gymn
Digest
Fri, 20 May 94 Volume 2 :
Issue 127
Today's Topics:
Arkaev interview
Letter from Oksana's mother (2 msgs)
Likes and Dislikes (2 msgs)
Photography @ Meets (5 msgs)
Rhythmic Europeans (2 msgs)
Scherbo learns to water-ski (2 msgs)
Trivia Answers - #14 (2 msgs)
Trivia Questions - #14 (2 msgs)
Worlds'94 (6 msgs)
This is a digest of the gymn@athena.mit.edu
mailing list.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 19 May 94 22:05:31 EDT
From: ***@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Subject:
Arkaev interview
Here is the Arkaev interview:
THE HORSE, THE BEAM AND A FREE BREEZE
Leonid Arkaev: Russian Gymnastics Is Not
Dying
(By Oksana Tonkacheyeva, Moskovskaya
pravda, 3-22-94)
For all of last year,
the world of Russian gymnastics was
living in
expectation: Would there or would there not be a
resolution
of the conflict between Leonid Arkaev, president
of
the Gymnastics Federation and senior coach of
the men's national
team, and Dmitry Bilozerchev, Olympic champion and creator of the
TESS
team, which the leading CIS gymnasts had joined? The
athletes
went over to "Bilo" to earn money by
participating in
commercial tournaments and
exhibitions, but without stopping
competing for
their national teams. The Russian Federation
stripped
them of this possibility. It all ended rather
unexpectedly.
The "team of Olympic champions" fell apart. The
outcome: The most experienced Russian gymnasts - Olympic
champion
Aleksei Voropaev
returned to the national team at Round Lake, and
two-time
Olympic champion Sergei Kharkov wants to sign a contract
with
some club in Germany and continue competing for the Russian
national team. Nikolai Andrianov,
a TESS coach, has returned to
the school in
Vladimir where he trained, and Aleksandr
Aleksandrov, also a TESS coach, is unemployed...
Question. - Leonid Yakovlevich, what is happening in Russian
gymnastics today? Is it really doomed to die out along with
many
other types of sport?
Leonid Arkaev - That is absolutely not true. Just look at
last year. How did we perform? At the World Championships we
had
a gold, a silver and a bronze. We hold the
European Cups in both
the men's and women's
categories. The winners were Dmitry
Karbonenko and Oksana Fabrichnova.
We hosted the "Stars of the
World" tournament, and it wasn't any
worse than in previous
years. I would go as far as
saying that the prestige of Russian
gymnastics has
even increased. I repeat, specifically Russian
gymnastics.
Two representatives of our country joined the
Technical
Committee of the International Gymnastics Federation.
Russian
gymnastics is not dying. And it won't die in the next few
decades either.
Q. - You speak so
confidently. Does that mean everything is
fine as
far as reserves are concerned?
L.A.
- Precisely. I can see from my experience working at
Round Lake.
Twenty people at most used to train at the center.
Now there are 30. And
the kids are pretty good. We'll see in the
year
2000. Right now I've brought a little girl from Voronezh,
Katya Kamyshnikova. She won't be old enough yet for Atlanta.
But
her time will come in Sydney.
Q. - Where else,
besides Voronezh, do you get pupils?
L.A. - There is a very
good women's gymnastics school in
Yaroslavl. And a good
men's school in Togliatti. There are good
gymnasts
in Komsomolsk-on-Amur, Novosibirsk, Krasnoyarsk,
Belgorod, Vladivostok and,
of course, in Moscow.
Q. - In Moscow are you
referring to the Dynamo school?
L.A. - Yes, mainly it.
I can say especially many things
about the
capital. But not the best, unfortunately. For
instance,
we don't like how the Moscow Federation
operates. It has
distanced itself from living
gymnastics and gotten involved in
commercial
deals. There wasn't one representative of the Moscow
Federation
at the Russian Championships. Is that really normal?
Q. - Has the
gymnastics life at Round Lake changed in any
way?
L.A. - The food
situation has gotten worse. Food warehouses
aren't
centrally managed anymore. They set prices themselves.
It's hard to keep
up. I don't remember when repairs were last
done.
But that isn't so important. Training goes on just as it
did
before. It's going well. The apparatus and gymnastics
equipment
are the most up-to-date.
Q. - How does the
federation make money?
L.A. - The National Olympic
Committee provides some funds.
They are for holding training camps and
competitions, traveling,
etc. Reebok provides
clothes for us. The organizers of the
Goodwill Games give us very good help
in hard currency.
Especially the American television
company CNN.
Q. - Here's a question that interests many people. What is
the pay of a Russian gymnast?
L.A. - It depends on
their level. We have from level 12 to
level 18. On average, somewhere around 100,000 rubles.
Q. - What our gymnasts
showed two years ago in Barcelona
seemed unreal.
But today the level of difficulty is even higher.
And it seems that the
limit is nowhere in sight.
L.A. - And it won't be
anywhere in sight. Because the
methods are
changing, and the equipment is changing and becoming
more
sophisticated. It's becoming more elastic. Landing mats, for
example, aren't as hard now as they were before. In those
two
years, the level of difficulty of the elements
has increased by
at least 150%. Furthermore, new
rules were introduced after
Barcelona that were a
prototype of our old ones. We held the USSR
Championships
according to them. Before, an exercise was scored
out
of 9.4, two-tenths were added for virtuosity, and the
remaining
tenths - one each - for every group of difficulty. The
highest
score we had was 10 points. Now an exercise is scored out
of 9 points, and for every group of difficulty you add
one-tenth.
