gymn Digest                 Mon, 21 Mar 94       Volume 2 : Issue  89

Today's Topics:
                          Bama vs. LSU meet
                      chinese greats in mei guo
                       College Scores (4 msgs)
                           Country Hopping
                         Floor Music (2 msgs)
                   Georgia Coaches' Salary (2 msgs)
                     Georgia Coach Sues (2 msgs)
                             New Member!
                         worldcup 94 (2 msgs)

This is a digest of the mailing list. 


Date: Sat, 19 Mar 94 19:02:14 EST
From: ***
Subject: Bama vs. LSU meet

Last night I got a chance to see Alabama (196.25) and LSU (195.55). WOW!
Great gymnastics!
 Kim Kelly won the all-around with 39.75, and LSU's Jennifer Wood was second
 Alabama counted a fall on bars, but otherwise, this was the meet in which
they finally put it all
together. For instance, the Tide has three gymnasts (Kelly, Meredith Willard,
and Chasity Junkin)
with vaults valued at 10, and each one stuck their landing COLD for scores of
9.975, 9.95 and 9.95.
Kelly also scored a 9.975 on floor.
 LSU really suprised me. They were very clean, and counted no falls. I mostly
paid attention to
Bama,  but it was pretty obvious that they were putting pressure on the Tide
with their consistency.
I saw one of the coolest moves ever
  on beam when a Lady Tiger ( I'm not sure which one, and I promise I tried
to find out) did what
looked like some break dance - spin to a one arm push up to handstand . It's
hard to describe, but
it was AMAZING!
  Roll TIde!            Amanda


Date: Sun, 20 Mar 1994 21:35:04 -0600 (CST)
From: ***
Subject: chinese greats in mei guo

Is Li Ning in the U.S?
  I think he owns a gym somewhere out west sponsered by Jianlibao soft
  drink, but this may be false.  How about his sports clothing business
  in China?  Anyone have a "where is he now" update on the great one?

How about Tong Fei?
  He left Stanford, but did he go to Canada, or to the Rockies?  I've
  heard both.

U.Mass and Iowa had (have?) assistant coaches from China's national team.  
There must be many more that I don't know of.  With former Soviet
gymnasts flooding into the gymnastics marketplace of coaching, has anyone
other than Bruno Klaus and a few schools taken advantage of the world
politics' effect on our sport? 


Date: Sun, 20 Mar 94 15:43:15 EST
From: ***
Subject: College Scores

>From Amanda's description of the Bama vs. LSU meet, it probably was a great
meet.  That does not change the fact, though, that college scores - at least
on the women's side - have gotten ridiculously inflated. 

Alabama's score averaged out to 9.81.  Considering that they are supposed to
be using FIG rules for bars, beam, and floor, this is hard to accept. We've
already discussed the merits of intl vs. college, so I won't go into that,
but I don't see how the judges can adequately differentiate between the
gymnasts when the scores are so high. 

Any opinions?

That being said, congratulations to Kim Kelly for showing you don't have to
be a waif to be best!



Date: Sun, 20 Mar 94 16:46:10 EST
From: ***
Subject: College Scores

>Considering that they [colleges] are supposed to
be using FIG rules for bars, beam, and floor

I agree completely that college scores are too high, but I'd like to point
out that NCAA competition isn't using FIG rules (entirely) on any event.  The
base score is a 9.6, not a 9.4, and a number of moves haven't been devalued,
notably double backs on floor and layout step-outs on beam which are still
D's, and double flyaways on bars, which are still C.

>I don't see how the judges can adequately differentiate between the
gymnasts when the scores are so high.

They can't, but in college, differentiating between gymnasts is secondary to
differentiating between teams (I'm just saying that's the way it is, not that
something shouldn't be done to make differentiating between gymnasts

: )


Date: Sun, 20 Mar 94 17:22:26 EST
From: ***
Subject: College Scores

To All:
    College scores are way too high, I agree. I think the coaches association
did themselves a bad thing when they kept the starting value at 9.6 and kept
layouts on beam a "D." I didn't have that much of a problem with them keeping
the old vault values, because I think vaults are a different beast in
college, where full-grown women are throwing them.
   But the biggest problem caused by all of this is that the gymnasts
throwing the most difficult routines in the country aren't getting credit.
There are gymnasts who are throwing a simple full-twist in their last floor
pass and getting a 9.8. That's baloney. In my book, I'd never give higher
than a 9.6 if the routine was absolutely perfect.
   Unfortunately, though, the rules allow for those high scores. I wish the
coaches would vote for a higher-competition set of rules to help
differentiate between the mediocre and above-average gymnasts.
                                                              --- Ron in Fla.


