gymn Digest                 Tue, 26 Apr 94       Volume 2 : Issue 115

Today's Topics:
                         ABC/Worlds (3 msgs)
                            Chinese Women
               Comaneci Sponsoring Romanian gymnastics
               GBR v ROM impressions (19th March 1994)
                         going to USA Champs?
                             More Worlds.
                              NCAA women
             NCAA women - event finals - complete scores
                              Pak salto
                           Random comments
                         Tickets to Nationals
                         TV schedule (2 msgs)
                         Women's AA comments
                       World comments (2 msgs)

This is a digest of the mailing list. 


Date: Tue, 26 Apr 94 10:56:51 EDT
From: ***
Subject: ABC/Worlds

Greetings, fellow Gymn'ers

I must agree with what seems to be a consensus that, well, Susan said it
best: "ABC sucks. . . "  I do admit as to liking the black and white
highlights of the old gymnastics in the bumpers as ABC came back from
commercial, though.

The question I want to know is since that there is a major time
difference between here and Australia (something like 15 hours) plus
the events were well over before airing here in the USA, couldn't ABC
have done better editing and shown the better gymnasts of the meet?
Dina Kochetkova won 3 medals and she was only really given air time on
Sunday's Event Finals.  We know that Shannon is the best in the world,
but does that mean that none of the other gymnasts are worthy enough
to be seen on American TV?  I was sitting in my den and thinking,
"Hey, I would be willing to sit through John Tesh's dumb questions if
I could actually see some good coverage."

Just a little fuming,


Date: Tue, 26 Apr 94 16:45:08 BST
From: ***
Subject: ABC/Worlds

-Brent fumed
>The question I want to know is since that there is a
>major time difference between here and Australia (something
>like 15 hours) plus the events were well over before airing
>here in the USA, couldn't ABC have done better editing and
>shown the better gymnasts of the meet?

I was wondering did they show on ABC any of the on screen graphics
from Brisbane highlighting in particular where USA competitors were
positioned, you know like they had a top ten and then below they
detailed the people who came in xxxth place who were Americans.



Date: Tue, 26 Apr 94 14:58:22 EDT
From: ***
Subject: ABC/Worlds

> We know that Shannon is the best in the world, but does that
mean that none of the other gymnasts are worthy enough to be seen >on
American TV?

How do we know Shannon is the best in the world if we didn't get to
see anyone else (Kochetkova esp)?

-- Gimnasta


Date: Mon, 25 Apr 94 16:12:22 EDT
From: ***
Subject: Chinese Women

I must say that when it comes to sheer quality of movement that NO ONE
comes near the Chinese girls. Their beam sets flow effortlessly from
one move to another. Whenever they intro a new trick it's done
wonderfully (toes pointed, legs straight, choreography extraordinary,
each hand position perfect). On FX there tumbling may be only average
and their dance hookey and yet still you're transfixed simply by the
way they move.  It's so graceful and yet so natural...

I think that except for mental toughness the Chinese are already a
team to be reckoned with.  Ever since they joined the world scene in
1979 (and even before) they've revolutionized the uneven bars and Yang
Bo single handedly reinvented the beam...

They're probably the number one Compo team in the world...only the
judges seem not to notice. If they can get their heads up to par with
their skills then the world championship could be theirs...they're
obviously far more accomplished artistically than the Romanians if
only they can gain some consistency.



Date: Tue, 26 Apr 94 16:52:43 BST
From: ***
Subject: Comaneci Sponsoring Romanian gymnastics

Hi all,

Since Nadia Comaneci had announced that she is going to put some money
into Romanian gymnastics, can I make a suggestion and invest on a
'School of Expressions' to put some life into the Romanian routines!
Gee, they're so dull! Gogean, Milosovici, Hatagan, etc. you name it
and you get a boring expression. They are great gymnasts, no doubt,
but a bit of life, a smile here and there can make the routines so
much more enjoyable! (Mind you, Nadia was very stony faced herself at
her time) Ask Daniela Silivas to help!



Date: Tue, 26 Apr 94 11:31:52 BST
From: ***
Subject: GBR v ROM impressions (19th March 1994)

Hi all. I've only been member of Gymn for a day but here's my first
contribution. Here's an edited version of the experience of my friend
Rachael Twomey (15 years old) who went to the GBR v ROM meet in
Liverpool, England,on the 19th March, 1994: (This is a womens only
event and also remember that this is just before Worlds'94 so some of
the routines on show were NEW in a sense.)

