in today's (saturday) Daily Telegraph
"...The world of gymnastics has been taken aback by the accusations of
a competitor from the former Soviet Union that she was forced by coaches
to become pregnant then have an abortion as an alternative to taking
Olga Kovalenko, who under her maiden name Karaseva was a team gold
medallist at the 1968 Mexico Olympics, said on German television: "The
doctors told us the body of a pregnant woman produced more male hormones
and could therefore become stronger."
Kovalenko, now 44, broke down as she said she became pregnant by her boyfriend
and had an abortion after 10 weeks. "If I had refused I would not have
been allowed to go to the games."
First hints of benefits to be gained from pregnancy came at the 1956 Melbourne
Games when it emerged that 10 of 26 Soviet women medallists were pregnant..."
This isn't the first time I've heard this suggestion. The BBC series "More
Than A Game" broadcast it a year or so back, though without a specific
connection to gymnastics. The following thoughts occur to me:
i) It's no use anyone trying to pretend this didn't happen. Not any more.
You do not go on tv and make that kind of allegation if it isn't true.
ii) Now the dam's broken, there'll probably be quite a bit more to come.
The fact is that, as a system, Soviet sport didn't give a damn for its
individual competitors. I'm sure many - and I hope most - coaches on the
ground had a different attitude. But they didn't set policy. If you want
confirmation of the attitudes of those who did, check out Olga Korbut's
biography where she says how the winners of meets were known in advance.
iii) Despite the above, I'm still dubious forced pregnancies would have
been much help in gymnastics. Indeed, considering how average ages and body
sizes have come down since '68, I doubt they've been a realistic possibility
for the last decade and a half. Of course, this raises the question of what
else may have been going on. Anabolics? Unlikely: "heavy" muscles are wrong
for the sport. Testosterone? Maybe.
iv) I also think (hope?) the use of forced pregnancies may have died out
pretty quickly because neither Olga Korbut (in her "I despise everybody"
autobio) or Elena Mukhina (who dumped hard on her coach in "More Than A
Game") or Elena Shushunova (who, I gather, also attacked the system a while
back) mentioned anything about it. Given how candid they were being on
everything else, why hold back on this...if it was still happening in their
time. QED, the system may have dropped the idea back in the sixties.
v) Brace yourself everybody. Dumping on gymnastics is one of the press's
favourite sports (here in the UK it's a bit behind "Sack England's Soccer
Coach", but it's still well up there. Even the Christy Henrich tragedy
crossed the Atlantic with banner headlines). And these, BTW, are the same
papers who have just given zero coverage to Dortmund. From what you guys
say, it's much the same on the other side of the pond.
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 1994 17:35:42 GMT
Subject: Soviet forced pregnancy accusation
I don't know how much the American papers are saying on this story, but
I thought I better let you know there has been another report on the
Karaseva story here. The source is "The Sunday Times" (London). Interestingly,
(ominously?) yesterday's story was in the sports section. Today's is in
the World News. For those unfamiliar with the UK press, I should point out
that the Times and Telegraph groups are probably the most authoritative
and respected: i.e. reporting is pretty judicious and avoids the
sensationalist. I haven't seen other papers' coverage but, if there is any,
(and the Telegraph and Times are usually the only papers who cover
gymnastics at all) it is likely to be less restrained and more in the
"gymnastics is bad for your kids" tradition.
BTW everybody, don't think I'm enjoying posting this stuff. It's just that
I reckon you'll want to know what's being written however disturbing it is.
Please don't shoot (or flame) the messenger!
Title: Doctors confirm gymnasts' secret
By-line: Tony Allen-Mills, Paris
"For years it was only a rumour. Last week, for the first time since successful
women athletes were suspected of manipulating pregnancies and abortions to
enhance their physical performance, a champion Soviet gymnast provided
confirmation of one of the most disturbing abuses in sport.
Olga Kovalenko, a gold medal winner at the 1968 Olympic games in Mexico,
confessed to German television that she had become pregnant and had an
abortion shortly before the competition to toughen her body and profit from
hormonal changes that enhanced her physical performance.
Kovalenko, who competed under her maiden name, Karaseva, claimed that the
practice was widespread among champion Soviet athletes during the 1970s. She
said girls as young as 14 were ordered to have sex with their coaches if
they had no steady boyfriend. In her own case, she added, "I was told that if
I refused I would not have been sent to the Games".