To receive 10 points, you have to execute 10 groups of
difficulty. Can you imagine the difference?
Q. - Gymnastics is
becoming more and more difficult and,
consequently,
more and more dangerous. A logical question is, is
this
necessary?
L.A. - I don't agree with you. It isn't dangerous. It is
becoming more pleasant to watch. And more
professional. Before,
for example, a female
gymnast worked on floor exercise three
times a
week. Now, over the course of five days, the girls have
three
training sessions a day. So the inner ear is trained and
all
the fingers and toes are in perfect condition. Then the
possibility
of injuries is minimal.
Q. - But certainly the
incidence of injuries has increased,
hasn't
it?
L.A. -
It's decreased. Why? It's simple; we've begun to do
much
more special, general physical training and to take
precautionary
measures. An element is polished on mats and in
foam
pits. That cannot fail to yield results.
Q. - Tell me, how can
women's gymnastics be pleasant to
watch when tiny
little girls are prancing around on the podium? I
remember
Svetlana Boginskaya and how pleasant it was to
watch
her. She was indeed a
"goddess."
L.A. - I'm in favor of
such gymnastics. And I can encourage
you by saying
that it will be WOMEN'S gymnastics. It has been
decided
that, starting with the next Olympic cycle, girls will be
allowed to compete in senior competitions only if they are
16 or
older.
Q. - You have been
head of the men's national team since
1973, and during all that time it has
been number one. Wasn't it
boring to compete?
After all, often it was clear that we would
win.
L.A. - But how
worthwhile it was! The entire world dreamed
of
beating us, but we didn't let them. Just one mistake, and we
would have been torn to pieces.
Q. - You haven't
avoided the loss of coaches, have you?
L.A. - Unfortunately
not. Many leading coaches have left.
For example, Andrei Radionenko and the coaches of Olympic
champions. Less famous ones have left too, abandoning their
pupils. But now the dark
side of the picture has emerged,
incidentally. It
was advantageous for the foreign federations to
hire
Russians and Ukrainians without any particular
discrimination.
As a result, it's turned out that they've
acquired
a lot of - pardon me for saying so - junk.
Q. - What coaches are
working with you right now?
L.A. - Every athlete
at the training camp definitely has his
or her own
personal coach. There aren't any senior coaches as
such.
There are tumbling coaches and dance coaches.
Q. - And who heads the
women's national team?
L.A. - I head it.
Q. - So it turns out
that YOU are the senior coach. Of both
the women's
and the men's teams. And you're also president of the
Russian
Gymnastics Federation. How are you managing all this?
L.A. - I'm managing
fine; it's very simple. All questions
are in one
pair of hands and are decided quickly. While you were
waiting
for me for half an hour, I held three meetings. Perhaps
it's
for the best - I have a colossal amount of experience.
Q. - Leonid Yakovlevich, why didn't you leave after
Barcelona? You
were invited to Japan and Italy. In fact, the
matter
was almost decided.
L.A. - I dropped by the Federation and found out by chance
that our national team was leaving for a long tour
through
Argentina. It had been organized by Nikolai Andrianov,
my
assistant, whom I had trained to take my place.
He had taken with
him Aleksandr
Aleksandrov, who was then senior coach of the
women's national team. I was outraged, first of all, by the
fact
that none of the athletes' personal coaches
had gone. That meant
there wouldn't be any kind of
training or order over there.
Second, at that time serious preparations for
the Junior European
Championships were being made. They abandoned
everything and
left. I thought that this wouldn't
lead to anything good. I began
to feel sorry for
all the work I'd done and how it might be
ruined.
It's just that I know very well how hard it is to build
this
whole gymnastics home and how easy it is to destroy it. So
then I stayed.
(End of interview.)
Beth
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 19 May 94 18:54:54 EDT
From: ***@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
Subject:
Letter from Oksana's mother
Hi! This is Beth. I got a few responses
from people who were
interested in the letter from
Oksana Omelianchik's mother, so
here's the translation. I mentioned before that it was
"depressing," but that has more to do with Oksana's
mother and
brother than with Oksana. But I do get
the feeling that there is
some tension between
Oksana and her mother. I know they've fought
in
the past... But I feel really bad for her mother and her
brother
Dima, and have been wondering if it would do any good
to
get him to the US somehow and have American
doctors look at his
eyes. If anyone knows of a way
to accomplish this, maybe we can
help out the
family. Just a thought. Anyway, here's the
letter:
"Dear Beth,
I'm sorry that I'm
writing you instead of Oksana.
First, as they say in
our country, we send you a big thank
you for the
fact that you write to Oksana at least every now and
then.
Right now she is working in Belgium. For now she has gone
for 6 months, and after that we'll see. Her husband Dima
graduated from the
military institute last year, but ended up
unemployed;
there were no jobs. He looked until October, and now
he
is working at an institution. Nastya, their daughter,
is now
in Moscow with her other grandmother. She
turned 2 on October 23.
She talks very well and can describe everything and
show you
everything. She loves to dance and can
freely do some acrobatic
elements, but she is very
small in stature - only 1 m. 10 cm. She
takes
after her mother.
Well that's everything briefly; I've told you about Oksana.
If I
said anything wrong, please forgive me. But now it would be
interesting for you to know a little about Oksana's mother
and
about her sister and brother. My name is Lyubov Ivanovna. Still
living with me are my daughter Tanya and son Dima - the very same
Dima whom you read about.
After the Chernobyl accident, sometime
in October,
when Dima was in first grade, he suddenly said,
'I
can't see very well.' At the hospital we went
to they confirmed
that there were some sort of
spots on his right eye. Then they
made the
diagnosis. I've been everywhere these six and a half
years.