Date: Sun, 20 Mar 94 22:02:29 EST
From: ***
Subject: College Scores

>They can't, but in college, differentiating between gymnasts is secondary to
differentiating between teams

I understand what you are trying to say, but I don't think you can ACCURATELY
differentiate between teams without differentiating between individuals,
particularly in this day and age when team scores are so close.



Date: Mon, 21 Mar 94 14:06:36 GMT
From: ***
Subject: Country Hopping

I originally thought of the question because of whats been
happening with Americas favourite ice skater Tonya Harding
for those that don't know she had to resign from the US skating
federation which stops her from competing in the Olympics
and the worlds.

Judging by whats been happening in this particular case
its not within the realms of make believe that if she
really really wanted to she could leave America, go someplace
else join the new skating federation and compete again.
Which would probably cause immense embarassment to all those

Now I assumed the reason she was made to leave the federation
was to stop her from competing again, so I thought if a similar
case arose in the gymnastics world which it might one day
(hopefully not though!!!!) would it be possible at all to get
away with it.

I imagine that there would probably be a lot of protests made
to the FIG but if the rules dont specifically stop you from
resigning from one federation and joining another, there wouldnt
be anything they could do about it. Or is there ?

Now if the gymnast in question had been kicked out instead of
resigning from the USAG would that change the position of it all.

Certainly from what people have been saying so far it appears that if
you wanted to do it you could do it and nobody could stop you.



Date: Sun, 20 Mar 94 15:47:17 EST
From: ***
Subject: Flags

The 1993-1994 Women's Program Rules and Policies of the USGF notes in SECTION
III paragraph 3b notes that a gymnast must be a citizen of the U.S. to be
considered eligible to compete for any U.S. club or team in a USGF sanctioned

Further, I spoke to a friend of mine who is on the Technical Committee of the
FIG, and he confirms that in order to compete FOR a country, you must be a
citizen of that country, regardless of where you train.



Date: Sun, 20 Mar 94 15:35:16 EST
From: ***
Subject: Floor Music

Totally agree--we should definitely make an effort to credit composers.

I have never seen credit given at the cluv level.

We are hosting a USGF-sanctioned meet next month, and I have just sent a note
to the person doing the program to mention composers whenever possible.
Unfortunately, I think so few gymnasts are conscious of who perfomed their
floor music, much less who wrote it, that it is like spitting into a

I would suggest that we should get together and press the USGF to establish a
standard, perhaps starting with Elite and gradually working down so that
eventually EVERYBODY will have to give credit.

In all honesty, I am sure if music publishers wanted to cause a ruckus, they
have every legal right to demand credit. I think they haven't because it
would look like a bunch of industry fat-cats jumping down the thoats of
innocent little kids.

We as gymnastics professionals, though, should give credit where credit is
due. After all, everytime a new move is used in international competition,
the competitor gets the credit, no?



Date: Sun, 20 Mar 94 16:55:34 EST
From: ***
Subject: Floor Music

David's right - I have never seen credit given at club meets, nor can I
imagine credit ever being given at club meets. As everyone knows, club meets
are usually 4-ring circuses and the announcer usually just talks in between
rotations. I think it would be very distracting to mention floor music every
two minutes on top of everything else that's going on.
And as the person who does the program at all our meets, I would find it a
real pain to have to add floor music to the program - we barely get all the
names in time to get the program out in time for the meet as it is.  I agree
that so few gymnasts know who wrote,published, performed their music - it's
probably a mute point anyway (I don't even know who wrote Sara's music!) All
we know is the studio that put it together. I think this could only work at
a high level competition - where there is only one event going on at a time.
Since we're hosting a national meet in May, I'll mention it as something that
might be nice during floor finals  - where we'd only need to get 10 answers...
but definitely not as part of the program where I'd need 224 answers.



Date: Sun, 20 Mar 94 22:29:02 EST
From: ***
Subject: Georgia Coaches' Salary

To All:
    This just in.
    Georgia Head Coach Suzanne Yoculan settled her pending lawsuit before she
filed it.
    She is now the highest-paid gymnastics coach in the country. Her salary
went from $47,000 to $80,000. And her assistant coach, Doug McAvinn,
considered the country's best assistant coach, went from $23,000 to $41,000.
    By comparison, Florida's Judi Avener, the 2nd-highest paid coach, gets
$50,000, and her assistant coach, Brad Wunderlich, the 2nd-highest paid
assistant coach, gets $30,000.
--- Ron in Fla.