The potential benefits of the hormones produced in early pregnancy have long
been recognised by sports medicine specialists. A French expert, Dr.
Jean-Pierre de Mondenard, noted last week that during the first three months
the mother's body generates a natural surplus of red corpuscles rich in
These assist cardiac and lung performance and improve muscle capacity by up
to 30%. A pregnant woman also secretes increased amounts of progesterone, a
hormone that makes muscles more supple and joints more flexible.
Suspicion that women athletes from the former Soviet Union planned abortions
to coincide with important competitions first surfaced in 1956 at the
Melbourne Olympics, then eight years later in Tokyo. One estimate at the time
suggested that as many as 10 of 26 medal winners may have manipulated their
pregnancy. According to de Mondenard, no conclusive proof of abuse was ever
The issue surfaced again in the mid-1970s in an Italian swimming magazine,
Il Mondo del Nuoto, which accused Soviet and Scandinavian swimmers of resorting
to abortions. Soon after, a Swedish magazine, Aktuellt, published purported
confessions by a Swedish doctor and a Finnish masseur who said the practice was
commonplace, especially among athletes from what was then East Germany.
In 1988 a Swiss professor of gynaecology told a conference in Strasbourg that
women athletes "interrupt their pregnancy between the third and sixth month,
the principle being that sporting performance augments as long as the
pregnant woman doesn't gain weight"."
The only comment I want to add here (I added plenty yesterday) is that I
didn't like the title of this piece. Most of it refers to athletes in general;
not specifically gymnasts. So the title should read either "athletes' secret"
or "gymnast's secret" (i.e. gymnast singular, not plural).
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 1994 13:50:21 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Soviet forced pregnancy accusation
> I don't know how much the American papers are saying on this story,
It hit a few weeks ago and has long since been forgotten here in the USA.
> sensationalist. I haven't seen other papers' coverage but, if there is any,
> (and the Telegraph and Times are usually the only papers who cover
> gymnastics at all) it is likely to be less restrained and more in the
> "gymnastics is bad for your kids" tradition.
AGAIN ?!? (Groan ...)]
> BTW everybody, don't think I'm enjoying posting this stuff. It's just that
> I reckon you'll want to know what's being written however disturbing it is.
> Please don't shoot (or flame) the messenger!
Its good to know what is being said about our sport.
Remember one of the important rules of combat. KNOW your ENEMY !
That way you can deal with his attack when it hits.
Being taken by surprise is NOT fun !
Thanks for the "Heads up !"
> Title: Doctors confirm gymnasts' secret
> By-line: Tony Allen-Mills, Paris
> "For years it was only a rumour. Last week, for the first time since successful
> Kovalenko, who competed under her maiden name, Karaseva, claimed that the
> practice was widespread among champion Soviet athletes during the 1970s. She
> said girls as young as 14 were ordered to have sex with their coaches if
> they had no steady boyfriend. In her own case, she added, "I was told that if
> I refused I would not have been sent to the Games".
Man I bet "HARD COPY" would have LOVED this if it had happened here ?
Poor girls... what if the coach is ugly ?
I dont even want to think of what they did to the guys ....
> The only comment I want to add here (I added plenty yesterday) is that I
> didn't like the title of this piece. Most of it refers to athletes in general;
> not specifically gymnasts. So the title should read either "athletes' secret"
> or "gymnast's secret" (i.e. gymnast singular, not plural).
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 1994 01:56:12 -0500 (EST)
Hello! I just got back to Columbus after the trip to Dortmund and a stay
in NY (where I got to meet Adriana and Debbie - an added bonus!). Since it's
1 a.m. right now, I'm too tired to write much, but I'll add some things to what
Billy said in his reports. In my opinion, in both the men's and women's
competitions, the results came out right for that particular day. But I have to
say that the Russians beat themselves. The men were doing great through the
first 4 events, but then for TV purposes (German TV broadcast the finals
live), on the last 2 events the gymnasts had to perform one at a time. Granted,
each team was forced to wait around a long time, but this seemed to rattle the
Russians the most. They more or less self-destructed on p-bars and high bar,
while China hit everything. Nemov told me at the banquet that the "pause" broke
the Russian team's momentum, and he was very upset about it. He said he
couldn't sleep all night after the loss to China. He wouldn't have been as
upset if Ukraine or Belarus had beaten them (there is still a lot of
comaraderie among the ex-Sovs). Also, when Voropayev fell off high bar the 2nd
time, he just walked off the podium crying. I felt really bad for him. Arkaev
spent the rest of the last rotation staring across the arena at the Chinese on
pommels. Maybe he was trying to "will" them to fall. But they were super clean
and definitely deserved the gold.