Clinics, consultations, trips, first to one city, then to
another. In some places they receive you,
in others they turn you
away.
You cry, because due to your powerlessness you can't do
anything
and can't help in any way. In 1992 we went to Cuba,
where
they received us very well and did an entire medical
consultation.
But unfortunately they couldn't help in any way;
the stern sentence had been passed too late and the time
was
lost. Now he'd be disabled for his entire
life, and he was only
13. But I didn't believe all this. We went home. I
began to
register him as disabled, and again there
were obstacles, first
one and then another, and on
top of that my husband went off and
became a
drunk. He didn't want to bear this whole burden together
with
me. Now we're alone and it's very hard. But what can you do?
You have to
live somehow, to think about the future of these
children,
to live for them. I don't have the finances to go
anywhere,
and unfortunately I don't have close relatives who are
rich
either. You have to deal with everything yourself. Then last
year I decided to ask for help in Japan. I wrote to
Hiroshi
Tsunoda, and immediately described
everything - how and what. And
you know, a couple
of months later I received an invitation to go
to
Japan with my son. Various organizations collected money for
us and transferred it to a fund that took on all the
expenses and
paid for the consultations. We were
there an entire month. But
there, too, they told
us that it was too late. That was it. 1993
passed,
and now it's another year with more problems. Soon it
will
be summer, and I don't know where to go, but every year you
have to take the children somewhere for their health, but
again
there are obstacles. There's no money, and
even though there are
various foundations that can
take you on, they don't want to. You
have to pay
for everything in dollars, and where can you get
them?
Oksana also can't help; she has her own problems. So you go
round and round. Sometimes you feel so helpless, you sit and
cry,
and it seems as if everything is easier, but
not completely. I'd
leave, but where? It's like
the world has been divided into
little squares, as
we have been since perestroika. Everyone is
out
for himself. People have become deaf to others' pain and
grief.
Or maybe it only seems that way to me, that it's hard,
that
I'm always alone. Well, I've told you a little and I feel
better. After all, I'm alone and there's not even anyone to
tell
my pain and difficulties to. Please, if I
said anything wrong,
I'm very sorry. If you want to write, please do. I
will answer
with pleasure.
Dima
is in 8th grade at a regular secondary school. Tanya is
in
5th grade and she also does sports acrobatics, but she hasn't
had the same successes as Oksana did. Although at the end
of
March she'll have competitions and she should become a Master of
Sport.
But acrobatics is not gymnastics, and people don't know
much
about it. But it is such a beautiful sport. It combines
dance
and athletic elements. All of that together is very
beautiful.
I've already written a lot, and you're probably tired
of
reading. So I'll close. Goodbye.
Write - and if you're
going to be in Moscow [I think she
meant to say
Kiev], come by to visit us; we would be very glad.
Sincerely,
Lyubov Iv.
P.S.
When Oksana comes, she'll send you photos."
Any comments?
Beth
P.S.
I checked with my boss to see if posting the Arkaev
interview would be a violation of copyright, and he said
no,
since I did the translation and I haven't
copyrighted it! So I
will try to send it later
tonight (I'm about to go out now).
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 19 May 94 23:06:54 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Letter from
Oksana's mother
Thanks for posting that letter.
It's kind of
hard to have a disability rights movement in a place that
doesn't have much by way of resources. It's too bad that so much as they
could find was used in a way that ended up not helping
rather than on getting
him whatever *would* enable
him to have the same opportunities as the other
kids. In a place where opportunities are
scarce, disabled people are the
last to get
them. At least he's in regular
school rather than locked up in
some
institution.
> have been wondering if it
would do any good to
get him to the US somehow and
have American doctors look at his
>eyes.
The
impression I get from the letter is that it would probably not do much
good. As I
suggested above, it would probably do much more good to see what
stuff would be useful to him rather than continue to use up
resources on what
appears to be a wild goose
chase.
Just my $0.02
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 19 May 94 15:50:47 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Likes and
Dislikes
> enjoyed the impressions of
Worlds, but I have one gripe (to all of >Gymn
b/c fan attitudes and behavior is an interesting
topic): IMHO, >the way she
talks about Dawes is nothing short of disgusting. I >don't like Dawes much
as a gymnast either, and I get upset about >her getting
undeserved scores,
but I
>don't believe in wishing that people fall or in being happy
that they >do
and making fun of them for being
upset when they do. How can
>anybody be
happy to
see someone mess up on one of the most >important days of her life
she's
>worked for so
hard? And it's not far from that to
wishing somebody >gets
hurt.
I think
that everyone should just calm down a bit...she said she didn't like
Dawes...big deal. Everyone has their
preferances and not everyone else will
agree with them. You should hear ME!!!! I am truly evil sometimes
(well most
of the time). I often hope that people
"fall" because it's the only way that
the
more deserving person (in my eyes) in this topsy turvey oddly judged
sport will
win. Of course I don't want to see anyone hurt (Okay so when I
wish for Keswick to fall he always does but you can hardly
blame the fact
that Scott's a total clutz on me now can you?). I wouldn't necessarily want
anyone to hear the things I say to myself when I'm taking pictures (esp.
young children as every other word tends to be f**k I missed
that or s**t
why
don't they wait 'til they're in focus).
"Gymn" will cease to be a fun
place to be if we can only say "happy" things and
think "happy" thoughts for
fear of
offending someone out there. So many other boards and forums turn
into shouting matches and nit picking over the smallest
thing. Most have at
least five posts a day that go
something like this "You're stupid"..."Go to
Hell"..."Get
a Life"...very enlightening. We are very good in comaprision
by
not fighting much at all, we also have few uselsess posts (mine of course not
included).
