gymn Digest Fri, 29 Apr 94 Volume 2 : Issue 118

Today's Topics:
10.0's...The Eternal Question (2 msgs)
Chinese names (2 msgs)
GYMN newsgroup
GYMN Newsgroup? (3 msgs)
Leos (3 msgs)
Leos, future worlds, media coverage (2 msgs)
Steve McCain
student athlete Listserv
worlds

This is a digest of the gymn@athena.mit.edu mailing list.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Apr 94 09:43:46 PDT
From: ***@eworld.com
Subject: 10.0's...The Eternal Question

Lets review the process.

FIG sets standards. According to those standards, 10.0 is perfect.

Since a 10 is a theoretical impossibility (as Susan so eloquently
points out), once you start getting more and more 10s, it's time to
revise the standards to make 10s more difficult.

This is not to say that the standards should compel the gymnasts
towards more and more difficult tricks. Rather that the standards,
what they measure, and how they measure those things must be revised.
This could mean more specific FORM requirements, tightening numbers on
subjective measures, etc.

When standards are revised in 1996, I for one will be jumping up and
down on all technical committee members I know and scream about this.
THERE AIN'T NO TENS.

David

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Apr 1994 18:53:45 -0400 (edt)
From: <***@dorsai.dorsai.org>
Subject: 10.0's...The Eternal Question

>
> Lets review the process.
>
> FIG sets standards. According to those standards, 10.0 is perfect.
>
> Since a 10 is a theoretical impossibility (as Susan so eloquently points
> out), once you start getting more and more 10s, it's time to revise the
> standards to make 10s more difficult.
>
> This is not to say that the standards should compel the gymnasts towards more
> and more difficult tricks. Rather that the standards, what they measure, and
> how they measure those things must be revised. This could mean more specific
> FORM requirements, tightening numbers on subjective measures, etc.
>
> When standards are revised in 1996, I for one will be jumping up and down on
> all technical committee members I know and scream about this. THERE AIN'T NO
> TENS.
>
> David
>
>

What you are describing is the process that occurs every 4 years when
a new code comes out. The rules are revised to challange the
gymnasts. The code seems to be good, I think the judges just need to
use it correctly. The rules for execution have not changed, in many
cases they are not applied. Internationaly there is more going on
than just the scores.

Bruce

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Apr 94 16:28:53 BST
From: ***@ic.ac.uk
Subject: Chinese names

It was interesting to see how many of you are saying 'Watch out for
the Chinese in future competition'. A year ago after Worlds'93 I read
a Chinese mag and the headline was 'Chinese gymnastics in total chaos'
because they failed to win a single medal in Birmingham. Now
everybody thinks that they're world beaters. I guess it's all thanks
to a new generation of Chinese gymnasts which are so innovative
(especially on the womens uneven bars!)

Being a Chinese myself I can say definately that the surnames of Li,
Lu and Luo, etc. are completely different and distinct! If you see
them written out in Chinese you wouldn't believe that they sound
similar. Also for Li Li, the surname Li is also different from the
first name Li. In fact, as far as I know, the first name Li should be
pronounced a bit deeper than the surname Li. (Not forgetting that we
Chinese put our surnames first when we say our names). Also in our
language each 'word' has only one syllable, and we have a one word
surname and a one or two words first name. So when you see Mo Huilan
you can spot immediately that 'Mo' is the surname and 'Huilan' is the
first name (Other examples: Li Yifang, Li Dashuang, Huang Liping,
etc.) Although there are lots of others that have one word surname and
one word first name (e.g. Li Li, Luo Li, Lu Li, etc.)

All clear? I hope this is relevant...?

Sherwin

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Apr 94 11:33:44 PDT
From: ***d@eworld.com
Subject: Chinese names

Sherman:

Thank you for that clarification. That was somewhat simpler than the
reply I sent on the same subject.

Birmingham was something of a debacle for the Chinese. After a decade
of triumph, it sobered EVERYBODY up. Now there is an increased
emphasis on coaching at the Provincial level, so that when a gymnast
"comes up" to the gym in Beijing, they have the basics and only have
to work on the tough stuff (although Lu Lu and Luo Li still do 100
kips a day.)