'     Well, we arrived, I bought a programme and was delighted (and
surprised) to see the following Romanians listed : Milosovici,
Hatagan, Gogean and Cacovean! Yes! Also there was Simona Amanar and
Daniela Maranduca (sp?).

      You'll get a surprise when you read the scores although it is
no surprise that Milosovici won. She did her usual beam and bars
rotuines, the Yurchenko-half vault and her Worlds'93 floor tumbles to
new AWFUL music! She made no real mistakes except for going out of
bounds on floor (and she still got a 9.675!). However I thought Milo's
scores were very generous, especially her 9.975 on BB!

      Gogean finished fourth - it would have been second except that
she fell off the bars attempting the Marinich (She also did two
Tkatchevs). On beam, Gogean has added a new acro series to her usual
routine - flip to full-twisting tucked back (!) and she was very
steady on it. On vault Gogean did a brilliant Yuchenko one and a half
for 9.95 and she too has new floor music. It starts off as Silivas's
music from Worlds'87, then changes halfway through. She's still using
the dreaded forward tumbles though!

      Cacovean my fave senior Romanian is looking very, very
polished. She is also so tiny, I couln't get over it and so cute she
could be eight years old! She did the 9.9 tariff handspring front
piked-half vault very cleanly, though the landing needs some work. Her
UB is as good as ever and she has a floor routine with music that
isn't great but that has cute choreography and great tumbles - whip to
tucked full-in; whip to two and a half twists; full-in tucked
(stuck!).  Cacovean finished fifth, a surprise, because after a
perfect beam routine she sat down on her dismount landing! I was so
disappointed!  As it was Cacovean's beam score was 9.350, so just
think what it could've been if she hadn't fallen!

      Due to Gogean and Cacovean's mistakes, Hatagan finished
second.  She did a successfull Marinich on bars (and a Geinger and a
Tkatchev!), the Yurchenko half vault, her floor tumbles from Nikon
Grand Prix but with new music (awful, again!) and her BB is very clean
and it's upgraded. She does split leap, backflip quarter turn to
handstand, then circles the beam (like you do in the backflip across
the beam). She also does punch front to immediate backflip quarter to

      I should say Milosovici will be competing at Brisbane but who
out of Gogean, Cacovean and Hatagan will be the reserve, I don't know.
They were all so good! I had a great, great time!

      After the great competition was the presentation, then the
march out. Except half the audience marched out with the gymnasts in
an attempt to get autographs! There was total chaos! I could see this
so I went back inside the arena while my dad was talking to a British
gym coach who had coached him in rugby 20 years ago! Then I went back
out to the lobby area and the crowd had disappeared. There was just me
and three other girls. One of the girls opened the door to where the
gymnasts were and the man at the door told her it was private.  Then
another man, who looked official said 'Excuse me these are my
granddaughters.' And the 3 girls were allowed in! Don't ask me why!
And I sneaked in, too!

      It was amazing! Just the four of us and the Romanian team! I
was so excited I didn't know what to do. When my shock subsided, I
asked Cacovean for her autograph and when she stood next to me she
barely stood up to my elbow, she's so short! And she wears eye make-up
quite heavily that I hadn't noticed before. The other girls were
swarming Milo so I got Gogean's autograph, then Simona Amanar's, then
Hatagan's then Maranduca's! It was SO EXCITING!! Before I could get
Milo's autograph, we were chucked out and the gymnasts were moved into
the arena so everyone could queue for autographs. But the queue for
Milo's was too long and my dad had to get home.

      Milo was so relaxed and smiling a lot during the autograph
signing. When my sister gave Milo a poster to sign she snatched
Hatagan's pen from her, while she was writing with it and Nadia
laughed! I never knew she knew how to laugh! Cacovean was quite
matter-of-fact and expressionless but occassionally gave this really
cute smile and poor Gogean looked as bored and miserable as ever. A
lot of poeple were overlooking Gina and just getting Milo's autograph
but for me, Milo's was the only one I didn't get!

      I still can't believe that I got into that private room and
gotautographs and spoke to them! (OK, so it was only 'please sign' and
'thank you' but until my German improves it's not advisable to take up
a second foreign language!) You know Gogean is surpirsingly short in
person too and she's into green eye make-up.