Everyone should be able to hold their own opinion and
express it
most any way they want - sending Scherbo
death threats is probably out
(though in that
case, at least for Luan, it would only be turnabout is fair
play) as is recreational knee clubbing but otherwise...that
is the point of
this service - to express
ourselves...right? If we all wanted
someone to
agree with we could just sit around at
home and mutter to ourselves (and
no
I don't do that...much). :
-)
Susan
------------------------------
Date: Thu,
19 May 94 23:07:23 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Likes and
Dislikes
>.she said she didn't like
Dawes...big deal. Everyone has their preferances
and not everyone >else will
agree with them.
The message I wrote was not *at all* about liking or disliking Dawes
or
anyone else. I wasn't at all saying that Michelle
can't dislike Dawes if she
feels like it, and I
even added that I don't like her much myself (you even
quoted
that part).
>You should hear ME!!!!
We haven't? :)
The
msg *was* about my opinion
concerning wishing that others fall (I added
that
the next step was wishing that someone get hurt, not that I actually
thought Michelle wished any such thing). I think wishing people fall is
unsportsmanlike (or some as yet uninvented,
non-unwieldy [= wieldy? :)]
gender-neutral
word). It's not that I haven't ever
felt relieved when
someone who I didn't think
deserved to win but was about to
anyway fell or
messed up in some way. I just don't think that it's the most
praiseworthy of
sentiments, let alone actually
hoping it happens (which I've caught myself
doing
as well, and I think it's awful anyway).
>Everyone should be able
to hold their own opinion and express it
most any way they want
And I am perfectly entitled
to express my opinion on the issue of wishing
that
gymnasts fall or otherwise screw up (or being happy about it or making
fun of them).
>If we all wanted someone to
agree with we could just sit around at home and mutter
to ourselves
If that's
what you thought I wanted, you're dead wrong.
-- gimnasta
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 19 May 1994 18:08:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: ***@leland.Stanford.EDU
Subject:
Photography @ Meets
Okay, folks.
You've struck a nerve here, and I have to speak up!
On the
subject of photographers at a sporting event
(gymnastics
in particular)
(sorry, I lost gimnasta's
original post)
Sherwin says:
Another point Gimnasta made was the taking of photos. I probably have
to
disagree with her here (I hope this doesn't
start a major argument!). The
gymnasts have to put
up with public attention since they are in the public
eye,
and the taking of photos are hardly offensive.
...
Look how
well someone like Milosovici dealt
with these situations, e.g. during the final
part
of the AA, she failed to win the title and a cameraman was sticking the
camera up her nose. She was clearly very annoyed about not
winning at the time,
but she just simply sat there
and ignored the guy. I guess one of the things
the
gymnasts learn, especially in major international competitions, is to
cope with pressures from the media and the public. One will
have to accept
it's a matter of life if one wants
to be an international star.
Clive adds:
I happen to agree
with Sherwin on this its basically
tough luck if
you dont like having your photo taken
in a public arena, its part and parcel of being
an international athlete.
To which gimnasta adds:
If I remember correctly, she snuck
into a closed practice session, so it
wasn't
exactly public. If it were the meet
(or even an open practice
session) it would be
different. But I guess what I
really mean is, she might
not be *obligated* to
stop, but I personally would stop if the athlete were
so
annoyed at me, just as a matter of courtesy. I don't like annoying people
(especially if I've already gotten a few; the way she said it
implied they
were annoyed b/c she'd been taking so
many).
At which point Sherwin adds:
I forgot actually to mention that
there were official photographer there
taking pictures of the gymnasts too so are you saying the
photographers
can take as many photos as they can
since its their job but someone like
Michelle can't because she's only a
fan?
<added description of Michelle taking
photos next to pro>
(I'm sorry to do all of this quoting, but I
don't want to misrepresent
anything someone else
said as my own.)
Now, to finally add some original
text.
Comparing a professional, credentialed photographer to a
fan who snuck
into a closed training session is
like comparing apples to salamanders.
The photographer is there to do
his/her job and has been authorized
by the
sponsor/venue/organization to take photographs.
The fan is there only to
serve him/herself and has _NO_ business
taking
photos if these photos in any way affect the goings-on.
A photojournalist's
job is to provide a historical record of
what
happened and to do his/her best to avoid being a participant
in the events.
In a situation such as this, even as a credentialed
photographer, I would stop taking pictures of someone
waiting for
an event who had become visibly
annoyed. This would not carry
over
to competition, and would probably not even
carry over to actual
training, since my job would
be to document the events and training.
I would still do my best not to
affect performances (i.e. no
straight-on eye level
shots on vault).
As for sticking a camera in someone's face after
losing the AA title,
that's something I personally
would shy away from, though I do feel that
a
credentialed photographer has an obligation to capture this moment
to convey it to those not present. A non-credentialed photographer
would have no such right.
My basic point is that,
while a credentialed photographer has the
right
and even the obligation to record what happens during a meet,
a spectator with a camera has no such inherent right. Don't get me
wrong--I
go to plenty of events with the intention of taking photos
from the stands.
However, that doesn't mean that I have the _right_
to do so. The
event organizers, at least in the U.S., have the right
to
prevent me from taking photos. IMO,
the athlete should at least
have such a moral
right. If the athlete is affected,
then the whole
competition is affected, all so
that I can get some nice pictures?
That's not a fair trade-off!
