gymn Digest                 Wed, 13 Apr 94       Volume 2 : Issue 103

Today's Topics:
                      # of floor tumbling passes
                 Boston to host 96 Trials   (4 msgs)
                         CBC Worlds coverage
                         Foreign competitors
                      Gymn on the silver screen
                            Hello (2 msgs)
                       help defend gymnastics!
                           Vertigo (2 msgs)
                          Worlds info (long)

This is a digest of the mailing list. 


Date: Wed, 13 Apr 94 10:48:30 EDT
From: ***
Subject: # of floor tumbling passes

Sorry I'm a little late on this

>> Just watched the PAC-10s, and have a couple of questions.
>> The commentators said they only require 2 tumbling passes (one in
>> combination) on floor. ???????

>I may be wrong -- please don't hurt me if I am -- but I believe that
the code (even FIG) _requires_ only two passes, but it is difficult
>to get all of the other required elements without a third. Plus, the
judges would probably nit-pick a routine with only two passes
>enough to devalue it.

Patrick is right that the FIG Code requires only 2 "acrobatic series" and
about it being difficult to get everything in w/o a third pass.  It has,
however, been done by Stella Umeh (CAN) (at Birmingham).  An acrobatic series
is defined as a series of three acrobatic elements, one of which is a salto.
Stella did two of those and she did a running layout front full punch front.
That "middle pass" isn't technically an acrobatic series, since it doesn't
have three elements.  As to nit-picking 2-pass routines, I'd say it depends
on what else the routine contains.  Stella's middle pass is really difficult
(a *running* layout front full may actually deserve the D rating).  She made
floor finals.

-- Gimnasta


Date: Tue, 12 Apr 94 16:24:06

From: <***>
Subject: Beginer

    I just thought I'd comment on some of the advice that you've been
    receiving, especially the part about not letting your childs whole
    life be consumed by gymnastics.

Compared to having an attention space slightly shorter than the time between
TV comercials, a consuming passion for gymnastics might not be such a bad
idea.  Especially since gymnastics is a pretty broad sport - it has tie-ins
to dance, music, International politics, anatomy, even physics and fashion.

If your team or school gym is co-ed, gymnastics might even do OK for
your social life once you hit an appropriate age.

Combined with a healthy amount of accademics, someone consumed by
gymnnastics is likely to come out with a more rounded than a lot of
people these days...

On the other hand, I'll emphasize that not everyone will want to work
as hard at gymnastics as might be necessary to reach their "full
potential."   It ought to be possible to say "I'm not willing to give
up weekends/summer vacations/my college fund/good grades/friday
nights/saturday mornings/4 hours a day/etc, even if it will make me
good enough to make the next level/whatever"



Date: Wed, 13 Apr 1994 00:50:53 -0500 (CDT)
From: <***>
Subject: Boston to host 96 Trials

I just read on the AP wire that Boston will be the host of the 1996 US
Olympic Trials.  They beat out San Jose, Seattle, and Nashville.
The men's and women's competition will be June 27-30 at the
non-existent Shawmut Center.  This facility is currently under
construction to replace Boston Garden.  It's scheduled to open in
September of 1995.

The rhythmic trials will be at Wang Center for Performing Arts, a
theater in downtown Boston.

The USAG Congress will be in Boston also, from June 29 to July 1st of

(Robyn, we're all very jealous!)



Date: Wed, 13 Apr 94 09:31:47 -0400
From: ***
Subject: Boston to host 96 Trials 

>The rhythmic trials will be at Wang Center for Performing Arts, a
>theater in downtown Boston.

This should prove pretty interesting.  I have to believe that the stage is big
enough for the 40x40, but aren't those hoops going to get stuck on the overhead
stage lights?  :)  Really though, has anyone ever seen a competition held at
a venue like this?



Date: Wed, 13 Apr 94 09:39:15 EDT
From: <***@MIT.EDU>
Subject: Boston to host 96 Trials

>I just read on the AP wire that Boston will be the host of the 1996 US
>Olympic Trials.  They beat out San Jose, Seattle, and Nashville.

Yay Boston!!

>The rhythmic trials will be at Wang Center for Performing Arts, a
>theater in downtown Boston.

That's where the Boston Ballet performs (among other things).

