gymn Digest Mon, 24 Jan 94 Volume 2 : Issue 63

Today's Topics:
CBS looking to fill Sunday aft. sports slot (2 msgs)
Front tumbling analysis
Front tumbling restated (3 msgs)
Reese's on Sunday
Reese's World Cup - Format & stuff
tall and short gymnasts
Temple Gymnastics; Aloha Gymfest
The Aloha Gymfest
The Gymn Reporter
Trivia Set #8, answers
Trivia Set #9, topic
UF-GA on TV
UF-Kentucky
UF Nearly Beats Defending Champs

This is a digest of the gymn@athena.mit.edu mailing list.

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Date: Fri, 21 Jan 94 19:27:53 EST
From: <***@BBN.COM>
Subject: CBS looking to fill Sunday aft. sports slot

An article in a recent issue of Variety suggests that CBS Sports
is investigating programming to fill the Sunday afternoon slot
previously occupied by NFL games, and that sports coverage aimed
at women is one possibility being considered. ("Women's sports"
include such things as figure skating, gymnastics, and diving.)
If you would like to encourage them along these lines, you
can write them at:

CBS
51 W. 52nd St.
New York, NY 10019

>>Kathy

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Date: Sat, 22 Jan 1994 12:13:25 -0500
From: ***@cykick.jvnc.net
Subject: CBS looking to fill Sunday aft. sports slot

Kathy writes about CBS investigating the possibility of
broadcasting more "women's sports" now that NFL football is leaving its
schedule (in part):

>If you would like to encourage them along these lines, you
>can write them at:
>
>CBS
>51 W. 52nd St.
>New York, NY 10019

If you want to direct your remarks to a specific person, address your
comments to:

Neil Pilson
President, CBS Sports

Let's hope he sees an avalanche of mail when he returns from the Winter
Olympics in Norway!

Helena

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Date: Fri, 21 Jan 94 16:54:03 PST
From: <***@us.oracle.com>
Subject: Front tumbling analysis

Chops mentioned that I left out landings.
I left out landings on purpose. I was dealing with going from standstill to
motion.

Clive further explained what was going on. I was trying to Keep It Simple &
Stupid (KISS) for the non scientists out there. MY attempt was to make
understandable on the nonverbal level. Kinda explain it with feelings rather
than words & math.

But Clive explained it in physics quite well nonetheless.
Clive also mentioned the "T" word. Techique ? Technique ?
We're on the internet here and most of us are techies hgere.
We dont gotta show you no steenkin' technique!

Seriously, Clive has brought up the next logical question.
Are tall gymnasts really at a disadvantage aginst shorter gymnasts ?
(Texx searches frantically for his physics of dynamics references,
his old calculus books, and his sliderule ! )

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Date: Fri, 21 Jan 1994 20:03:34 -0600 (CST)
From: <***@owlnet.rice.edu>
Subject: Front tumbling restated

So I've read everyone's replies, and it seems to boil down to the
following. Feel free to disagree:

If you are considering two acrobatic skills that:
- have the same backwards approach
- have the same number of flips in the air
- have the same body position (tucked, piked, etc)
[such as Yurchenko full vs Yurchenko 1/2, or tucked full-in
vs Arabian double front tucked]

Then: the skill with less twisting that lands forward is more
difficult than the skill with more twisting that lands backward

Because:
- forward landings are harder to spot
- there is much less margin for error on forward landings
due to how much one can bend at the hips and other
physiological (is that the right word?) factors
- aside from takeoff and landing issues, it's just harder
to rotate forward (physiological reasons again?), though
the impression I get is that this is just a marginal
factor.

(Andy, might want to collect all of the posted answers for "why is
forward tumbling more difficult?" in the FAQ, grin.)

Given all of the above, where would a double-twisting double-back fit
into this line of difficulty?

full twisting double back --- double Arabian --- double front

Would it be here..........^^^ or here........ ^^^ .....? (Of course
it would depend on the individual gymnast, too, but generally
speaking...)