Yes,
the athlete _should_ be able to handle the pressure of having
someone photograph him/her, but that extends only to media photogs
who are working
without flash. If she/he is annoyed
by a spectator's
camera, especially one of those
pesky point-and-shoots with an
automatic flash,
that spectator should stop immediately.
(BTW, lest
you think me elitist, I own a
pesky point-and-shoot, and it has
its place. Photographing a gymnastics meet from the
stands is not
the place.)
So, in answer
to Sherwin's question: Yes. Since
it is the job a media
photographer to relate the
meet to those not present, she/he is free to
photograph
as much as he/she needs to in order to fulfill this obligation,
while obeying photojournalism's written (by A.P., etc.) or
unwritten
code of ethics. The fan has no such privilege.
Also,
to clarify: While this may have been
held in a
public arena, it was not a public event--you had to buy
a
ticket to attend, and with this ticket you assumed certain
responsibilities.
The gymnast also assumed certain responsibilities
by
agreeing to compete but, IMO, any responsibility to be the subject
of photos is outweighed by the spectator's responsibility to
do just
that: spectate without affecting the
performances.
Wow! This is a long post...sorry, but as a sometimes
press photographer,
I felt the need to differentiate between the
obligations of a press
photographer versus the
rights (or lack thereof) of a spectator
with a
camera. I hope I have made my point
clearly enough without
writing an entire thesis on
the subject. ;)
I would be interested in hearing Nancy's opinions on
the subject,
either by e-mail or on this
list. For anyone who may not know,
she
somehow manages to both report on a meet _and_
get great action photos
for _International
Gymnast_.
I guess maybe I'm feeding that major argument...
Well,
feel free to reply to me--or flame me, if you wish :) and I
can summarize.
Maybe you can even change my mind...
Go to it, Susan! ;) You must have some opinion on this
subject!
-Patrick
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 19 May 94 23:32:46 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Photography @
Meets
>Go to it, Susan! ;)
You must have some opinion on this subject!
Are you saying you
think me mouthy?...I'm shocked and amazed :-) But if
youreally
wanna' hear what I have to say...
Anyway,
I am also a "sometimes" photographer and get horribly annoyed
with
the dumbass average joe
who clicks away incessantly with his/her 35mm point
and
shoot thinking they're gonna' get a decent shot (you
will really get
teeny tiny dots of poeple that look 70 miles away) and using their flash
even
though it's puny little light only covers about
a 3 foot radius.
On the other hand I've snuck into plenty of training
sessions and shot
away...Misutin
was offended that I was taking pictures of his butt (I have a
collection okay?) but that didn't
stop me (he kept trying to stop and smile
like ...
"If I pose for her maybe she'll go away"). I think that as long
as
you the spectator doesn't talk or yell at the
gymnasts to get their attention
(and I've seen
that) or use a flash then there's nothing wrong at all with
taking pictures. The athletes are used to it (or they should
be) and if all
you're doing is clicking away
(Don't jump in front of them or pop off
flashblubs in
their face...Okay Debbie but I only did that once and it was
Dima and I was hysterical with glee) that shouldn't bother
anyone. The TV
cameramen that lay down on their
backs to shot up into the crying gymnast's
faces
or run along with them down the vault runway are more annoying. My
theory is if you're in the stands minding your own business
you're not really
bothering them.
Now
after a meet if you get to go "backstage" don't take anyone's picture
without their permission...when you're standing 2 feet away
from someone
popping off flashes in their face...
well that's just rude. Most will say yes
(with the
possible exception of Vitali..and
he's never turned me down...no
double entendre
intended) and it's just a nice courtesy to respect...most
will even pose with you if you so desire and give you an
autograph to boot.
Basically it's just common sense and common
courtesy as far as I'm concerned.
Susan
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 20 May 94 1:28:06 PDT
From: ***@cisco.com
Subject: Photography @
Meets
>>I
forgot actually to mention that there were official
photographer there
Comparing a professional,
credentialed photographer to a fan who snuck
into
a closed training session is like comparing apples to salamanders.
Actually,
we're talking "press photographers" here. Remember that it is the
press's job to be complete jerks, under the umbrella of the
public's "right
to know". A "real person" should never
be even close to as rude as the most
refined
reporter!
Miss "Chops" Manners.
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 20 May 94 10:32:16 BST
From: ***@axion.bt.co.uk
Subject:
Photography @ Meets
>I am also a "sometimes" photographer
and get horribly
>annoyed with the dumbass
average joe who clicks away
>incessantly with his/her 35mm point and shoot thinking
>they're gonna' get a decent shot
(you will really get
>teeny tiny dots of poeple that look 70 miles away) and
>using their flash even though it's puny little light
>only covers about a 3 foot radius (if that).
If I
got a quid every time I saw someone using a 35mm with
average
to slow shutter speeds trying to photograph a sports
car
travelling past at 200mph I would be very rich by now.
The point is
though average joe is
probably very happy with
what they get and has no
desire to spend alot of money to
get decent camera equipment.
The other thing is
that the flash dont work if your
sitting in a stand and the thing you want to take is
about over 25ft away the flash is then only going to
mess up your picture. Especially with those automatic
exposure cameras which react to light levels.
The best
thing to do is to turn the flash off.
Clive
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 20 May 94 12:55:12 BST
From: ***@ic.ac.uk
Subject: Photography @
Meets
Just like to say Michelle didn't use a flash when she took those
photos and
she was just sitting quietly in the
stands at the time. Although she didn't
say, she
probably did stop (or at least not take as many) taking photos of
the gymnasts who were annoyed with her.