>(Robyn, we're all very jealous!)



obGymn:  I've seen a bit of gymnastics performed at the Wang Center before --
my brother (a dancer) got us tickets to see 4 pieces which had won a
choreography competition, and one of them was very gymnastics-oriented.
In addition to the men lifting the women through leaps and spins, they also
lifted them through back-tucks, etc.  Also there were some cartwheelesque
things, and at the very end one of the guys did a tumbling pass (something
like round-off flip-flop flip-flop back tuck) -- I was pretty impressed as
most professional dancers (especially the men) don't have any/much gymnastic
training, and of course it was performed without mats (though the dancing
surface is decent for those kinds of things).

Incidentally my brother thought it was crummy choreography (he is a very
good choreographer, and hopes that his career as a dancer will eventually
lead to a career as a choreographer), but I appreciated it :)


Date: Wed, 13 Apr 94 09:53:44 EDT
From: <***@MIT.EDU>
Subject: Boston to host 96 Trials

>>The rhythmic trials will be at Wang Center for Performing Arts, a
>>theater in downtown Boston.

>This should prove pretty interesting.  I have to believe that the stage is big
>enough for the 40x40, but aren't those hoops going to get stuck on the overhea
>stage lights?  :)  Really though, has anyone ever seen a competition held at
>a venue like this?

Everything backstage can be raised an lowered as necessary for the particular
effect needed in that scene.  The ceiling is WAY higher than any gym's, so
there should be no problem there!



Date: Tue, 12 Apr 1994 21:12:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: ***
Subject: CBC Worlds coverage

      Hey, Canada folks!
      Is the CBC covering the Worlds next week? We have a CBC station on our
cable system. Just wondering. Thanks. Please mail me directly...


Date: Wed, 13 Apr 94 10:48:55 EDT
From: ***
Subject: Foreign competitors

>>Federal Funding should not be used to give athletic scholarships period.

>In general, I don't think it is.

>Athletics budgets can be largely met with alumni contributions

Case in point:  Stanford's Athletic Dept. is (or claims to be) entirely
independent of the University ($300,000 they used to get was cut during
budget cuts).  So federal grant $ theoretically ("theoretically" being a key
word) doesn't get used for that.  They survive on alum $$ and football.

As to whether it's ok to use taxpayer $ for scholarships (to non-citizens or
anyone), that's entirely up to the taxpayers.  If the majority feel like
using it for that, so be it.  As to whether I'd be in that majority, hard to
say.  There are benefits to be had by building a good athletics program.  I
might not mind some state money going to that; maybe I'd mind federal money.

-- Gimnasta


Date: Tue, 12 Apr 94 19:11:55 EDT
From: <***@BBN.COM>
Subject: Gymn on the silver screen

If someone else has mentioned this, I apologize for my failing
memory.  Mary Lou Retton has a cameo in the movie
"Naked Gun 33 1/3: The Final Insult," now playing at a theater
near you.  She performs a floor ex pass in an evening gown
(round off, flip-flop, flip-flop, double twist, if memory serves).

Speaking of gymnastics on the silver screen, why do gymnasts
mostly end up in such awful movies (like the
often-funny-for-all-the-wrong-reasons "Gymkata")?



Date: Wed, 13 Apr 1994 07:48:59 -0500 (EST)
From: <***>
Subject: Hello

On Tue, 12 Apr 1994, David Pearlstein wrote:

> Hi Lisa,
> I just read your message on gymn, an I have to know if "" is
> Sidwell Friends School in Washington D.C.  The alma matre of Jair. 
> If I'm right, please tell me what gym you train at.  If I'm wrong, than
> never mind and enjoy the conversations on this mailing list.
> david
Yeah, is the Sidwell Friends School in Washington, D.C., the
alma matre of Jair Lynch.  Actually, a little while ago I was sitting in
the school office and I picked up this bulletin thing that is sent out to
all the families of students and alumni in the school.  On the first page,
there was a story about Jair.  In his last meeting for worship (we're a
Quaker school so every Thursday morning everyone in the high school gets
together and sits in silence, and that's basically meeting for worship,
but there's a little bit more to it) he got up and said (in meeting for
worship, people deliver messages every now and then) that he was sorry
that he had never gotten to perform for his classmates and teachers.  Then
he did a standing back tuck!  I have plans to do that when I'm a senior,
but I still have a long way to go...
Also, my father is dean of faculty and he occupies the office that the
dean of students used to have, so he has a picture of Jair when he was in
ninth grade!  It's the one picture I've seen of Jair when he was actually
smiling!  It's funny, lots of people have asked if Chelsea Clinton goes to
my school, but no one has ever asked about Jair (in my opinion, he's much
more famous).
The gym I train at is the BCC-YMCA, which is just a little gym at a YMCA.
The thing I like about the Y is that it's really laid back.  I mean, we
work, but our coach isn't a slave driver or anything.  We have a lot of
older kids who have left other gyms.