Rachele

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Date: Fri, 21 Jan 94 18:22:57 PST
From: <***@cisco.com>
Subject: Front tumbling restated
- aside from takeoff and landing issues, it's just harder
to rotate forward (physiological reasons again?), though
the impression I get is that this is just a marginal factor.

It's more a matter of it being harder to initiate that forward rotation.
An arabian is a particularly questionable case, since you get some (a lot?)
of the rotation established when you are still going backward. In fact, one
of the key teaching points for arabian-like moves is convincing the gymnast
not to initate the half twist too early...

Chops

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Date: Mon, 24 Jan 94 14:11:27 GMT
From: ***@axion.bt.co.uk
Subject: Front tumbling restated

>- aside from takeoff and landing issues, it's just harder
> to rotate forward (physiological reasons again?), though
> the impression I get is that this is just a marginal
> factor.

It`s not the actual rotational part that is harder it`s
the initial forward rotation that first step into the
rotation which is harder, which is down to the laws of
physics and eventually down to the physiology of your
body.

As to wether it is a marginal factor is down to
your own personal perceptions and how difficult it is
for the individual. Some might find them equally as
difficult some might not.

Clive.

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Date: Fri, 21 Jan 1994 13:58:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: ***@ocvaxa.cc.oberlin.edu
Subject: Reese's on Sunday

I've heard that several of us are going to be at the Reese's World Cup
this Sunday. Dennis and I will be sitting together, and I'd love to
meet whoever else is going to be there. You can e-mail me at
sct3226@ocvaxa.cc.oberlin.edu and we can go from there. Perhaps we can all do
dinner or something afterward.
Cara
P.S. Is Kim training at Karolyi's or somewhere else? Does anyone have info on
this?

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Date: Sat, 22 Jan 94 21:46:34 EST
From: ***@sunland.gsfc.nasa.gov
Subject: Reese's World Cup - Format & stuff

As you probably know the Reese's World Cup will be held this Sunday in
Baltimore Cara and myself will be attending and will provide updates after
the meet. Some people might be wondering what the format to the competition
will be since retired gymnasts as well as those still activly competing will
be in the same competition.....:

The format is as follows: Men and women will compete in all events EXCEPT
vault. A routine can receive a maximum of 100 points. The break down is as
follows : a maximum of 30 points will be awared in three seperate categories.
The categories are difficulty/combinations, execution and exercise presentations
. There is also the possibility of receiving 10 bonus points. Prize money
ranges from $150-$2000 at each apparatus and for all-around competition.

By the way there was some previous speculation amoung some GYMN members that
Shannon Miller may not be at the competion. A full interview in the Baltimore
Sun with Miller confirms that she will be at the competition. She made
a comment that she would love to compete in Atlanta. She even made a comment
about the recent attach on Nancy Kerrigan. Miller believes it would not
happen in gymnastics cause 6 make up a team as opposed to 2 however she said
she is a bit more self conscious.

FYI confirmed for the US are Miller, Okino, Zmeskal, Dawes, and Dimas.

Results forthcoming.....

Dennis

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Date: Sat, 22 Jan 94 10:43:08 PST
From: ***@Eng.Sun.COM
Subject: tall and short gymnasts

Robert writes:

Seriously, Clive has brought up the next logical question.
Are tall gymnasts really at a disadvantage aginst shorter gymnasts ?

>From what standpoint? It's clear that a tall gymnast will rotate more
slowly than a shorter gymnast, given the same technique. No need to
get too technical here and break things down into lateral force per
unit body weight or anything like that. But look at the routines of
top caliber gymnasts. Boginskaya took a *long* time to get around
on a laid out back as opposed to, say Tatiana Gutsu (remember her?)
It's also obvious when looking at bar routines.

It might be educational to consider only one gymnast. Due to the
conservation of angular momentum (I thought I wasn't going to get
technical ;^) you rotate much more slowly laid out as opposed to
tucked. If a gymnast is going around too fast on his landing, he
opens up earlier to slow down the rotation some. A taller gymnast
can't ball up as much as a shorter one. Take two gymnasts the same
weight. The lankier one will tumble more slowly, even if they can
generate the same force on their block.