Mind you...
she sent me some of those photos and they do look rather good...
Sherwin
:)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 May 94
10:43:02 BST
From: ***@ic.ac.uk
Subject: Rhythmic Europeans
First
of all, thanks all in replying to my Worlds articles. They generates
a lot of, hmm, 'interesting' comments. Anyway now for a
change of subject
(from me anyway). The European
Rhythmic Championships are going to be on
26-29 May and EuroSport again are showing extensive coverage of it (Gaw knows
how many hours this
time, I lost count!). Are there anybody interested
out
there? I mean, there
hasn't been a lot of mails about rhythmic around lately.
I can do another
'impressions' on it from what I see on TV (like I did for
artistic Europeans). Any comments?
Sherwin :) ~ Keep Smiling ~ :)
------------------------------
Date:
Fri, 20 May 94 11:05:40 BST
From: ***@axion.bt.co.uk
Subject: Rhythmic
Europeans
>The European Rhythmic Championships are going to be on
>26-29 May and EuroSport again are showing
extensive
>coverage of it (Gaw
knows how many hours this time,
>I lost count!).
If memory
serves me correctly theres alot
of it,
quite alot of it infact, but dont forget on the
same weekend Sky Sports are showing two hours of
NCAA regionals.
I did notice the month of June looks a bit thin
on the
ground for coverage though they have only
got the Mens
European Championship live.
Clive.
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 19 May 94 13:24:28 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Scherbo learns to water-ski
We all know that
newspapers often do somewhat bizarre "human interest"
stories. Well,
the Arizona Republic takes the cake, I think, for its latest
entry in the "Oh isn't Scherbo
cute?" game.
The headline for the story is "Shhh! Don't
tell folks in Belarus." This
is
next to a fairly large photo of Scherbo looking like he's seen a ghost,
dressed in a speedo and life vest, sitting on the edge of a
boat. "World's
top male gymnast skis Saguaro Lake: Gymnast Vitaly Scherbo already has
second
thoughts about water-skiing. His doubts
gain no sympathy from friends Debbie
Wehr and Pam
Murphy [sitting next to him, smiling]." (Btw, Scherbo
has
incredibly *white* legs. His upper body is a bit tan. Yes, I've studied the
picture closely.
<wink>) There is a second smaller picture of Scherbo on
water-skis, hanging
on for dear life, dipped back about 45 degrees away from
the
camera, with the caption "In his second attempt, the Olympic gymnast
manages to stand up on the skis, briefly, before losing his
balance and
receiving a cold dunking." Oh, and yes, the continuation of the
story is
under the headline "Shhh! Gymnast
makes quiet debut on water skis."
Then
there is a third picture of Scherbo coming up for air with the caption
"Novice
water skier Vitaly Scherbo
reacts tot he cold of Saguaro Lake after a
slip
deposits him in the drink."
Anyways, here are some mildly
interesting facts from the story.
-This was Scherbo's
first try at water-skiing. "My
coach doesn't know about
it, and my wife doesn't
know about it, either. Stormy
invited me to
water-ski. Maybe I saw it on TV
once. I've wanted to do
this."
-The paper reports that Scherbo
will compete in five events, and lists all of
them
except rings. Hmmm.
-(and yes, I *am* quoting) "Scherbo
never gloats about past accomplishments.
He doesn't even claim to be the
world's top male gymnast, even though it's
true.
'Who told you that?'
he asked, smiling. 'We have a
saying in my
country: "Be simple, and people
will come to you."'"
-after the '96
Games, he will retire from competition, but turn professional.
"I wil not
be finished with gymnastics. I will
do exhibitions, some
entertainment, some shows.
Like Mary Lou Retton and Kurt Thomas. I like to
show
people my gymnastics. How
gymnastics is so beautiful."
-----------------------
Also:
Nadia,
Bart, Miller, and Dimas will perform exhibition at the Challenge.
They mention as competitors: Dawes,
Roethlisberger, and Scherbo. I can't
believe
they don't even mention Ivankov...
Rachele
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 19 May 94 16:35:18 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Scherbo learns to water-ski
Speaking of water
skiing, didn't Brandy Johnson marry one?
Or was he a
windsurfer?
-- gimnasta
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 19 May 94 17:20:21 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Trivia Answers -
#14
The topic is Women's European Championships
1. Who is the
only woman ever to win the European Championships three times?
Nadia
Comaneci
2. Who would have won the European Championship three times
except for a fall
on her final event of her third
Championships?
Svetlana Boguinskaya
3.
Who won the '87 Europeans and why was the victory surprising?
Daniela Silivas. It was
unexpected that a Romanian would win a European
Championship held in
Moscow
4. What veteran
competitor and former European Champion took the silver
medal
at 85 Europeans?
Maxi Gnauck
5. Which non-European country routinely
participates at Europeans?
Israel
6. Name the 4 Women's European Champs since
1975 that have gone on to win
the NEXT World or
Olympic AA
Nadia Comaneci (1975)
Yelena Shushunova
(1985)
Svetlana Boguinskaya (1989)
Tatiana Gutsu (1992)
7. What 3 athletes have won the
women's AA and all four events in the same
year? Which one of the three did it
twice?
Tourischeva '75, Caslavskaya'65-'67, Boguinskyia '90...Caslavskaya is
the
only one to do
it
twice
8. By what margin
did Natalia Kalinina defeat Henrietta Onodi for the silver
AA medal in
1990?
.001
9.
Who was the USSR's highest AA finisher in the 87 Europeans, but
then
failed to make her country World Championship
team a few months later?
Aleftina Priakhina
10.