GBR v ROM '94 : RESULTS (Romania)

                    VT    UB    BB    FX      Total

Lavinia Milosovici      9.925 9.800 9.975 9.675 |  39.375
Nadia Hatagan           9.725 9.700 9.800 9.700 |  38.925
Simona Amanar           9.825 9.550 9.700 9.725 |  38.800
Gina Gogean       9.950 9.100 9.850 9.750 |  38.650
Andrea Cacovean         9.750 9.675 9.350 9.700 |  38.475
Daniela Mararduca 9.600   *   9.750 9.750 |  29.100

* = did not compete'

I hope this isn't too long and thanks again to Rachael Twomey for her


Date: Tue, 26 Apr 1994 11:38:07 -0500 (CDT)
From: <***>
Subject: going to USA Champs?

from the USAG BBS: [note that Champs and Congress are being held
simultaneously this year]

USA Gymnastics National Congress
Special Airline Discounts

USA Gymnastics has selected Opryland International Travel (OIT) to be
your official travel agency for this years Congress

Opryland International Travel:
>       Is conveniently located in the Opryland Hotel!
>       Offers 10 percent off all fares on American Airlines
>       Provides each traveller with $200,000 flight insurance at no cost.
>     Gives you FREE AIRPORT SHUTTLE service ($13 savings per
      person) when you book your flight with OIT.

BONUS: Every Attendee who purchaces their airline ticket from OIT,
regardless of airline, will have a chance to win a round trip ticket
on American Airlines.  Call OIT at 1-800-677-9526 from 8am-5pm
(Monday-Friday) and 9am-4pm (Saturdays) central time or FAX


Date: Tue, 26 Apr 94 09:29:38 BST
From: ***
Subject: More Worlds.

Susan pointed out:
>Actually it was Paul Bowler and the really weird thing is
>that he did it last year too (fall of rings that is). I
>happened to be sitting next to  him the day after it happened
>(in '93 that is) and after a while said "Would you be
>offended if I asked you what happened"? His coach dissolved into
>giggles but he just smiled and said "No...I really have no idea...I
>was fine one minute and the next I was laying on my back."
>I wonder if there has ever been consecutive world's rings
>("you know rings those two little round thing you never let go
>falls before?

Well Powell and P Bowler are fairly similar, I can be excused for
having a poor memory I did watch alot of TV over the weekend. Anyway
you worked out who he was.



Date: Mon, 25 Apr 1994 13:32:04 +0800
From: ***@Eng.Sun.COM (George Atkins)
Subject: NCAA women

Thanks for the feedback, Bill.  It's surely no slight on the Utah
crowd for being rowdy (like I said, this is the first time I've been
to a National meet where the home team was in the finals.)  It's
inevitable as (or if) gymnastics becomes more popular.  It's such a
different scene, though!  At Cal, you *might* get 200 people there (if
you give away tickets ;^).  Usually the gymnasts on the floor cheering
drowns out the fans.  I guess I've gotten used to that kind of
environment.  You'd have to admit that it is a lot easier to

But, more importantly, you say:

  I could take issue
  with judging on a whole variety of fronts, but I thought that given the
  terrain in this case the placings were about right.  I must also admit that I
  wonder with judging as subjective as it is, in general, if it might not be
  more fair to consider anything within 0.5 points in team score a tie.

That kind of made me wonder, too (only allowing a certain accuracy for
the final team scores.)  Do you think, though, that people would
accept such a thing?



Date: Tue, 26 Apr 94 09:17:08 EDT
From: ***
Subject: NCAA women - event finals - complete scores

Lisa writes:

>days of competition!  Plus, the last 10 in FIG competition was
Milosovici's 10 on floor in the '92 Olympics.  Last year, weren't there
>like 6 10's at NCAA's?

Milosovici's 10 was far from deserved; but more importantly, while the
FIG is no longer handing out 10's, look at the number of scores
between 9.9 and 10 last cycle.  Everybody was overscored and stuffed
into that space of a single tenth, and they had as many ties as NCAA.
I don't have too many results for '93 and '94, just general
impressions, and it does seem better, but I'd still look at the scores
between 9.8 and 9.9.  This is in *no* way meant as a defense of NCAA
scoring, just want say FIG isn't much better in terms of taking
deductions; it's just harder to start out of a 10.