Some might call this a "disadvantage" and surely it makes it much more
difficult to turn a laid out double, given the same air time. But, as
Dave pointed out a while back, there are all sorts of advantages and
disadvantages to being tall or short as a gymnast, so I guess it's best
to go with what you've got!

-George A.

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Date: Fri, 21 Jan 1994 19:34:07 -0600 (CST)
From: <***@owlnet.rice.edu>
Subject: Temple Gymnastics; Aloha Gymfest

Hey friends,

I somehow wound up with two media guides to Temple Gymnastics this
year. If anyone wants it, I'll send it to them.

Btw, I got a note (via snail mail) from Lynda about the Aloha Gymfest.
Louise (her daughter) did very well, but I don't remember any exact
numbers. I will post the note sometime soon. She will return to work
on January 31st, and will post more details later.

Oh yeah, I do remember, Michelle Campi won the meet, she said.
Overscored on bars but well-deserved scores on everything else.

Rachele

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Date: Sat, 22 Jan 1994 19:14:18 -0600 (CST)
From: <***@owlnet.rice.edu>
Subject: The Aloha Gymfest

Here are excerpts from the note that Lynda sent me:

As I don't go back to work and therefore have net access until 31st
Jan., thought I'd let you know Louise's impressions of Hawaii etc.

The Aloha Gymfest. Faaantastic. She had a ball. She would dearly love
to go back again this year but one of the coaches wants to go to
Russia. Louise said the atmosphere wa great - she got layed (grin -
leid) 5 times. Finals were terrific and they went one at a time and
the audience was right behind everybody. They gave trophies right thru
to 10th place in both AA and events. Lovely shells.

Results: Louise came 12th AA with 35.85, made two event finals - vault
scoring 9.35 with a fall on her handspring front and floor scoring 9.3
with a fall on her last tumbling row. She came 6th vault and 9th
floor.

One of her teammates came 7th AA and her team came 5th - .2 from third
spot. None of the girls got in the top 3 - Louise came closest with
her 6th - but it didn't matter as its the best scores they've ever had
and the coach was very happy. Our club gives money back on away trips
based on performance: for a 34.00 they get 1/3 of the cost, 35.00 is
2/3, and 36.00 is full refund. Out of the 4 of them one gets 1/3 back,
2 gets 2/3 (including Louise), and one gets a full refund. I'm really
happy about that.

To work out places in event finals, scores were taken from the AA
events and then added to event finals scores to determine finishing
order. The Australian team had a couple of top 3 finishers - they
finished 1st in team event, a second on bars, 2nd on vault, 2nd or 3rd
beam, 2nd on floor, and 3rd on floor.

Top 5 AA was Michelle Campi, USA (Poszar's); 2nd Kiralee ...... from
Kokokahi from Hawaii; 3rd Anya Lam, Aust; 4th Nichole O'Brien, Aust;
5th Suzi Davis, Aust. Have sent program back to Canberra so she can't
remember Kiralee's last name. [I think it's "Hayashi", but I'm not
sure - RH]. Teams came from Canada, Great Britain, Australia,
California, Hawaii.

Quick impressions: Michelle Campi was overscored on bars - not very
impressive - beam, vault, and floor were good. Judges were very
friendly and so were the gymnasts. Great Britain team was not very
good, only one girl made vault finals. Overall it was a really fun
competition.

Will hopefully be able to send full scores when I get back to Canberra
in the meantime, I hope this will suffice. Any questions, send them
and I'll get them when I get home and try to answer them. Our club did
video some of the competition so I'll try to look at it when I get
home too.

Rachele

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Date: Sat, 22 Jan 1994 13:27:51 -0600 (CST)
From: <***@owlnet.rice.edu>
Subject: The Gymn Reporter

Hey folks,

I have just finished the first official issue of "The Gymn Reporter".
I'd like some feedback on it, so if you send me your address, I'll
send you a copy. Following is a general description of it.