Which competitor in 1990 won an event title, therefore having her
country's new anthem played for the first time? Which event
title?
Mirela Pasca,
UB
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 May 1994
17:51:34 -0700 (PDT)
From: ***@leland.Stanford.EDU
Subject: Trivia
Answers - #14
Pardon my ignorance but:
> 8. By what margin did Natalia Kalinina defeat Henrietta Onodi
for the silver
> AA medal in 1990?
>
> .001
Was
this a _real_ victory or was it simply due to the silly custom
in some scoring systems of rounding a score?
>
10. Which competitor in 1990 won an
event title, therefore having her
> country's
new anthem played for the first time? Which event title?
>
> Mirela Pasca, UB
What
country?
-Patrick
------------------------------
***
DoubleAxel@aol.com
Subject: Trivia Questions - #14
The topic is
Women's European Championships
1. Who is the only woman ever to win
the European Championships three times?
2. Who would have won the
European Championship three times except for a fall
on
her final event of her third Championships?
3. Who won the '87
Europeans and why was the victory surprising?
4. What veteran competitor and former
European Champion took the silver
medal at 85
Europeans?
5. Which
non-European country routinely participates at Europeans?
6. Name the 4 Women's European Champs since
1975 that have gone on to win
the NEXT World or
Olympic AA
7. What 3 athletes have won the women's AA and all four
events in the same
year? Which one of the three did it
twice?
8. By what margin
did Natalia Kalinina defeat Henrietta Onodi for the silver
AA medal in
1990?
9. Who was
the USSR's highest AA finisher in the 87 Europeans, but then
failed to make her country World Championship team a few
months later?
10. Which
competitor in 1990 won an event title, therefore having her
country's new anthem played for the first time? Which event
title?
As there is no possible way I could have thought up 10
questions this good
myself, I would like to thank
Susan, Nancy, Cara, and Gimnasta for their
contributions to this Trivia Set!
Answers will be
posted tommorrow.
Mara
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 19 May 94 10:51:39 BST
From: ***@axion.bt.co.uk
Subject: Trivia
Questions - #14
>5.
Which non-European country routinely participates
at
Europeans?
Ah, now the answer to this question could be
interesting,
what do you define as being
non-European. Israel is considered
part of Europe
strange as though that may seem.
Clive
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 19 May 94 11:47:24 BST
From: ***@ic.ac.uk
Subject: Worlds'94
Thanks
all for replying to my posts. It's nice to hear there are people out
there that read such long posts and it all makes typing it
out worthwhile.
I agree that Michelle was a bit mean about Dawes but
I'm sure she didn't mean
to be nasty. I mean,
nobody in the world would want any gymnasts (or in
general
any sportsperson) to get injured, etc. while doing their sports. I
guess it's just kind of like, say, in a football match you
really want your
team to win, and so you hope your
opposition will lose. In gymastics most
people don't support just one person, but they have
preferences that who they
would like to win. I
guess Michelle just got carried away in the heat of the
moment
because she didn't want Dawes to win the AA, and at the time since
the judges were being very kind to her scoring throughout,
the only way that
she didn't win was if she made a
major error. I mean, Dawes wasn't injured,
she
just messed up her vault. Michelle was happy about that because that meant
Dawes
wouldn't win the AA. That's all.
Another point Gimnasta
made was the taking of photos. I probably have to
disagree
with her here (I hope this doesn't start a major argument!). The
gymnasts have to put up with public attention since they are
in the public
eye, and the taking of photos are
hardly offensive. I mean, they are in the
arena
at the time, it's not a private room or something. Polozkova
and Knizhnik
were
annoyed probably because they were simply inexperienced in this sort of
thing, since they're new to the gym circuit. The others, as
Michelle says, were
more used to it and simply
ignored whoever was taking their photos. Look how
well
someone like Milosovici dealt with these situations,
e.g. during the final
part of the AA, she failed
to win the title and a cameraman was sticking the
camera
up her nose. She was clearly very annoyed about not winning at the time,
but she just simply sat there and ignored the guy. I guess
one of the things
the gymnasts learn, especially
in major international competitions, is to
cope
with pressures from the media and the public. One will have to accept
it's a matter of life if one wants to be an international
star.
Oh and one final thing, Michelle will be starting Uni next January and is
hoping
to join our 'Gymn' group then. So please don't
begrudge her for that
as I'm sure we'll all like
a Gymner from Australia (and a fanatic one at
that!)
Sherwin (trying to defend Michelle but probably failing
miserably...)
P.S. Hope I'm not too opinionated. I apologize if I
upset anyone, but remember
that
we're all friends here in 'Gymn'!!!
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 19 May 94 12:28:19 BST
From: ***@axion.bt.co.uk
Subject:
Worlds'94
>I agree that Michelle was a bit mean about Dawes
>but I'm sure she didn't mean to be nasty. I mean,
>nobody in the world would want any gymnasts (or in
>general any sportsperson) to get injured, etc.
>while doing their sports. I guess it's just kind
>of like, say, in a football match you really want your
>team to win, and so you hope your opposition will lose.
I
dont agree with the sentiment but I understand
it,
I guess alot of you havent
heard some of the more
colourful
songs that are sung on football terraces
in
England but there is one where the idea is to
encourage
the home team to 'put the boot in
and
kick the (expletive deleted) in' Now of
course
nobody wants anybody to be actually hurt
by this but
its just one of those things that happens at
football matches. Its all down to
the passion of
the sport. I think someone carried
out a survey
once and asked why do you go to motor
races
and the largest picked answer was 'to see
crashes'
now of course nobody who had been asked
ever wanted
to wish to see anything like what
happened at Imola
but
again its the passion of the sport wanting your
favourite sports star to do the best they can
do.