David

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Apr 1994 15:58:12 -0500 (EST)
From: ***@gallua.gallaudet.edu
Subject: GYMN newsgroup


>Why don't we create a rec.sport.gymnastics newsgroup? There is
>starting to be to much mail on this list to keep up with. At least a
>newsreader will let one search/sort through the stuff you might want
>to read.

Yeah! I am all for this idea...How do we go about this??

Reggie


Why not?

Will

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Apr 94 22:36:31 PDT
From: <***@cisco.com>
Subject: GYMN Newsgroup?

Why don't we create a rec.sport.gymnastics newsgroup? There is
starting to be to much mail on this list to keep up with. At least a
newsreader will let one search/sort through the stuff you might want
to read.

Because normally, there isn't really enough traffic to support a
newgroup. It's only occasionally, when worlds and NCAA championships
occur at the same time or something, that there are lots of
messages...

Chops

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Apr 94 09:00:20 BST
From: ***@axion.bt.co.uk
Subject: GYMN Newsgroup?

>>Why don't we create a rec.sport.gymnastics newsgroup?
>>There is starting to be to much mail on this list to
>>keep up with. At least a newsreader will let one
>>search/sort through the stuff you might want to read.

>Because normally, there isn't really enough traffic to
>support a newgroup. It's only occasionally, when worlds
>and NCAA championships occur at the same time or something,
>that there are lots of messages...

To think it was only a month ago when we were moaning there
weren't enough messages.

Anyway another very good reason not to have a newsgroup is we miss all
the stupid posts from people who leave their terminals logged in. So
we dont get any 'get a life' posts followed by 'oh sorry I left my
terminal logged in can you forgive me' followed by tons of messages
endlessly droning on perpetuating the thread.

Newsgroups aren't worth the hassle,I for one am very happy with the
list how it stands at the moment, at least I know that everyone who
posts to the list is actually interested in the sport.

Clive.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Apr 1994 12:02:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: <***@gateway.us.sidwell.edu>
Subject: GYMN Newsgroup?

> Why don't we create a rec.sport.gymnastics newsgroup? There is
> starting to be to much mail on this list to keep up with. At least a
> newsreader will let one search/sort through the stuff you might want
> to read.

There are some good reasons to start a gymnastics newsgroup and some
bad ones. Good reasons include: most people would look for discussion
on gymnastics first in a list of Usenet discussion groups (I never
would have found Gymn if I hadn't done an Archie search and accidently
stumbled upon the Gymn FTP site), it is easier to find Usenet
newsgroups on subject than mailing lists, and people who aren't really
all that interested in gymnastics right now might discover the
newsgroup, start reading messages in it, find out more about
gymnastics, and get really into it. With a mailing list, they might
think it too much of a hassle to subscribe when they aren't sure
they're all that interested.

Bad points are: not everyone has access to a newsgroup reader (my
school has a full Internet connection, for example, but we don't have
a newsgroup reader and some people are on services through which you
can get mail from the Internet, but you can't read newsgroups) and
it's often more convenient just to read mail from your mailbox and
delete messages you aren't interested in.

Lisa

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Apr 94 10:52:43 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Leos

gimnasta said

> As every female gymnast knows (probably every female, period),
white makes you look fatter (and then add TV to it)

Can we use the opposing logic to assume why the Russian girls wore jet
black - to diminish their size. I know tv is not a good barometer,
but they looked big compared to the other competitors.

Also, how tall is Milosovici?

Mara

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Apr 94 16:58:43 BST
From: ***@ic.ac.uk
Subject: Leos

Mara said

> Can we use the opposing logic to assume why the Russian girls wore jet black
> - to diminish their size. I know tv is not a good barometer, but they looked
> big compared to the other competitors.

Maybe the Russians ARE big. Khorkina is certainly very tall (wrong
Sport? maybe she should be a rhythmic gymnast with her thin legs and
long lines). Fabrichnova is also much taller than last year.
Kochetkova wasn't that big was she? Grosheva, maybe smallest of the
Russians, actually wore a white/pink/ blue leo. Have you seen Oksana
Nikolaeva, she's even bigger than any of the above mentioned Russians.