Date: Wed, 13 Apr 94 10:47:12 EDT
From: ***
Subject: Hello

>so he has a picture of Jair when he was in
ninth grade!

On that thread, Jair and I competed in a meet in PR in 1984.  He must have
been about  11.  Years later, we both ended up at Stanford.  I didn't
remember him from '84, but he mentioned he'd been to PR once, so I looked up
my pictures, and there he was.  Really cute, a (practically) baby Jair. : )

-- Gimnasta


Date: Wed, 13 Apr 94 12:32:55 EDT
From: <***@MIT.EDU>
Subject: help defend gymnastics!

Here's a sample of part of a discussion going on on  Perhaps
some people here can add some useful and positive arguments to this

From: (Nola Van Vugt)
Subject: Re: Dance, gymnastics
Date: 12 Apr 1994 19:50:00 GMT
References: <2nl4gj$> <2nnmbk$> <>

In article <> writes:
>My experience (three daughters, now ages 15-20) has been that gymnastics is
>an excellent preparation for other athletic endeavors.  All three
>of them started in gymnastics at age 4 and continued to age 12-15.  All
>three have been fairly successful in softball and volleyball, playing
>at the high school JV and Varsity level.  Gymnastics imparts an awareness
>of body position and teaches them how to fall, to move, and to use the
>whole body to accomplish some movement.

Girls gymnastics also has an injury rate (injuries requiring medical
attention) second only to professional football.  Also, most girls are
considered "over the hill" soon after they reach puberty.  It seems to
me that for a sport to have real value, it should be a "lifetime
fitness" activity.  Soccer, tennis, swimming, dance, bicycling,
softball, basketball, running all are sports that a woman can enjoy
all her life, not just for a few years.

Nol aVan Vugt


Date: Tue, 12 Apr 1994 14:57:48 -0500 (CDT)
From: <***>
Subject: reminder

Hey everyone,

I've had a couple requests to repost Gymn's netiquette guidelines to
the forum, due to the somewhat high traffic lately.  Our goal on Gymn
is always fruitful discussion... while we've had a wonderful amt of
this on Gymn lately, there also seems to be an increase in
"extraneous" posts too.  So, considering that we are about to enter
high season on Gymn (with the NCAA Nationals and Worlds coming up, and
then a whole slew of meets this summer), I thought it would indeed be
a good idea to post the guidelines again.

Basically, just be considerate of other people's mailboxes and
systems, and everything'll be great.  We don't want people to be
inhibited by the following guides; we just ask that you think twice
before issuing that "send" command...


Gymn's netiquette guidelines

-> If your mail is really directed to just one or two individuals,
please use private email instead of posting to the alias.

-> Make sure you have something to add to the discussion. Look at the
subject line: if your post doesn't really add to the discussion of
this topic, then either don't post or start a new topic. If you
include a previous posting and only add "Yeah, that was funny!", or,
"What a good idea!", your post is probably not essential. Also, please
do not digress from the discussion of gymnastics, which is, after all,
the purpose of Gymn.

-> If your mail includes previous postings, please label the
inclusion with the original author. Always sign your posts. However,
excessively long signatures should be avoided.

-> Catch up with a thread before adding to the discussion. Someone may
have made the same observation you have. Mail sometimes comes out of
order, so just do the best you can.

-> In order to keep the forum friendly, we ask that all members
remember be respectful of others' points of view. It is, of course,
all right to disagree with a person's opinion, but attacking them for
holding it will be considered inappropriate in this forum. Similarly,
we hope to be able to keep the "signal-to-noise" ratio high, so PLEASE
AVOID ALL MANNER OF "FLAMING". This includes statements that could be
considered libelous in nature. Please remember that in computer-
mediated communication, clues such as facial expression, body language
and tone of voice are missing, making it easy to misunderstand
intentions and jokes.