If you'd like the text (ie email) version of TGR, let me know. It'll
be on the ftp site by next week

Rachele

_______________________________________________________________________
| |
| "The Gymn Reporter" is an edited compilation of selected forum |
| messages, intended for those who want to subscribe to Gymn but |
| lack net access. TGR is, however, available via both "real mail" |
| or email. Contact Rachele Harless (address, p. 2) to begin |
| receiving this complimentary newsletter. TGR is not published on a |
| regular basis. |
| |
|_____________________________________________________________________|

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Date: Fri, 21 Jan 1994 19:27:47 -0600 (CST)
From: <&&&@owlnet.rice.edu>
Subject: Trivia Set #8, answers

###################################################################
# #
# ________ G y m n ________ \ | ___ #
# o __o |o |o (o #
# An electronic forum !__ \! ! ! \. #
# for gymnastics. ====== ====== ====== ====== ====== #
# #
###################################################################

o o o o o o o Gymn Trivia Set #8 o o o o o o o o o o

TOPIC: NCAA Women's Gymnastics

[Disclaimer: I don't know a lot about collegiate stuff, so don't blame
me for this being "weak"...]

Thanks to Zoran for #1 and Karen K for #2!

--Q1. Which two women's teams have made it to every NCAA Nationals?

A. Utah and Florida

--Q2. Which gymnast on the Georgia team has competed in the Olympics,
but not for the US?

A. Lori Strong (Canada). Strong was "the best of the west" at the
1987 Worlds (I think she was 15th?), back when the communist countries
still dominated entirely. She has a move on bars named after her -- a
1.5 twisting overshoot from high to low.

--Q3. How many regions are there and what are they?

A. Five - Northeast, Mid-West, West, Southeast, and Central.

--Q4. Which women's team was dropped in August 1993 but then
reinstated due to legal pressure regarding Title IX?

A. UCLA

--Q5. This gymnast tore her ACL mid-way through last season as a
junior, after two very successful years. It's widely believed that
had she not been injured, her team would have made the "NCAA
Super-Six" finals.

A. Chari Knight (OSU)

--Q6. What are the NCAA Super-Six finals?

A. In contrast to previous years, last year's finals took the top
three teams each from two qualifying sessions on the previous day and
had them go through one more round of competition. Thus, the
"Super-Six".

--Q7. How many 10.0's were there at the 1993 National Champs?

A. 14. Six in event finals, six in team finals, and two in prelims/AA

--Q8. Who are some accomplished gymnasts that have already signed for
the 1995 season? (ie, looking through the list published by "The
Gymnastics Insider", which names does Rachele recognize, <grin>?)

A. Kim Arnold (Desert Devils/Georgia), Traci Sommer (North
Stars/Utah), Monica Shaw (?/Utah), Heather Kabnick (?/Michigan),
Lauren Labranche (?/Michigan), Martha Grubbs (Parkettes/Florida), Keri
Monihan (?/Stanford), Misty Moore (Capital/Stanford), Ioana Ojog (? -
formerly ROM/ Sacramento State)

--Q9. On what events are mats allowed this year (as in additional mats
to the competition ones)?

A. All of them.

--Q10. Which two-time NCAA Champ made the 1988 Olympic team... *after*
her championships?

A. Kelly Garrison-Steves. It was her third Olympic Trials.

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Date: Fri, 21 Jan 1994 19:29:28 -0600 (CST)
From: <***@owlnet.rice.edu>
Subject: Trivia Set #9, topic

Hmm, bet you all can't guess this one.

The topic for Trivia Set #9 will be NCAA Men's Gymnastics.

If you have any good trivia questions for the topic, please submit
them to rachele@rice.edu by Tuesday night. Questions will be much
appreciated! There are no promises that every question submitted will
be included in the next set, but I'll try my best.

[Maybe I should change this standard msg; it's getting kinda boring.]