Date: Mon, 21 Mar 94 09:19:14 EST
From: ***
Subject: Georgia Coaches' Salary

Since the issue was that women coaches are paid less than male counterparts,
does anyone:
1)  Have figures on what male head coaches at Georgia make?
2)  Know how the assistant coach, being male, had a claim?

-- Gimnasta


Date: Sat, 19 Mar 94 17:44:10 EST
From: ***
Subject: Georgia Coach Sues

To All:
  Suzanne Yoculan, Georgia's women's gymnastics head coach, has sued the
university on gender-equity grounds, saying she's not paid enough.
  She reportedly has been offered $72,000, up from her previous salary of
around $40,000 but is still holding out.
  Apparently, she is being paid less than the male coaches of sports that
aren't even making money. Women's gymnastics at Georgia is the second-largest
sport when it comes to attendance at each competition. She also sued for her
assistant coach, Doug McAvinn -- considered the best assistant coach in the
country -- to make more money.
  McAvinn makes around $20,000 annually.
  If you want a comparison of salaries, look at the University of Florida,
where head gymnastics coach Judi Avener makes $50,000 annually (the highest
paid coach in the country) and her assistant coach, Brad Wunderlich,
considered the country's second-best assistant, makes $30,000 (the
highest-paid assistant coach in the country).
  Yoculan reportedly is holding out for more than just salary. She's pushing
for other gender equity issues involving other women's sports.
                                                       --- Ron in Fla.


Date: Sat, 19 Mar 94 20:21:20 EST
From: ***
Subject: Georgia Coach Sues

>  Suzanne Yoculan, Georgia's women's gymnastics head coach, has sued the
university on gender-equity grounds, saying she's not paid enough.

Good for you, Suzanne!

Also, does anyone know whatever happened to Katalin and Gabor Deli? They were
stripped (no pun intended) of their jobs as U of Minn coaches in 92? for an
incident regarding an explicit videotape.


Date: Sun, 20 Mar 1994 20:25:32 -0500 (EST)
From: ***
Subject: New Member!

Hello!  My name is Tasha and I have been trying to get onto
GYMN for at least four months! 

I have followed women's gymnastics seriously since 1984 Olympic Trial and
posses a video library from the '84 Olympics to the present (with the
exception of 1985-1987).  Some of my favorite gymnasts include Daniela
Silvas, Natalia Lachenova, Tatiana Liskenko, and Shannon Miller.  My
favorite gymnast of all time is Oksana Omelianchik who was incredible!

In 1992 I discovered *P provided a bulletin board to discuss gymnastics.
I was very excited about this, because at that time I did not know anyone
who appreciated the sport as much as I did.  I developed my own board
called "Gymnastics Fanatics" and tried to discuss different athletes, rules
and controversies affecting the gymnastics world.  Unfortunately, the
average age on *P was about 12 and the notes posted did not provide
enough information (or stimulating connversation).  The best thing about
*P was that I met someone who I could talk seriously about gymnastics.
He turned me onto GYMN (his name is Dennis Albaijes) and has been trying
to get used to the internet. 

I look forward to discussing all kinds of things affecting the world of
gymnastics.  Until then...   Tasha


Date: Sat, 19 Mar 94 20:41:27 EST
From: ***
Subject: Sorry

Just wanted to say that I think my comments on the Prodigy BB came across as
a put-down of 12-year-olds and I'm sorry about that.  I didn't mean to say
that there's anything wrong with the content of many posts there, just that
they might not be as interesting to older folks as to younger.

-- Gimnasta


Date: Sun, 20 Mar 94 17:17:01 EST
From: ***
Subject: UF-LSU

To All:
  I only have sketchy details, but the University of Florida's women's
gymnastics team defeated Penn State in Pennsylvania, 193.95 to 193.00.
  This was both the Gators' and the Lions' highest scores of the year. This
is particularly impressive for Florida, because they scored the 193.95 on the
road. As of late, Florida had been folding on the road. (Florida did count
two falls.)
   Former American Twister and now Gator Kristen Guise won the all-around
with a 39.375.
-- Ron in Florida


Date: Sat, 19 Mar 94 12:07:41 PST
From: ***
Subject: worldcup 94

Our head coach is going to be a judge at the WorldCup in Brisbane next month.
Anyone interested in paraphenalia (t-shirts, programs, etc.)?


Date: Sat, 19 Mar 94 17:54:56 EST
From: ***
Subject: worldcup 94

FYI: It's not the World Cup, which has been eliminated, it's the WORLD



End of gymn Digest