Sherwin

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Apr 94 17:38:54 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Leos

>Can we use the opposing logic to assume why the Russian girls wore jet black
- to diminish their size. I know tv is not a good barometer, but they looked
big compared to the other competitors.

Oh yeah the Russians are huge...probably all of 5 feet and 90 pounds.
With this kind of logic it's no Wonder that roughly half (though I
think it's much higer in reality) of all female gymnasts suffer from
eating disorders. Maybe the Russians wore black because simple black
velvet is a classy and attractive way to go. Also maybe because Reebok
is their team sponser (and the US's) and they have way better taste
than the USGF. C'mon when RUSSIANS have better fashion sense than you
do it's really time to rethink your wardrobe choices...

Susan

PS-
>I must agree - Boginskaya had great leos. Where did she get them all?

Bogie was the queen of good taste and got about 90% of her leos from
Christen Moreau...who sponsered the Soviet team. She also did modeling
for his catalog...as did Kharkov & Mogilny.

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Apr 1994 12:33:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: <***@gateway.us.sidwell.edu>
Subject: Leos, future worlds, media coverage

> Jaye writes:
>
> > After a phone conversation with Shannon, she is not a big fan of the
> white leo, but she did not say why.
>
> That's easy. As every female gymnast knows (probably every female, period),
> white makes you look fatter (and then add TV to it). Shannon, however, could
> use it. And speaking of periods. . . (though this may not apply to Shannon
> yet).
>
> -- gimnasta

Yeah, plus they are so see-through! On my team, many older girls
prefer either white or black leotards because those are the only
colors that don't show sweat spots. White leo's, however, are out of
the question because you can see bras through them.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 29 Apr 1994 14:39:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: <***@gateway.us.sidwell.edu>
Subject: Leos, future worlds, media coverage

On Wed, 27 Apr 1994, Jaye (in part):

> As for future worlds, I think the U.S. will still have a team caple of
> winning future worlds. The Dymno gym is sitll producing athleets of equal
> or greater skills than Shannon (sorry Shannon). Jenni Thompson is futher
> along in her development than Shannon was, not only that, she will be in a
> better age for the Olympics in '96.

Not to mention Tanya Maiers (*love* her beam), Soni Meduna, and
Marianna Webster, all of whom will be 16 or younger in Atlanta.
Maiers and Meduna placed 2-3 respectively (behind Thompson) at
Nationals '93 and Webster, competing as a senior, had a really bad
meet and just missed the national team. She did get 3rd at Olympic
Festival last year. I talked to her mother after the meet and she
said that Marianna was just overprepared.

Lisa

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Apr 94 17:38:46 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Steve McCain

> I went out to Lincoln this weekend for NCAA's, and it was a great display
of our sport. Personally, I think Steve McCain of UCLA was without a doubt
the most outstanding gymnast.

Yeah he does fall a lot but he can POINT HIS TOES...That's an "E" move
for US guys. He and Mihai Bagu are the ony two Americans that even
come close to form. When I first saw Steve it was at training for the
USA/UKR/BLR meet last year (held at UCLA)...and from a distance I
thought he was that Ukrainian guy Svetlichniy...trust me it is not a
normal thing for me (or anyone with eyes) to confuse American guys
with Sovs at any distance- even someone who was probably 35th on thier
team. Of course, later we saw Steve tumbling the new compulsory and he
almost killed himself...but he does have nice line and for that alone
I am SOOOOOOO thankful.

Susan

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Apr 1994 10:30:10 -0500 (CDT)
From: <***@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu>
Subject: student athlete Listserv

I hope I don't get flamed for this "advertisement" but I have set up a
Student Athlete Bulletin Board so that we (the athletes) can have some
sort of communication among ourselves. Here on Gymn, we have had some
excellent talks about title 9 and the future (or demise) of our sport.
Personally, I think that all sports outside basketball and football
are in danger of evaporating. I don't want this to happen. If anyone
would like to help fuel the enthusiasm of student athletes to help
them arm themselves to take on the school administrations and athletic
administrations, please join us.

Just tell me and I'll manually sign you up.

Sorry about the improper netiquette, but at least I'm not selling
Green Cards...