Rachele

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Date: Sun, 23 Jan 94 23:58:14 EST
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: UF-GA on TV

To All:
The University of Florida-University of Georgia women's collegiate
gymnastics meet will be on SportsChannel at 8 p.m. this Wednesday.
By the way, sometimes the show times vary from state to state, so if it's
not listed for Wednesday night, check other nights before and after that
around the same time.
--- Ron

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Date: Sat, 22 Jan 94 16:08:10 EST
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: UF-Kentucky

To All:
Okay, let me first give you the score. The University of Florida Gators
defeated the Kentucky Wildcats, 188.15 to 184.95.
Now, before you say, "sheesh, isn't that a low score for Florida," let me
set the scene for you.
To begin with, UF competed without Amy Myerson (3 layouts and a
back-handspring in a single pass on beam), the team's second best gymnast.
Further, the team's 3rd-best gymnast, Colleen Johnson, hurt her hand slightly
on bars (the first event) and didn't compete for the rest of the night.
On top of all of that, UF used a weak lineup on every event to help rest
people so they could compete at full strength tonight against Georgia.
So, after saying all that, the 188.15 doesn't look too bad.
Okay, a few notes:
**Best move of the night on beam was a side-aerial to a back-handspring
with NO PAUSE, by Gator Nicole Stocker.
**Second best move of the night on beam was by Kentucky's Tammy Freeman.
She did a high split leap to *2* nice pike jumps to a back-handspring. Wow!
**Speaking of beam, Kentucky only had two falls on beam -- the first
time that's probably happened since cavemen ruled the earth. Kentucky
actually through some decent difficulty.
**On a final note, it appears to me that Jenny Hansen is losing skills
and losing her form. Yes, she won vault with a 9.95 (front w/half) and won
floor with a 9.9 (gift), but all her vaults, even her warm-ups, had huge
hops, her full-in on floor was crooked, her beam was shaky, at best, and her
bars were just not there (she got a 8.65 in competition). I don't know if
she's losing skills or is just having a slow start. We'll see, though, as
time progresses.
Well, gotta go folks. UF plays Georgia tonight.
It's a huuuuggggeeeee meet.
--- Ron

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Date: Sun, 23 Jan 94 20:12:21 EST
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: UF Nearly Beats Defending Champs

Thanks to a steady beam set, some gift scores, a noisy crowd of 6,516 and
a self-destructing Georgia team, the University of Florida Gators nearly
defeated the defending national champions Saturday night.
Georgia won, 194.025 to 193.325.
Even in defeat, some of the Gators were a bit cocky.
"I think they came in too confident," Gator Kristen Guise said of the
Georgia Bulldogs. "We showed them we're not going to be pushed around."
Guise had a particularly stellar night. She not only won the all-around
with a 38.6 (counting a fall on beam) but was boosted by the shrilly cheers
of dozens of her former teammates, who traveled from American Twisters in
South Florida to see the meet.
UF averaged about 48.3 on each of its first three events but was losing
by 1.5 points going into the final rotation. During that rotation, though, UF
excelled on floor and Georgia had three falls and shaky routines on beam.
Taking second in the all-around was Georgia Bulldog Leah Brown (5-foot-8,
143 pounds, 8-percent body fat), who scored a 38.575 (also counting a fall on
balance beam). In third place was Gainesville native Chrissy Vogel, scoring a
38.525.
Brown won vault with a booming handspring-front with a half (9.95).
Kristen Guise won bars with a 9.825, and Hope Spivey won beam with a huge
gift score of 9.8 (she didn't connect most of her moves and wobbled
throughout). Spivey also won floor with a routine that was getting a standing
ovation before it was done. She received a 9.9.
Halfway through the routine, Spivey did a number of dance moves from the
corner of the floor to the center.
Then the tape machine broke, the music slowed down and eventually
stopped.
Or so we thought!
The music then started playing backwards, and Spivey did all her dance
moves *IN REVERSE!*
It was AWESOME!
Florida was overscored by about a point (mostly on floor and beam), and
Georgia was overscored by about a half-point. Keep in mind, by the way, that
Georgia was throwing watered-down routines and had to count two falls on
beam.
Nevertheless, Georgia on floor threw 3 full-ins (Brown, Spivey and Leslie
Angeles) and a double-layout (Nneka Logan).
Florida, despite losing, is looking to be a very strong team. All four
apparatus are packed with difficulty, and Florida likely will have 2-3
double-layouts on floor by year's end, not to mention 5 bars routines with
two release moves each.
---- Ronald Dupont, Jr. in Gainesville, Fla.

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End of gymn Digest
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