-- Gimnasta


Date: Mon, 25 Apr 94 14:09:43 PDT
From: ***
Subject: Pak salto

Kathy writes:
> girl who did the Pak salto release on bars.)

      What is a Pak salto?

      I've heard the name passed around in a bunch of mail lately,
but have no clue as to what it is.



Date: Mon, 25 Apr 94 16:12:13 EDT
From: ***
Subject: Random comments

>Tychenko 1 and 1/2 the same vault she fell on last year...

Umm make that a Yurchenko 1 and 1/2 typing just gets worse and



Date: Mon, 25 Apr 1994 18:04:53 -0400 (EDT)
From: <***>
Subject: Tickets to Nationals

Does anyone know anything about how, when, where to purchase tickets
for this year's Nationals?  Also, any ideas about when tickets for '96
Olympic Trials or Olympics go on sale?



Date: Tue, 26 Apr 1994 11:36:17 -0500 (CDT)
From: <***>
Subject: TV schedule

Here is the calendar of TV events as published by USAG on their Delphi

EVENT                                   LOCATION   DATE  DATE TO  NET TIME
                                                   HELD  BE AIRED     (EDT)
World Championship Mens Indiv. Events.  Australia  4/94  4/30/94  ABC 4:30
NCAA Womens Championships               Salt Lake  4/94  5/8/94   CBS 2:00
NCAA Womens Championships               Salt Lake  4/94  5/15/94  CBS 2:00
Rhythmic Nat'l Championships (USAG)     Uniondale  5/94  5/22/94  CBS 2:00
Hilton Challenge (Men/Women)            Phoenix    5/94  6/4/94   ABC 4:30
  (China / Belarus / USA)
Rhythmic Nat'l Championships (USAG)     Uniondale  5/94  6/19/94  CBS 4:00
Budget Rent-A-Car Invitational          Worcester  6/94  6/19/94  NBC 2:30
  (Romania vs. USA)
US Olympic Festival (Men/Women/Rhyth)   St. Louis  7/94  7/3/94   CBS 2:00
US Olympic Festival (Men/Women/Rhyth)   St. Louis  7/94  7/9/94   CBS 4:00
US Olympic Festival (Men/Women/Rhyth)   St. Louis  7/94  7/10/94  CBS 2:00
Hilton Challenge (Men/Women) Repeat     Phoenix    5/94  8/20/94  ABC 4:30
Coca Cola National Championships (M/W)  Nashville  8/94  8/27/94  NBC 8:00
Coca Cola National Championships (M/W)  Nashville  8/94  8/28/94  NBC 7:00
Rhythmic International Invitational     TBA        9/94  10/29/94 TBA TBA
World Championships - TEAM (M/W)        Dortmund   11/94 12/3/94  NBC TBA

TBA = To Be Announced
All start times given are Eastern Daylight Time. Consult TV listings for
your area.


Date: Tue, 26 Apr 1994 10:45:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: <***@leland.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: TV schedule

Rachele wrote:
> Here is the calendar of TV events as published by USAG on their Delphi
> BBS:
> EVENT                                   LOCATION   DATE  DATE TO  NET TIME
>                                                    HELD  BE AIRED     (EDT)
> World Championship Mens Indiv. Events.  Australia  4/94  4/30/94  ABC 4:30
> NCAA Womens Championships               Salt Lake  4/94  5/8/94   CBS 2:00
> NCAA Womens Championships               Salt Lake  4/94  5/15/94  CBS 2:00

Just in case this hasn't been mentioned, they announced at the NCAA's
that the individual finals would be broadcast on May 8th and team and
all-around would be on the 15th (the opposite order of their actual


Date: Mon, 25 Apr 1994 11:35:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: <***>
Subject: Women's AA comments

On Sun, 24 Apr 1994, Lori wrote (part):

> gimnasta writes:
> > {comments on Shannon's floor routine}
> >
> > Gina Gogean's middle pass is ridiculous, and did anyone notice her routine
> > (at least the first half) is a Silivas ripoff?  Down to the steps on her
> > heels in the corner.  At least it's an improvement over her last routine.
> I thought it looked familiar.  I thought that both she and Milosovici
> looked like that had no desire to be there.  There was absolutely no
> expression in their routines.