The women's competition was kind of a similar story. To me, at least, it
was obvious that the gold was going to be given to Romania. Earlier in the
week, we interviewed Svetlana Khorkina, and she was very upset about the
scoring, particularly Romania's and the USA's compulsories. They competed in a
later round than Russia, and benefitted greatly from that. At one point
Svetlana said something like, Why should we even bother to compete when all it
is is a game among the judges? A very valid question. She also said that it
seems to her that no one likes Russian gymnastics anymore. I think the team was
pretty demoralized because of the scoring and also losing Natalia Ivanova, who
broke her foot the day before competition began. They were then forced to use
Lebedeva, who really isn't that good by Russian standards, and the judges were
not fooled by the ploy of putting her up last. Again, for TV purposes, during
the last 2 rotations the girls performed one at a time. Russia's last two
events were bars and beam, and they seemed to just crack under the pressure.
Roshchina was up first on both events, and fell on both events. On bars she
does a Tkachev, giant, Marinich (I know that's not the right name for the
girls', but I don't remember how to spell the correct version), and as she's
swinging back toward the low bar she does a full twist. She hit it in the
qualifying round but fell in finals. She also fell on her beam mount, and
Grosheva was uncharacteristically wobbly. That's basically what cost them the
silver. Meanwhile, the US girls were SOLID. I was extremely impressed with
Jaycie Phelps, who had a fantastic meet and was very well received by the
judges. Amy Chow also recovered remarkably well from her disastrous performance
in optional qualifying (3 falls on beam, and she sat down both vaults) and
nailed everything in finals. That was great to see.
Had there been an AA, it would have been (1) Milosovici (2) Khorkina and
(3) Dawes. I personally thought Lilia Podkopayeva was the best gymnast there,
but she had a fall in finals. She has a new floor routine, which is kind of
like Kalinina's - it starts out slow and classical and then turns into a
jazzercize sort of thing, but she's so cute she can get away with it. :) The
Russians' new floor routines were not what I had been hoping for. Too cutesy
(except for Kochetkova). Oksana Knizhnik (UKR) has a GORGEOUS new floor-ex,
very ballet-like. That was the style I was hoping the Russians would go for,
Susan, Joe (an NBC researcher) and I interviewed Shcherbo, Belenky,
Korobchinsky, and Nemov, and John Crumlish and I did the Khorkina interview,
which I think John said will be in the February IG. All of them were extremely
cooperative, friendly and open. I think the Korby interview will be in "Gym
Stars." His personality has changed drastically since '91, when I last
interviewed him. All the former arrogance is gone, and he was very pleasant and
friendly. If anyone wants more details on the interviews, let me or Susan know
(she's got them on audiotape). I'm too tired to remember everything right now!
We also learned some interesting things at the banquet. Nemov is already
planning ahead and trying to figure out how to get a contract in the US. He
said he's trying very hard to learn English (he already speaks it quite well,
but is shy about using it). He must have been having a bad day in Brisbane when
he refused to sign any autographs, because in Dortmund he was friendly as can
be. During the "official" interview he was very soft-spoken, but in regular
conversation, he's really open and fun and has a great sense of humor. As does
Karbonenko - he struck me as the team clown.
Well, I've already written more than I planned to, and I'm afraid it might
be a little incoherent since I'm very tired. Sorry about that! Let me know what
else you want to hear about, and I'll try to fill you in.
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 1994 09:55:41 -0500 (EST)
> Roshchina was up first on both events, and fell on both events. On bars she
> does a Tkachev, giant, Marinich (I know that's not the right name for the
> girls', but I don't remember how to spell the correct version), and as she's
The official name for the UB version of this skill is actually "Kim" as in
Kim Gwang-Suk. The official HB name is "Xiao" for Xiao Ruizhi. It is
often referred to as a "Marinich" because Vitaly Marinich was one of the
first (the second?) to do it and was instrumental in popularizing it, so
I guess there was some confusion as to who did it first.
Date: Sun, 27 Nov 1994 10:36:05 -0500 (EST)
Any comments about Kerri Strug? Has she changed for the better(or worse)
since leaving Steve Nunno's gym? I was really impressed at the World
trials by how quickly she was able to come back from that *bad* fall that
kept her out of Nationals.
End of gymn Digest