Now for a gymnastics comment. I went out to Lincoln this weekend for
NCAA's, and it was a great display of our sport. Personally, I think
Steve McCain of UCLA was without a doubt the most outstanding gymnast.
It's great to see an all arounder who is willing to do so much
innovative stuff. He fell a lot, but what amplitude...on everything.

Would someone please tell me why everyone from Nebraska does back
uprise straddle-l on rings? This seems too much like an extra swing
to me, and it just seems like a waste. After all, whip-it to a
straddle-l is counted as an extra swing. I don't mean to criticize a
team that went 35 for 36, but this "team trick" has always bugged me.

Thanks,

David Pearlstein
------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Apr 94 17:16:29 EDT
From: <***@freenet1.scri.fsu.edu>
Subject: worlds

Hello everyone.I JUST got home from the airport and I'm VERY tired
after 38 hours of travelling.The IG tour to worlds this year was a
blast! We had a pretty good group of people with the exception of a
few of the "older folk." I was able to video the gymnastics.I taped
about 12 hours and will sell them as soon as I edit them.I'll send
everyone information as soon as possible.I counted the # of routines I
caught in prelims which was a total of around 300.I did forget ny
tripod at home(along with my camera and $150.00 worth of travelers
checks) so in a few shots it gets a little shakey,but overall the
quality is pretty good.I plan on selling the videos by the session.I'm
not sure how long it will be because I'm going to be busy working and
working out.I was also asked by the editor of International Gymnast to
write an article about the competition so that's going to take some
time.If anyone has any questions about the videos or competition just
drop me a line.I'm sorry I'm rambling,I think I'll go to sleep now.

mcbilly

--

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 28 Apr 1994 13:14:30 -0500
From: <***@ecn.purdue.edu>

Cara said:
> In regards to competition leos, why can't the U.S. choose non-red,
>white, and blue designs w/o the stupid ones they were messing around with last
>season, like the bad pink one (who chose that FABRIC???!!!) and the
>oh-so-fashionable crayon scribble design. The white leos weren't originally

I actually liked that leo and wished tht they wore it more often. I
only saw a few pictures of it so I'm not sure what you mean by the
fabric. The red and dark blue leos they had back in 89 and 90 (Brandy
Johnson, Wendy Bruce, Sandy Woolsey, etc) were pretty nice. The way
the stripes were orriented seemed to make the gymnasts look a bigger
in the chest and shoulder area.

>Boginskaya used white leos
>w/ strong contrasts to her advantage ('89 Worlds AA finals, '89 Europeans, '90
>Goodwill, that amazing Nancy Raymond 8x10 of her for sale in IG - I could go
>on.) Why can't they go for a flattering color-block scheme, or a

I must agree - Boginskaya had great leos. Where did she get them all?

Rachele said:
>| From: Jayeson Howell <howellj@db.erau.edu>
>|
>| In defense of the white leos, they are the team uniform for the
>| '94 USA team. They are provided by USA Gymnastics, and the athletes are
>| required to wear them when thyy are participating as a member of Team
>| USA. After a phone conversation with Shannon, she is not a big fan of the
>| white leo, but she did not say why.
>
>I think Lori was aware of why the USA gymnasts had to wear white
>leos... she was just commenting that she didn't necessarily like them.

My point was, when they have both white leos and colored leos for a
competition, it seems they tend to wear the white leo (even for event
finals when gymnasts on the same team don't have to match). I guess
if the gymnasts actually like the white more, that is why we see it
more.

>However, the other reason that surprised me was that the National team
>girls get upset if they don't get white leos! At the American Cup
>'93, the girls were very upset that they had to wear pink leos, and
>then black. <shrug shoulders> Who knows.

I don't understand this much either. Whoever made the comment (sorry
I don't remember which message it was) that the older girls don't like
the sweat spots on the colored leos had a good point but the white
leos are so see-through and bland. I guess they do hide chalk well
where it would show up a lot on the colored ones.

>I must say though that I like the white leos over the horrendous stars
>and stripes combos that the USGF will sometimes let loose ('84, the
>'88 podium leo).

I agree - those were absolutely horrendous. Thank god they were only
podium leos.


Lori

------------------------------

End of gymn Digest
******************************