Yeah, plus their music was awful!!  As my father said (during the last
part of Milosovici's routine),"It sounds like Led Zepplin."
Milosovici's old music wasn't much better, but I kind of liked
Gogean's old music.

While we're on this subject...Miller is in *dire* need of some new
music!  So is Borden, if she still has that celestial-sounding music.



Date: Mon, 25 Apr 94 15:07:19 EDT
From: <***@BBN.COM>
Subject: World comments

I rather enjoyed the 1950's footage (my roommate particularly enjoyed
the spotter for the women's uneven bars holding the bars still--and my
how close together the bars were back then!).  Like a number of
others, I don't mind having old footage thrown in (although I agree
that 3 times for Dawes vault from just last year was excessive), as
long as it doesn't shortchange the current coverage.  Unfortunately,
that's never the case.

There are gymnasts over the years who have struck me as "blah"-- they
do their stuff, often very well, but convey no originality or
personality of any kind, giving the impression that they're robotic
performers doing their jobs.  I'm sorry to say that Milosovici fits
into that category for me, and Miller, after leaving it last year, has
gone back into it.  On the other hand, I was disappointed that Dawes
has let her form get sloppy again.

My roommate award Mo the highest accolade for her Gaylord on bars (a
reverently awed "Jesus, what was that?  Roll the tape back so we can
see it again!").  (He still hasn't recovered from the girl who did the
Pak salto release on bars.)  Otherwise, we both noted a general
sameness in the women's floor routines (all that rather simple front
tumbling, except for Kochetkova) and the men's high bar (the double
over the bar is now _the_ release move, it seems).

What has Scherbo's practice schedule been like this past year?  I
thought he was lucky to do as well last year as he did, and I wonder
if lack of training was finally catching to him.  The falls were bad
enough, but all those little steps and bobbles were just as bad;
Scherbo just doesn't do that!

I agree with Bart Conner that with so many athletes playing the
numbers game--finding the easiest way to get scored from a 10--
the routines start to look more and more alike, especially on floor.
Someone wondered about Nunno's strategy in having Miller play this strategy on floor.  I don't know the answer, but my guess
would be that between her growth spurt and her chronic back problem,
he might have figured that easing off this year might be best in
keeping her around until 1996.

I would have liked to have seen more of Lysenko than a shot of her
walking in for the AA rotation a few girls ahead of Miller (not
counting the clip of her on the podium with Miller from last year's
AA), and more of Fontaine than of her sitting next to Dawes in the
stands while they watched Miller compete (without even being
identified for the audience!).

Re: Eurosport being good (and free): Why is it that in the country
with arguably the best production skills in the world, a large
population, and all these broadcast networks and cable channels, we
get at best 25 minutes of women's AA action in a 90 minute show?  Can
you imagine trying to show a baseball World Series game that way,
coming in at the 3rd inning, giving you the score, showing you a few
at-bats, cutting away for a personality profile on the pitcher,
showing you clips from the 1952 World Series game, coming back to
mention that interesting things happened in the 5th inning, but not
showing clips of them, etc., etc.?

In the footage of men from the 1950's, they showed a guy on high bar
releasing the bar (at about chest level), doing a twist, and then
regrasping.  Out of curiosity, does anyone know what that skill's
called and its current value?



Date: Tue, 26 Apr 94 09:50:33 BST
From: ***
Subject: World comments

>Re: Eurosport being good (and free):  Why is it that in the country
>with arguably the best production skills in the world, a large
>population, and all these broadcast networks and cable channels,
>we get at best 25 minutes of women's AA action in a 90 minute show?

I think it helps if the channel showing the sport has about 6205 hours
of empty schedules to fill up. Eurosport is a dedicated sports channel
they show nothing else other than sport. They also dont need to bother
with the dreaded ratings all the sports they show are sponsored by
companies who have their adverts on during the advert breaks. For
example for F1 Grand Prix coverage of which they show every
qualifying,warm-up,race and specific review programs and edited
highlights the sponsors are Elf,Good Year, Hitachi,Coca-Cola,Ford.
Then during the advert break you get adverts from Coca-Cola, Ford etc
etc. Basically its a simple way of getting exposure all across Europe
and also if they get the oppurtunity to fill up the schedules then
they do which is why the coverage of events is so extensive.



End of gymn Digest