Before anyone asks and they are bound to ask no I
dont go to motor races to watch
people crash and
injure themselves and I dont go to football matches
to
see opposing team players break their legs,
I actually just enjoy watching
the sport.
>Another point Gimnasta made
was the taking of photos.
>I probably have to disagree with her here (I
hope this
>doesn't start a major argument!).
The gymnasts have to
>put up with public
attention since they are in the public
>eye,
and the taking of photos are hardly offensive.
Actually I was going to
raise this issue with Gimnasta,
I happen to agree
with Sherwin on this its basically
tough luck if
you dont like having your photo taken
in a public arena, its part and parcel of being
an international athlete.
Clive.
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 19 May 94 13:01:20 BST
From: ***@ic.ac.uk
Subject: Worlds'94
Just
to clear my view totally: I do admire the skills that all the gymnasts
are performing out there, whether it's in a local gym or in
the big world
stage, from my favourites
to my least favourites. I don't think anybody
here will argue that all the gymnasts have put a lot of
efforts into
improving the sport and I sincerely
think they are ALL very brave and
should be
congratulated in spending so much time and hard work into doing
gymnastics. I hope you'll join me in our toast
:'BRAVO TO THE GYMNASTS!'.
Sherwin
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 19 May 94 08:53:05 EDT
From: ***@aol.com
Subject: Worlds'94
>Actually
I was going to raise this issue with Gimnasta,
I
happen to agree with Sherwin on this its basically
>tough
luck if you dont like having your photo taken
in a public arena, its part and parcel of being
>an international athlete.
If I remember correctly,
she snuck into a closed practice session, so it
wasn't
exactly public. If it were the meet
(or even an open practice
session) it would be
different. But I guess what I
really mean is, she might
not be *obligated* to
stop, but I personally would stop if the athlete were
so
annoyed at me, just as a matter of courtesy. I don't like annoying people
(especially if I've already gotten a few; the way she said it
implied they
were annoyed b/c she'd been taking so
many).
-- gimnasta
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 19 May 1994 08:56:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: ***@gateway.us.sidwell.edu
Subject:
Worlds'94
> I agree that Michelle was a bit mean about Dawes but
I'm sure she didn't mean
> to be nasty...I
guess Michelle just got carried away in the heat of the
> moment because she didn't want Dawes to win the AA, and at
the time since
> the judges were being very
kind to her scoring throughout, the only way that
> she
didn't win was if she made a major error.
I totally agree with this,
especially the part about getting carried away
in
the heat of the moment. At
Nationals last year, I found myself wishing
that
Shannon Miller would fall or mess up in some other way just because I
was so annoyed with the audience for screaming only for
Shannon and
totally ingoring
really awesome things that other people did on
other
events. I was just carried away by
the heat of the moment.
If Shannon had gotten seriously injured, I would
have felt really bad, and
I think Michelle would have also if the same had
happened to Dawes.
Lisa
------------------------------
Date:
Thu, 19 May 94 16:05:15 BST
From: ***@ic.ac.uk
Subject: Worlds'94
Gimnasta said,
> If I remember correctly, she
snuck into a closed practice session, so it
> wasn't
exactly public. If it were the meet
(or even an open practice
> session) it would
be different. But I guess what I
really mean is, she might
> not be *obligated*
to stop, but I personally would stop if the athlete were
> so annoyed at me, just as a matter of courtesy. I don't like annoying people
> (especially if I've already gotten a few; the way she said it
implied they
> were annoyed b/c she'd been
taking so many).
I forgot
actually to mention that there were official photographer
there
taking pictures of the gymnasts too so are
you saying the photographers
can take as many
photos as they can since its their job but someone like
Michelle can't
because she's only a fan?
I didn't put this following bit in last time
because I didn't think it was
relevant but anyway
here it is (this is during the 'private' training
session):
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
A
few photographers had come into the stadium by then, and the official
photographer of our major newspaper came and sat beside me
(At first I was
scared he'd tell me to leave). But
he was really nice, and asked me who I was
shooting
for, I explained I was just a gym fan and swapped photos with pals
overseas. Then he asked what sort of film I was using etc.
He told me he
knew absolutely nothing about gym,
but was sent to take photos for a 2 page
spread
for Sunday's paper. I was soon telling him who was who, so he could
write it down, and after a while was telling him who to take
photo of! It
was great. At first he was taking
them of Canadians and Japanese but I soon
changed
that! Before the afternoon was out, he taking photos of all my faves,
not simply those with
nice loetards. I told him Mo was performing a
world
first on bars, that Lisenko
was an Olympic Champ, that Piskoun was a World
Champ,
and that Pods was a future star! So he took more pics
of them than
anyone!!! But the best part, was when
an official came by, telling people to
get out of
the corporate boxes (gymnast, coaches, officials and photographers),
but when he came by our box, he just said "Hi
Rob", and left us alone,
thinking I was with
him, cause we were talking!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I
guess Michelle just got carried away with seeing the top gymnasts,
especially it's the first time a World Championships was
being held in the
Southern atmosphere! And she just liked to get as many
good shots in the
bag as she can. Although she
didn't say, but I guess she stopped taking
pictures
of Polozkova when she started to stand behind the Longines board!
Sorry Gimnasta
if I upset you in any way, I take your point of having to have
respect for the gymnasts though.
Please
forgive...
Sherwin
------------------------------
End
of gymn Digest
******************************