-> *DO NOT* post copyrighted articles on Gymn. This includes retyping
something you saw in the newspaper, forwarding articles from a
newswire, etc. You may, however, quote small parts of the article and
post a short summary of the story to Gymn (with proper reference)
according to the "fair use" clause of copyright law.


Date: Tue, 12 Apr 94 14:05:26 PDT
From: ***
Subject: Vertigo

George writes:
> Great movie.  But seriously, anybody out there get dizzy (or used to get
> dizzy) while practicing high bar or uneven bars?  If so, do you get used
> to it?  Is there something that can be done to help get the body used to
> swinging like that?  My impulse is just to swing more, but, since I'm
> sitting on such a valuable gymnastics resource (gymn) I thought I'd ask.
> Might make for a good thread ;^)
> .....
> -George

      Your impulse is correct.  As you do more giants, you become used to
it.  As you start doing different head positions in giants, you'll get
dizzy there too.  One of the important things to do on high bar is practice
full sets of routines frequently, because you don't want to get into a
competition and find yourself dizzy before your dismount.



Date: Tue, 12 Apr 94 16:48:16 PDT
From: <***>
Subject: Vertigo

      But seriously, anybody out there get dizzy (or used to get
    dizzy) while practicing high bar or uneven bars?

Getting dizzy MIGHT mean that you are doing your giants too fast.  Each
giant should nearly pause in a nice handstand on top of the bar.  There can
be a tendancy in beginners never to quite hit that spot, so the giants get
faster and faster until you hit limits imposed by either physics or your



Date: Wed, 13 Apr 94 12:48:13 +1000
From: ***
Subject: Worlds info (long)

Times for the Worlds competition are below.  Please note these are Eastern
Standard Time in Australia.  Also is a list of the countries and no. of
gymnasts they are sending.

Day 1, Tuesday April 19
Qualifying Competition III Apparatus
Times:  10.30 - 12.30
13.30 - 15.30
16.00 - 18.00
19.30 - 21.30

Day 2, Wednesday April 20
Qualifying Competition III Apparatus
Times: 10.30- 12.30
13.30 - 15.30
16.00 - 18.00
19.30 - 21.30

Day 3, Thursday April 21
Competition II, Mens All Around
Times: 13.30 - 15.30
16.00 - 18.00
19.30 - 21.30

Day 4, Friday April 22
Competition II, Women's All Around
Times 13.30 - 15.30
16.00 - 18.00
19.30 - 21.30

Day 5, Saturday April 23
Competition III, Apparatus Finals
Times 19.30 - 22.30

Day 6, Sunday April 24
Competition, Apparatus Finals
Times 14.00 - 17.00

Official Entries
                                MAG                        WAG
Algeria                         5                           -
Allemagne (Germany)             6                           4
Argentina                       4                           3
Armenia                         4                           -
Australia                       6                           4
Austria                         3                           1
Belgium                         4                           4
Belarus                         3                           3
Bolivia                         1                           2
Brazil                          6                           4
Bulgaria                        5                           2
Canada                          6                           4
China                           6                           4
Cyprus                          1                           -
Croatia                         5                           -
Denmark                         2                           2
Czech Republic                  5                           1
El Salvadore                    2                           -
Espagne (Spain)                 2                           3
Etats Unis (USA)                6                           4
Finland                         5                           3
France                          2                           2
Georgia                         2                           2
Great Britian                   3                           3
Greece                          3                           3
Guatemala                       -                           2
Hungary                         3                           3
Indonesia                       3                           -
Israel                          1                           2
Italy                           3                           2
Japan                           6                           3
Kazakhstan                      3                           3
Korea  (PRK)                    1                           1
Korea                           6                           4
Kyrgyzstan                      -                           2
Kuwait                          6                           -
Lithuania                       2                           -
Mexico                          6                           4
Moldavia                        2                           -
Nigeria                         3                           2
Norway                          3                           1
Netherlands                     2                           1
New Zealand                     2                           1
Portugal                        2                           -
Puerto Rico                     6                           4
Romania                         4                           4
Russia                          6                           4
Slovak Republic                 3                           3
Slovenia                        6                           -
Sweden                          2                           1
Switzerland                     2                           -
Chinese Taipei                  4                           1
Turkey                          3                           -
Ukraine                         6                           4

'Sleep is better than medicine'


End of gymn Digest